Standard of evidence has to include actual evidence. Disclosure hasn't occurred until something physical is produced and verified.
*** UAP THREAD ***
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Last: 1 hr ago by Duckhook
Fair. Let's watch for the big podium, which I believe will include Rubio, Radcliffe, and Navy.
If we're talking about a court of law, that's not at all true. Credible testimony, circumstantial evidence, and documentary evidence (files, records, etc), altogether, are more than legally sufficient to secure a conviction.
And we have all of those in abundance here. At this point, beyond a shadow of a doubt.
That said, I totally get that the masses will need physical proof. Craft and bodies will be essential, and obviously *the* key factor in dragging people kicking and screaming over the line from doubt to certainty. There's no denying that.
Still, I genuinely don't understand how someone such as yourself can still be in denial. In fact, the tables have turned so much that *you're* the one now being irrational.
Considering dozens of high-level, highly-credible government officials, with some of the highest clearances granted, are now telling us - publicly, unequivocally - that we are not alone on this planet; that we are, in fact, in possession of non-human craft and bodies, and have been for decades. These individuals are now stating this day after day, as truth, not as speculation. So you either have to believe that they're ALL lying, and ALL part of some kind of massive, highly-coordinated psyop - or - they're telling the truth.
Those are your two choices.
And the latter is starting to become far more improbable than the former.
And we have all of those in abundance here. At this point, beyond a shadow of a doubt.
That said, I totally get that the masses will need physical proof. Craft and bodies will be essential, and obviously *the* key factor in dragging people kicking and screaming over the line from doubt to certainty. There's no denying that.
Still, I genuinely don't understand how someone such as yourself can still be in denial. In fact, the tables have turned so much that *you're* the one now being irrational.
Considering dozens of high-level, highly-credible government officials, with some of the highest clearances granted, are now telling us - publicly, unequivocally - that we are not alone on this planet; that we are, in fact, in possession of non-human craft and bodies, and have been for decades. These individuals are now stating this day after day, as truth, not as speculation. So you either have to believe that they're ALL lying, and ALL part of some kind of massive, highly-coordinated psyop - or - they're telling the truth.
Those are your two choices.
And the latter is starting to become far more improbable than the former.
I mean... in and of itself, this really is basically disclosure.
The Brazilian Defense Minister - and current Brazilian presidential candidate - just confirmed an official government cover-up of a crashed UAP with recovered non-human bodies. An event that was already wildly credible in its own right, based on the plethora of corroborating witness testimony alone.
I just don't understand how someone's immediate reaction to this - and all the other recent governmental confirmations - is to then stick their fingers in their ears and yell "But it's not hard evidence!" over and over.
Sure, technically, that's true. And again, hard evidence *is* crucial.
But good lord, at least have the perspective and wherewithal to admit what's currently unfolding right now, prior to the inevitable release of craft and bodies. Whether it be this year, next year, or five years from now.
The Brazilian Defense Minister - and current Brazilian presidential candidate - just confirmed an official government cover-up of a crashed UAP with recovered non-human bodies. An event that was already wildly credible in its own right, based on the plethora of corroborating witness testimony alone.
I just don't understand how someone's immediate reaction to this - and all the other recent governmental confirmations - is to then stick their fingers in their ears and yell "But it's not hard evidence!" over and over.
Sure, technically, that's true. And again, hard evidence *is* crucial.
But good lord, at least have the perspective and wherewithal to admit what's currently unfolding right now, prior to the inevitable release of craft and bodies. Whether it be this year, next year, or five years from now.
It takes increments for disclosure to occur and grainy videos aren't going to cut it. True disclosure begins with govt officials standing up there and admitting the facts. THIS was step 1.
Any past and present govt official standing up there telling you that they could tell you more if it wasn't for their nda is just grandstanding.
Any past and present govt official standing up there telling you that they could tell you more if it wasn't for their nda is just grandstanding.
Disclosure is a process and our hand may be forced for catastrophic Disclosure. This is happening, in real time. The circumstantial evidence and eye witness testimony is absolutely overwhelming. Enough to get any reader of these words convicted of a major crime.
Presidential podium / crafts / biology I want too, but seriously a threshold can be short of that - especially if you're familiar with the pop meta-physics detailed at length all over this thread. What a time to be alive.
Presidential podium / crafts / biology I want too, but seriously a threshold can be short of that - especially if you're familiar with the pop meta-physics detailed at length all over this thread. What a time to be alive.
BigCityCold said:
Any past and present govt official standing up there telling you that they could tell you more if it wasn't for their nda is just grandstanding.
I disagree completely, but to each his own.
Quote:
If we're talking about a court of law, that's not at all true. Altogether, credible testimony, circumstantial evidence, and documentary evidence (files, records, etc) are more than legally sufficient to secure a conviction.
This is where I remain hung up. Admittedly, I don't follow this topic very closely. I try to keep up with the thread in case there's big news, but otherwise, I mostly just read without trying to inject my personal cynicism.
When it comes to credible testimony, have we heard from any direct witnesses yet beyond craft/UAP observations? (I understand that many military pilots have spoken about what they have personally seen and acknowledge that as reliable.) It's entirely possible that I have missed it, so I promise I am asking earnestly, because my current perception is that a lot of folks are reporting what others have told them. David Grusch is a great example. I find him to be credible, and I think he has interviewed a bunch of people, compared and corroborated their stories, and that he believes them.
