oragator said:

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I would love for it to be real, it would be the biggest story in history by light years (pun!), and would redefine our place in the universe, bring us much closer to understanding it all, and a 100 other things. And some of the videos are interesting.
But how is it that a country with less than 2 percent of the earth's area seems to be the one with all the captured or crashed craft? And how would the biggest story in human history have stayed secret for decades? I mean, to the speculation above, Lockheed Martin would have just gotten alien technology that dozens of people would have needed to analyze, and it never got out?
But the real question I keep coming back to…aliens have the ability to travel speed of light probably or faster, technology that we can't fully comprehend or even remotely match based on the videos, and yet they seem to find a way to crash here, maybe a few times. They have an exponentially worse safety record than a discount airline, really? They could likely conquer us but don't, could communicate but don't, could make themselves easier seen but don't, it all stays just murky enough to maybe be real but not truly. Which is how every conspiracy theory has worked for forever.
So for me, gonna take a lot more than what's out there. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

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This is the part that gets me. There is simply no way I can buy that there are actual extra-terrestrials that have visited Earth.

A civilization that has mastered FTL travel likely has mastered many other technologies:

• Harnessing quantum gravity (which quite literally means being able to change the relationship between mass and gravity)
• Exotic types of propulsion like Alcubierre drives and all the associated weaponry that would have
• Biology/DNA coding. These aliens likely have the computing power and insight into multiple abiogenesis events such that they could physically re-create an entire planet's worth of billions of years of evolution on their own, meaning they don't really need to interact with any more 'naturally occurring' life.
• They would likely not even be biological, rather they would be artificial intelligence. The claim they found alien "pilots" is beyond suspect.
• pretty much anything else you can think of which begs the question as to WHY they would have the desire to send actual living organisms to other planets.

redline248 said:

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The hardest thing for me to come to terms with in regards to all this supposed retrieval is how are these secret groups the only ones to find them? If these craft are truly visiting all over the world where are the youtube/insta/twitter posts from some Australian farmer, or Mexican tequila maker, or whoever in BFE Africa, etc? Supposedly, we (the US military) don't know where they come from and don't know how to track them. Am I to assume once they crash anywhere in the world one of these secret groups knows about it and tracks them down before any Joe Schmoe with and iPhone finds it?

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Have you not seen Men In Black?

Malachi Constant said:

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oragator said:

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I would love for it to be real, it would be the biggest story in history by light years (pun!), and would redefine our place in the universe, bring us much closer to understanding it all, and a 100 other things. And some of the videos are interesting.
But how is it that a country with less than 2 percent of the earth's area seems to be the one with all the captured or crashed craft? And how would the biggest story in human history have stayed secret for decades? I mean, to the speculation above, Lockheed Martin would have just gotten alien technology that dozens of people would have needed to analyze, and it never got out?
But the real question I keep coming back to…aliens have the ability to travel speed of light probably or faster, technology that we can't fully comprehend or even remotely match based on the videos, and yet they seem to find a way to crash here, maybe a few times. They have an exponentially worse safety record than a discount airline, really? They could likely conquer us but don't, could communicate but don't, could make themselves easier seen but don't, it all stays just murky enough to maybe be real but not truly. Which is how every conspiracy theory has worked for forever.
So for me, gonna take a lot more than what's out there. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

---

This is the part that gets me. There is simply no way I can buy that there are actual extra-terrestrials that have visited Earth.

A civilization that has mastered FTL travel likely has mastered many other technologies:

• Harnessing quantum gravity (which quite literally means being able to change the relationship between mass and gravity)
• Exotic types of propulsion like Alcubierre drives and all the associated weaponry that would have
• Biology/DNA coding. These aliens likely have the computing power and insight into multiple abiogenesis events such that they could physically re-create an entire planet's worth of billions of years of evolution on their own, meaning they don't really need to interact with any more 'naturally occurring' life.
• They would likely not even be biological, rather they would be artificial intelligence. The claim they found alien "pilots" is beyond suspect.
• pretty much anything else you can think of which begs the question as to WHY they would have the desire to send actual living organisms to other planets.

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Again, you're making ASSUMPTIONS that A) these beings are interstellar, not inter-dimensional or even ultra-terrestrial, and B) that we are "naturally occurring" life. Neither of these things are a given.

TCTTS said:

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Again, you're making ASSUMPTIONS that A) these beings are interstellar, not inter-dimensional or even ultra-terrestrial, and B) that we are "naturally occurring" life. Neither of these things are a given.

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This is a good point. They could also be something that is from a different level of the matrix visiting what we think of as "base reality."

I honestly think that's more likely than an interstellar or intergalactic visitor.

Edit to say the E-board is the perfect place for this discussion.

Yeah, the inter-dimensional theory is one that's really starting to take hold, to the point where it's now more popular than the interstellar theory, at least among certain scientists like Garry Nolan, along with a number of these officials who are coming forward. It could also technically be both… that yes, they started out on a planet in another galaxy, but with a multi-million-year head start on us, have essentially "ascended" (for lack of a better word) to another dimension/plane/frequency of existence. Who knows…

Quote:

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In particular, there are rumors of downed craft in Italy and in Brazil that we then brought back to the U.S. Grusch also mentions that we have "landed," intact craft as well, and the rumors there are that at least one if not more of these were found in excavations of ancient sites (obviously meaning these things have been here for thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years)

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I'm cherry-picking one part of your post, but it's indicative of your posts at large.

Everything you're outlining is basically exactly what silence fiction