So that's where I'm stuck. For the most part, it all remains hearsay from unnamed sources within the government, and it's hard to trust either these days.
Look, pay attention to the Corbell / Michaels video. Illegal medical records release, severe threats, murder. And he actually did explain the "narrow" aspects of coming forward well.
Get out of here with this nda stuff. Legit whistleblowers (and there are liars) risk death.
Get out of here with this nda stuff. Legit whistleblowers (and there are liars) risk death.
Redstone said:
Look, pay attention to the Corbell / Michaels video. Illegal medical records release, severe threats, murder. And he actually did explain the "narrow" aspects of coming forward well.
Get out of here with this nda stuff. Legit whistleblowers (and there are liars) risk death.
And death is very much documented by a lot of people. Yes, the US government went that far to protect that secrecy. More than likely a number of the recent scientist deaths were directly tied to this secret.
THAT is the catastrophic disclosure. None of those congressmen/women flinched when Grusch stated knowing about a number of different types of aliens. Note how they do flinch when talking about the MIC (industrial complex) and contractors. THAT is what they don't want out at all costs.
Going to see "Disclosure Day" on Friday.
I'm actually going to DC with my oldest son next week for a competition he is in. That's 100% going to be on the list to do while there without Mama (She's still warming up to the idea lol).
Alright, Grusch brought us more consilience today.
Sentient "plasma"? Also from the 40s and 50s.
Nordics, greys short and tall, Insectiods, crafts, implanted materials, abductions and breeding, mutilations, missing time, Bigfoot and red clothing and green lights and so much else (missing 411)
Assume liars, disinfo campaigns, CIA nonsense, misidentifications, paranoia and money grabbing
Interesting, isn't it, how the "same" things pop up decade after decade, many hundreds of thousands of people, across continents, across time and environment
Sentient "plasma"? Also from the 40s and 50s.
Nordics, greys short and tall, Insectiods, crafts, implanted materials, abductions and breeding, mutilations, missing time, Bigfoot and red clothing and green lights and so much else (missing 411)
Assume liars, disinfo campaigns, CIA nonsense, misidentifications, paranoia and money grabbing
Interesting, isn't it, how the "same" things pop up decade after decade, many hundreds of thousands of people, across continents, across time and environment
Trevor James Constable told us all about sentient plasmoid life 70 years ago.
— Jordan Crowder (@digijordan) June 9, 2026
He called them ‘Sky Creatures’ and he told us exactly how to photograph them.
UFOlogy is a treadmill in a black hole. https://t.co/Q0hMJ4yPcv pic.twitter.com/ApC4ptfIOf
The more people talk, without ever having anything to prove what they're saying, the less I believe, unfortunately. I've gone up and down with how much belief I have in the topic over the last few years. It's currently very low, as I continue to research each claim. Almost without fail, the claims that I've looked into are debunked. The ones that aren't are simply unprovable in a way that also makes them impossible to debunk. In a case like that, evidence must be presented. I'm not buying into something like this just because some people (who happen to LOVE being on TV) say so.
To say that those of us who still have some doubt are acting irrational is really silly.
These people just love being on tv and love the publicity. Many of them have been caught lying over and over, and many others have never once provided anything other than recycled claims they heard from someone else.
I'm not the irrational one if I happen to need actual evidence before I fully believe. Not a single video that has ever been released has been compelling. If compelling video exists, release it. Until then, it's all talk. It's quite rational to wait for actual evidence before just believing in what are incredibly extraordinary claims.
And I'll repeat for the umpteenth time, I'm on board with the idea of intelligent life. I WANT it to be true. I WANT to believe. But wanting to believe seems to have caused a lot of people to abandon all discernment when it comes to whether and what we *should* believe. Everyone is free to have their own standards for what will convince them. Mine just happen to include something - ANYTHING - tangible and verifiable. As of now, there is precisely zero of that. There is a ton of other really interesting data, which you mentioned, that makes the story worth following. That's why I'm here. It's clearly possible that something is afoot. But intellectual honesty requires being skeptical even if you want something to be true. Not skeptical as in "there's no way," but skeptical as in "let's look at the evidence and see what can be verified, what can't, what is true, what isn't, and whether or not the loudest voices in the arena are trustworthy or not." As of now, we have a lot of "possibly/maybe/I heard/trust me" and not a lot of anything else. Hopefully that changes soon. And hopefully they stop putting out videos of balloons. It really ruins the case for the aliens crowd when the people we are supposed to believe are often claiming that balloons and birds are aliens.
To say that those of us who still have some doubt are acting irrational is really silly.
These people just love being on tv and love the publicity. Many of them have been caught lying over and over, and many others have never once provided anything other than recycled claims they heard from someone else.
I'm not the irrational one if I happen to need actual evidence before I fully believe. Not a single video that has ever been released has been compelling. If compelling video exists, release it. Until then, it's all talk. It's quite rational to wait for actual evidence before just believing in what are incredibly extraordinary claims.
And I'll repeat for the umpteenth time, I'm on board with the idea of intelligent life. I WANT it to be true. I WANT to believe. But wanting to believe seems to have caused a lot of people to abandon all discernment when it comes to whether and what we *should* believe. Everyone is free to have their own standards for what will convince them. Mine just happen to include something - ANYTHING - tangible and verifiable. As of now, there is precisely zero of that. There is a ton of other really interesting data, which you mentioned, that makes the story worth following. That's why I'm here. It's clearly possible that something is afoot. But intellectual honesty requires being skeptical even if you want something to be true. Not skeptical as in "there's no way," but skeptical as in "let's look at the evidence and see what can be verified, what can't, what is true, what isn't, and whether or not the loudest voices in the arena are trustworthy or not." As of now, we have a lot of "possibly/maybe/I heard/trust me" and not a lot of anything else. Hopefully that changes soon. And hopefully they stop putting out videos of balloons. It really ruins the case for the aliens crowd when the people we are supposed to believe are often claiming that balloons and birds are aliens.
Sentient plasmoids = Angels?
Well said. Agree.
I'll say this. I just lurk here 99% of the time.
I actually do believe in NHI. And I do believe we have had interactions with them over our past.
I also am a student of the human condition though and the current crop of UFO "experts" are largely ass IMO. The endless whiplash and pandering and edging of the masses from most of them is exhausting and Occams Razor applies to human actions more than anything else. This is their job now. And all things considered, they are living in the good times, so to speak.
I still "believe" and I always will. It is a mathematical certainty we are not alone. Just no longer give a **** about the day to day discourse from the more popular talking heads on the subject. Is it right to have the mindset of "Put up or shut up" when lives and livelihoods could be in danger? I don't know and I objectively don't care anymore because the effect is the same to me. I've tuned out the main players until the day they actually do something substantial.
I know disclosure has to be a process but I am not going to blindly hand waive everything to that explanation. "If only you knew what I knew!!" for the 100th time is not disclosure. It's brand marketing and I refuse to accept it as anything else at this point.
There also has been a few pivots lately that I am personally not a fan of at all and IMO muddies the waters considerably. The same waters that are already thick as mud as is.
So in the meantime I have more or less adapted the stance of thinking that it will probably happen at some point. I will keep broad attention to the topic in general and discuss the cooler aspects of it that are interesting but all the furor surrounding the disclosure side is just noise I will have to wait out and see. Just like everyone else. I no longer consider myself an active participant in that particular area. I don't have the energy or even the conviction to do so. Again, that is because of the human side of this whole thing. Not the NHI.
ETA: Read this back and realized this might come off as overly negative which was not my intention. Will also amend that I think where we are as a society right now is super cool and I am genuinely stoked that this whole thing is no longer the super laughed at taboo subject I remember from my youth. For better or for worse, these people HAVE pushed this thing to the fore and that is worthy in itself.
I actually do believe in NHI. And I do believe we have had interactions with them over our past.
I also am a student of the human condition though and the current crop of UFO "experts" are largely ass IMO. The endless whiplash and pandering and edging of the masses from most of them is exhausting and Occams Razor applies to human actions more than anything else. This is their job now. And all things considered, they are living in the good times, so to speak.
I still "believe" and I always will. It is a mathematical certainty we are not alone. Just no longer give a **** about the day to day discourse from the more popular talking heads on the subject. Is it right to have the mindset of "Put up or shut up" when lives and livelihoods could be in danger? I don't know and I objectively don't care anymore because the effect is the same to me. I've tuned out the main players until the day they actually do something substantial.
I know disclosure has to be a process but I am not going to blindly hand waive everything to that explanation. "If only you knew what I knew!!" for the 100th time is not disclosure. It's brand marketing and I refuse to accept it as anything else at this point.
There also has been a few pivots lately that I am personally not a fan of at all and IMO muddies the waters considerably. The same waters that are already thick as mud as is.
So in the meantime I have more or less adapted the stance of thinking that it will probably happen at some point. I will keep broad attention to the topic in general and discuss the cooler aspects of it that are interesting but all the furor surrounding the disclosure side is just noise I will have to wait out and see. Just like everyone else. I no longer consider myself an active participant in that particular area. I don't have the energy or even the conviction to do so. Again, that is because of the human side of this whole thing. Not the NHI.
ETA: Read this back and realized this might come off as overly negative which was not my intention. Will also amend that I think where we are as a society right now is super cool and I am genuinely stoked that this whole thing is no longer the super laughed at taboo subject I remember from my youth. For better or for worse, these people HAVE pushed this thing to the fore and that is worthy in itself.
Outside of the military pilots who have spoken about what they've seen, I'll try and break it down like this…
DAVID GRUSCH
Co-Lead for UAP & Trans-Medium Object Analysis (NGA): Served as the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency's (NGA) premier operational lead for examining UAP and anomalous cross-domain craft.
National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) Representative to the UAPTF: Was officially detailed to the Pentagon's Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force, serving as the lead investigator representing the NRO to bridge satellite imagery and reconnaissance data with the task force.
Director's Briefing Staff (NRO Operations Center): Directly managed and coordinated intelligence products utilized for the Presidential Daily Brief (PDB) and supported critical national contingency operations.
Civilian Seniority (GS-15 Status): In his final civilian intelligence capacity at the NGA, Grusch held the rank of GS-15. Within the federal government hierarchy, this is considered a senior executive level, structurally recognized as the civilian equivalent to a full-bird military Colonel.
Military Rank: Served for 14 years as an active-duty and reserve Intelligence Officer in the U.S. Air Force, achieving the rank of Major (O-4).
Academic Background: Holding a Bachelor of Science in Physics from the University of Pittsburgh, he possessed the hard-science credentials necessary to serve as a Science and Engineering Technical Advisor (SETA) for agencies like DARPA and the Navy. He later earned a Master's degree in Intelligence Studies.
Deployments & Commendations: A decorated combat veteran who served a tour of duty in Afghanistan supporting the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC). His military decorations include the Meritorious Service Medal and multiple Air Force Commendation Medals.
Security Access: Held TS/SCI (Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information) clearances and was read into numerous restricted Special Access Programs (SAPs), granting him nearly unrestricted horizontal entry across the defense sector's most guarded intelligence silos.
JAY STRATTON
Director of the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force (UAPTF): Served as the inaugural director of this interagency program (established by the Department of Defense)
Chief of Air and Space Warfare: Held this senior role within the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), specializing in emerging foreign air and space technology threats.
Co-Founder / Senior Investigator of AATIP & AAWSAP: Was a foundational figure and investigator for the predecessor Pentagon programs: the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) and the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP).
Senior Executive Service (SES) Status: Achieved the rank of a Defense Intelligence Senior Executive Service officer. In government hierarchy, his civilian rank was equivalent to a two-star general (Major General).
Military Service: Over a 32-year career, his service spanned multiple branches of the U.S. Armed Forces, including the U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force, and Naval Intelligence.
Deployments: A combat veteran with eight deployments over the course of his military career.
Security Clearances: Throughout his tenure, he held top-level, highly classified security clearances, giving him deep access to the national intelligence community's most sensitive data regarding advanced technologies and anomalous phenomena.
THEIR CLAIMS
Both David Grusch (under oath) and Jay Stratton claim to have personally seen highly classified photographic and video evidence of not just "UAP"s, but verifiable non-human craft. Stratton has even outright said he's seen, with his own eyes, "non-human beings," while Grusch has heavily hinted the same.
Grusch has also claimed that, over roughly four years, using his ultra-high clearances (and Stratton as his boss for at least a portion of that time), he interviewed roughly 40 individuals, the majority of whom alleged firsthand knowledge of / involvement in hidden UAP crash-retrieval / reverse-engineering legacy programs. In his July 26, 2023 House testimony, Grusch said his belief that the U.S. possessed non-human craft and "biologics" was based on those interviews, and the evidence he was shown in during interviews, though he could not name the individuals publicly because of classification/security constraints.
However, most of them then testified behind closed doors, in classified settings. Their collective argument, along with the evidence they presented, was so convincing to those who heard/saw it, that their case was officially deemed "credible and urgent" by Thomas Monheim, the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, launching an official investigation that lasts to this day. Again, this officially happened and is officially ongoing.
OTHERS
Due to the efforts of Grusch and Stratton (along with the efforts of Lue Elizondo and Christopher Mellon before them)…
Tim Burchett
U.S. Representative from Tennessee
Eric Burlison
U.S. Representative from Missouri
Jared Moskowitz
U.S. Representative from Florida
Anna Paulina Luna
U.S. Representative from Florida
Tim Gallaudet
Retired Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy
Former Navy Chief Oceanographer
… and more are now, on multiple occasions, publicly claiming to be part of a series of official, ongoing classified briefings where in they have been A) shown classified footage of undeniably non-human craft, and B) privy to classified testimony/evidence from Grusch's 40 whistleblowers (and others). In fact, according to the names above (and more), they've been so convinced by what they've seen and heard, they're now risking their careers and their credibility to try and legally make public what they've been privy to in SCIFs.
Now, technically, is all of this "hearsay"?
Yes.
But if the story they're collectively telling and corroborating isn't true, you have to ask yourself for what other purpose would they be telling it?
A vast psyop they're unwittingly a part of?
A vast psyop they're willingly a part of?
Sheer attention?
I'll just say this... given all that those of us who study this subject know, the more we continue to learn (much of it increasingly corroborated), and the more credible individuals who come forward... the more "non human craft/intelligence" is increasingly starting to become the simplest, sanest answer for me, personally. Especially considering all of the other countless credible claims, circumstantial evidence, and trustworthy individuals who have come forward over the decades. IMO, collectively, it's all just too overwhelming to either be bunk or a psyop.
DAVID GRUSCH
Co-Lead for UAP & Trans-Medium Object Analysis (NGA): Served as the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency's (NGA) premier operational lead for examining UAP and anomalous cross-domain craft.
National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) Representative to the UAPTF: Was officially detailed to the Pentagon's Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force, serving as the lead investigator representing the NRO to bridge satellite imagery and reconnaissance data with the task force.
Director's Briefing Staff (NRO Operations Center): Directly managed and coordinated intelligence products utilized for the Presidential Daily Brief (PDB) and supported critical national contingency operations.
Civilian Seniority (GS-15 Status): In his final civilian intelligence capacity at the NGA, Grusch held the rank of GS-15. Within the federal government hierarchy, this is considered a senior executive level, structurally recognized as the civilian equivalent to a full-bird military Colonel.
Military Rank: Served for 14 years as an active-duty and reserve Intelligence Officer in the U.S. Air Force, achieving the rank of Major (O-4).
Academic Background: Holding a Bachelor of Science in Physics from the University of Pittsburgh, he possessed the hard-science credentials necessary to serve as a Science and Engineering Technical Advisor (SETA) for agencies like DARPA and the Navy. He later earned a Master's degree in Intelligence Studies.
Deployments & Commendations: A decorated combat veteran who served a tour of duty in Afghanistan supporting the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC). His military decorations include the Meritorious Service Medal and multiple Air Force Commendation Medals.
Security Access: Held TS/SCI (Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information) clearances and was read into numerous restricted Special Access Programs (SAPs), granting him nearly unrestricted horizontal entry across the defense sector's most guarded intelligence silos.
JAY STRATTON
Director of the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force (UAPTF): Served as the inaugural director of this interagency program (established by the Department of Defense)
Chief of Air and Space Warfare: Held this senior role within the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), specializing in emerging foreign air and space technology threats.
Co-Founder / Senior Investigator of AATIP & AAWSAP: Was a foundational figure and investigator for the predecessor Pentagon programs: the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) and the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP).
Senior Executive Service (SES) Status: Achieved the rank of a Defense Intelligence Senior Executive Service officer. In government hierarchy, his civilian rank was equivalent to a two-star general (Major General).
Military Service: Over a 32-year career, his service spanned multiple branches of the U.S. Armed Forces, including the U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force, and Naval Intelligence.
Deployments: A combat veteran with eight deployments over the course of his military career.
Security Clearances: Throughout his tenure, he held top-level, highly classified security clearances, giving him deep access to the national intelligence community's most sensitive data regarding advanced technologies and anomalous phenomena.
THEIR CLAIMS
Both David Grusch (under oath) and Jay Stratton claim to have personally seen highly classified photographic and video evidence of not just "UAP"s, but verifiable non-human craft. Stratton has even outright said he's seen, with his own eyes, "non-human beings," while Grusch has heavily hinted the same.
Grusch has also claimed that, over roughly four years, using his ultra-high clearances (and Stratton as his boss for at least a portion of that time), he interviewed roughly 40 individuals, the majority of whom alleged firsthand knowledge of / involvement in hidden UAP crash-retrieval / reverse-engineering legacy programs. In his July 26, 2023 House testimony, Grusch said his belief that the U.S. possessed non-human craft and "biologics" was based on those interviews, and the evidence he was shown in during interviews, though he could not name the individuals publicly because of classification/security constraints.
However, most of them then testified behind closed doors, in classified settings. Their collective argument, along with the evidence they presented, was so convincing to those who heard/saw it, that their case was officially deemed "credible and urgent" by Thomas Monheim, the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, launching an official investigation that lasts to this day. Again, this officially happened and is officially ongoing.
OTHERS
Due to the efforts of Grusch and Stratton (along with the efforts of Lue Elizondo and Christopher Mellon before them)…
Tim Burchett
U.S. Representative from Tennessee
Eric Burlison
U.S. Representative from Missouri
Jared Moskowitz
U.S. Representative from Florida
Anna Paulina Luna
U.S. Representative from Florida
Tim Gallaudet
Retired Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy
Former Navy Chief Oceanographer
… and more are now, on multiple occasions, publicly claiming to be part of a series of official, ongoing classified briefings where in they have been A) shown classified footage of undeniably non-human craft, and B) privy to classified testimony/evidence from Grusch's 40 whistleblowers (and others). In fact, according to the names above (and more), they've been so convinced by what they've seen and heard, they're now risking their careers and their credibility to try and legally make public what they've been privy to in SCIFs.
Now, technically, is all of this "hearsay"?
Yes.
But if the story they're collectively telling and corroborating isn't true, you have to ask yourself for what other purpose would they be telling it?
A vast psyop they're unwittingly a part of?
A vast psyop they're willingly a part of?
Sheer attention?
I'll just say this... given all that those of us who study this subject know, the more we continue to learn (much of it increasingly corroborated), and the more credible individuals who come forward... the more "non human craft/intelligence" is increasingly starting to become the simplest, sanest answer for me, personally. Especially considering all of the other countless credible claims, circumstantial evidence, and trustworthy individuals who have come forward over the decades. IMO, collectively, it's all just too overwhelming to either be bunk or a psyop.
Quote:
It's currently very low, as I continue to research each claim. Almost without fail, the claims that I've looked into are debunked.
This claim, right here, tells me everything I need to know about your sincerity (or lack there of). Because there are countless credible claims/accounts out there that haven't been remotely debunked. Like, to the point where I don't know how you can even type this with a straight face. Many of them shared over the years in this very thread, never mind the sheer number outside of it.
Quote:
To say that those of us who still have some doubt are acting irrational is really silly.
Don't misquote me. That's not what I said. Especially considering I've mentioned over and over again in this thread that doubt/skepticism is this field is absolutely healthy/warranted. I wasn't talking about that. I was specifically referring to your brand of flippant generalizing/selective ignorance, which is exactly what you're engaging in, yet again, in this post.
Quote:
I'm not buying into something like this just because some people (who happen to LOVE being on TV) say so… These people just love being on tv and love the publicity.
A) It's not just "some" people, and B) considering the positions they've held and what a number of them have done for our country, to reduce *all* of them to mere attention *****s is the laziest, most reductive, most disrespectful nonsense ever.
Quote:
Many of them have been caught lying over and over
This simply isn't true. Not even remotely. In addition to the names mentioned/listed in my previous post, not a single word spoken by any of the individuals below - who are tied to the subject and have credibly spoken on the subject - has turned out to be a verifiable lie. To say as much is literally a lie on your own part…
James Clapper
Former Director of National Intelligence
Retired U.S. Air Force general
Marco Rubio
U.S. Secretary of State and National Security Advisor
Kirsten Gillibrand
U.S. Senator from New York
Member, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
Mike Rounds
U.S. Senator from South Dakota
Member, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
Dan Crenshaw
U.S. Representative from Texas
Member, House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
Andr Carson
U.S. Representative from Indiana
Mike Gallagher
Former U.S. Representative from Wisconsin
Former member, House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
Chris Miller
Former Acting U.S. Secretary of Defense
Brett Feddersen
Former Director of Aviation Security on the White House National Security Council
James Cobb
Retired U.S. Air Force fighter pilot
Former NORAD Vice Director of Operations
David Fravor
Retired U.S. Navy "Top Gun" fighter pilot
Alex Dietrich
Retired U.S. Navy "Top Gun" fighter pilot
Ryan Graves
Former U.S. Navy fighter pilot
Founder of Americans for Safe Aerospace
Karl Nell
Retired U.S. Army colonel
Northrop Grumman executive
Robert Salas
Retired U.S. Air Force Captain
Robert Jacobs
Former U.S. Air Force Lieutenant
Hal Puthoff
Quantum physicist
AATIP Chief Scientist
Eric Davis
Astrophysicist
AATIP Scientific Advisor
Garry Nolan
Stanford University School of Medicine professor/researcher
CIA/AATIP/UAP Task Force advisor
You hem and haw all the damn time, yet you've never once, outside of the eyeroll-inducing "they love to be on TV," given a reasonable explanation as to why all of these people are either lying or putting their reputations on the line to publicly discuss the subject in a way that heavily hints they either believe it to be true or know it to be true. I would genuinely love to hear what your explanation is. Did all of these credible individuals all of the sudden decide one day to start collectively making up a bunch of UFO ***** If so, to what end? Or are they all being duped by our shadow government puppet masters for some covert reason? Seriously, what is your explanation? How do you rationalize it all? Along with...
- The undeniable ties between nuclear bases and over 200 credible military reports of unexplainable UAP encounters.
- The millions of other credible sightings over the decades.
- The hundreds if not thousands of credible/corroborating abduction stories.
... etc, etc. etc.
In short, you always either point to holes in *one* story/individual, and exaggerate what that one story/individual then means big picture - or - you vastly overgeneralize/dismiss when it comes to groups of people/accounts. What you never do instead is offer a plausible, alternative explanation that collectively accounts for the entire phenomenon as a whole.
I have given my explanation several times and will again: they love the publicity and are making money off of it. Not that complicated. People love the spotlight.
Regarding your other good points, I don't dismiss them. Yet again, I say, those things are the reason I am open to the discussion at all. I sit up and take notice when all of the points you mention exist. It's why I am following the story so closely. There might be something there! I hope there is!
As for your other weird attacks on me, I'll ignore, mostly. It's kinda odd the way you characterize my words, but it's not accurate, that's for sure.
Regarding your other good points, I don't dismiss them. Yet again, I say, those things are the reason I am open to the discussion at all. I sit up and take notice when all of the points you mention exist. It's why I am following the story so closely. There might be something there! I hope there is!
As for your other weird attacks on me, I'll ignore, mostly. It's kinda odd the way you characterize my words, but it's not accurate, that's for sure.
A summary of our interactions:
T: here's a lot of interesting stuff, with the caveat that evidence will be important and of course people will have doubt until hard evidence is shown.
Me: Wow that is a lot of interesting stuff indeed, and while I want to believe it, you're right, I do still need to see hard evidence before I fully believe something so wild.
T: how dare you
T: here's a lot of interesting stuff, with the caveat that evidence will be important and of course people will have doubt until hard evidence is shown.
Me: Wow that is a lot of interesting stuff indeed, and while I want to believe it, you're right, I do still need to see hard evidence before I fully believe something so wild.
T: how dare you
Ha, you literally just mischaracterized my words just the same.
Also, I asked, OUTSIDE OF "they love publicity," what is your explanation for the entire phenomenon; for the whole shebang; for all the things I listed in my response to yours. I was pretty clear about that. Not "why do you think five people might be lying." You then proceeded to simply repeat the exact same thing I was originally asking you about.
As for them "making money off of it," that's been discussed/debunked countless times. Are *some* of them making *some* money off of their efforts? Sure. But not a single one of them are making enough off of it to support themselves/their families, never mind enough to get rich. Grusch literally had to become a real estate agent to pay his family's bills, and only relatively recently did he become a staffer for Burlison, but even that's only part time. Otherwise, he has no book, no paid speaking tours, etc. Who else do you think is making money? Be specific for once. Burchett? Luna? Rubio? Fravor? Who? Hell, even Bob Lazar, a guy who *does* have book, documentary, and movie deals, says it all hardly adds up to anything. (And as someone who options people's life rights for a living, I can confirm that those deals are often next to nothing, relatively speaking).
But even if some of them are making money, so what? A number of them aren't just dedicating their lives, they're *risking* their lives for disclosure. Yet, according to you, they can't be even mildly compensated for their efforts? How else are they supposed to help support themselves financially while trying to effectively accomplish their goals?
Re: my "attacks"/your inaccurate summary just now, I come at you the way I do because you're constantly stating ill-informed opinions/"research" as facts in this thread, while hardly ever engaging with the actual circumstantial evidence in good faith. You claim you do, but then in the very next sentence you'll seriously say, for instance, that the entire list of people I just named - many of them veterans who fought for our country - are nothing more than attention-seeking, money-grubbing grifters. You'll say that with a straight face, with no additional context or discussion, and then immediately go, "What? I want to believe! I really do!" How do you not see how that rubs me and others the wrong way?
You do stuff like that all the time - make these broad, sweeping, uninformed generalizations - and then when someone challenges you on them, you either misrepresent what they say, ignore their questions entirely, or do the whole, innocent "I want to believe" bit. Only to come back a week later and espouse your worldview yet again, with the same old talking points, ignoring / easily dismissing the mountains of circumstantial evidence being posted here.
Also, I asked, OUTSIDE OF "they love publicity," what is your explanation for the entire phenomenon; for the whole shebang; for all the things I listed in my response to yours. I was pretty clear about that. Not "why do you think five people might be lying." You then proceeded to simply repeat the exact same thing I was originally asking you about.
As for them "making money off of it," that's been discussed/debunked countless times. Are *some* of them making *some* money off of their efforts? Sure. But not a single one of them are making enough off of it to support themselves/their families, never mind enough to get rich. Grusch literally had to become a real estate agent to pay his family's bills, and only relatively recently did he become a staffer for Burlison, but even that's only part time. Otherwise, he has no book, no paid speaking tours, etc. Who else do you think is making money? Be specific for once. Burchett? Luna? Rubio? Fravor? Who? Hell, even Bob Lazar, a guy who *does* have book, documentary, and movie deals, says it all hardly adds up to anything. (And as someone who options people's life rights for a living, I can confirm that those deals are often next to nothing, relatively speaking).
But even if some of them are making money, so what? A number of them aren't just dedicating their lives, they're *risking* their lives for disclosure. Yet, according to you, they can't be even mildly compensated for their efforts? How else are they supposed to help support themselves financially while trying to effectively accomplish their goals?
Re: my "attacks"/your inaccurate summary just now, I come at you the way I do because you're constantly stating ill-informed opinions/"research" as facts in this thread, while hardly ever engaging with the actual circumstantial evidence in good faith. You claim you do, but then in the very next sentence you'll seriously say, for instance, that the entire list of people I just named - many of them veterans who fought for our country - are nothing more than attention-seeking, money-grubbing grifters. You'll say that with a straight face, with no additional context or discussion, and then immediately go, "What? I want to believe! I really do!" How do you not see how that rubs me and others the wrong way?
You do stuff like that all the time - make these broad, sweeping, uninformed generalizations - and then when someone challenges you on them, you either misrepresent what they say, ignore their questions entirely, or do the whole, innocent "I want to believe" bit. Only to come back a week later and espouse your worldview yet again, with the same old talking points, ignoring / easily dismissing the mountains of circumstantial evidence being posted here.
Sean Hannity on UFOs and aliens: “I kinda believe it’s real”
— UAP James (@UAPJames) June 10, 2026
“There’s too much compelling stuff that they’ve released. And what I’m hearing from others, a lot more coming.” pic.twitter.com/31q91ydyFn
"I don't know how to deal with this": @ChrisCuomo is joined by @rosscoulthart and @LueElizondo to break down David Grusch's statements that the US government has recovered nonhuman beings. Grusch was joined by members of Congress to call for increased transparency and… pic.twitter.com/bizUkudF67
— NewsNation (@NewsNation) June 10, 2026
Here is the link to the Australian papers mentioned by Grusch during the press conference:
For ease folks - Grusch said 👇🏼
— Holly Wood (@thatuapgirl) June 9, 2026
‘There is a declassified 1971 Australian formally classified secret assessment that a couple years ago was put in the Australian National Archives. I encourage people to read page 7 through 16 and that was the nuclear branch chief of the… pic.twitter.com/t2obNTvYXz
Just want to post in support of watty, as someone who is in a very similar mindset.
TCTTS presented a false dilemma : "either they are all lying and part of a massive cover up, or they are all telling the truth"….. and then he acts like it's outrageous that someone could disagree with him.
The real answer is somewhere in between. Some are telling the truth, some think they are telling the truth but are misinformed, some are out to make money (there sure are a lot of books being published), some are lying for attention, and some are just straight up crazy.
It's almost a mathematical certainty that we're not alone - the question is "will we meet something else in my lifetime?" I've gone from around 20% to about 30% in the past two years. So things are definitely coming out that sway my opinion, but I'm with watty - I need evidence, and all we've got so far is a bunch of "trust me bro" and videos that are either obviously not aliens or inconclusive.
TCTTS presented a false dilemma : "either they are all lying and part of a massive cover up, or they are all telling the truth"….. and then he acts like it's outrageous that someone could disagree with him.
The real answer is somewhere in between. Some are telling the truth, some think they are telling the truth but are misinformed, some are out to make money (there sure are a lot of books being published), some are lying for attention, and some are just straight up crazy.
It's almost a mathematical certainty that we're not alone - the question is "will we meet something else in my lifetime?" I've gone from around 20% to about 30% in the past two years. So things are definitely coming out that sway my opinion, but I'm with watty - I need evidence, and all we've got so far is a bunch of "trust me bro" and videos that are either obviously not aliens or inconclusive.
we've had government officials from all over South America, Canada, Japan, Israel, and various other nations confirm that their countries have had at minimum interaction with UAP/UFO/NHI in the past. Now we have a whole host of current and former US officials saying the same thing. Fascinating to see people dig their heels in over this and cry "debunked" instead of just watching it all unfold with curiosity
God loves you so much He'll meet you where you are. He also loves you too much to allow to stay where you are.
We sing Hallelujah! The Lamb has overcome!
We sing Hallelujah! The Lamb has overcome!
We are past the point of trust me bro with something defying our known laws of physics. That alone should take anyone to the point of openness.
For those needing evidence, explain what type would move the needle? Press conference with a Gray?
As I stated above, the Brazilian press conference with govt. officials acknowledging past occurrences is a start. Grainy videos and the usual suspects telling us that they could tell us more if it wasn't for those darn NDAs does not constitute disclosure. IMO it constitutes a grift. I don't expect a press conference with a govt official and a gray, but I need something more than Gorusch, Luna and Elizondo doing the circuit shouting "It's aliens." That holds no more weight than Giorgio A. Tsoukalos on an episode of Ancient Aliens.
BigCityCold said:
As I stated above, the Brazilian press conference with govt. officials acknowledging past occurrences is a start. Grainy videos and the usual suspects telling us that they could tell us more if it wasn't for those darn NDAs does not constitute disclosure. IMO it constitutes a grift. I don't expect a press conference with a govt official and a gray, but I need something more than Gorusch, Luna and Elizondo doing the circuit shouting "It's aliens." That holds no more weight than Giorgio A. Tsoukalos on an episode of Ancient Aliens.
Well... Grusch was in fact in charge of the presidential daily briefing among many other extremely high level positions in intelligence. He was the original whistleblower and had access to all of this data and chose to expose it via the correct channels. I would give him slightly more weight and credence than some dude on the history channel. You are saying that Brazil has more credibility than Grusch? That's hard to fathom to be honest.
The topic is going to require you to do some homework and put you completely outside of your comfort zone.
Lue Elizondo's book sold around 50,000 copies. If that's a grift, it's not a highly lucrative one.
My faith in Lue's testimony took a huge hit because he claimed a picture of a crop irrigation circle was the shadow of a giant circular UAP, not because he published a book. Come on, Lue. You can't make a mistake like that and maintain credibility.
My faith in Lue's testimony took a huge hit because he claimed a picture of a crop irrigation circle was the shadow of a giant circular UAP, not because he published a book. Come on, Lue. You can't make a mistake like that and maintain credibility.
Once again, we have to understand a lot of things are true at once and they can blend.
Yes to:
- lies by Intel which as Dody
- hidden tech that's ours / other nation
- lies, grifting, misidentification
- aliens
- angel-ic, demon-ic
- mysteries of the 2nd Heaven of St. Paul
Think about Elizando here. IMO:
He's Intel, has been shady, acted stupidly on X, is properly called out by Gerb (working for Hillary, mix of truth and lies)
AND
has made some ridiculous mistakes
AND
is doing the best he can, even acting heroically to get truths out
Yes to:
- lies by Intel which as Dody
- hidden tech that's ours / other nation
- lies, grifting, misidentification
- aliens
- angel-ic, demon-ic
- mysteries of the 2nd Heaven of St. Paul
Think about Elizando here. IMO:
He's Intel, has been shady, acted stupidly on X, is properly called out by Gerb (working for Hillary, mix of truth and lies)
AND
has made some ridiculous mistakes
AND
is doing the best he can, even acting heroically to get truths out
I'm not questioning his courage; he has served our nation for a long time in some truly dangerous places, and that includes here in the US. But he has a long and well-documented high level government career in UAP research. A random person interested in the UAP topic (like any of us) mistaking irrigation circles for flying saucer shadows is understandable. We're not government experts with the highest security clearances and years of experience reviewing photo reconnaissance. So it is damned puzzling why Lue would make a silly error like that.
Great. Point me to the correct channel that has all this evidence and exposed data. I am willing to do the homework and have a very broad comfort zone, but haven't had any faith in Grusch, Elizondo and others since the "Age of Disclosure" grift.
You asked the question and I answered. I will put it more succinctly here: Grusch, Elizondo and Luna hold no weight with me and it has to be some other official to move the needle.
You asked the question and I answered. I will put it more succinctly here: Grusch, Elizondo and Luna hold no weight with me and it has to be some other official to move the needle.
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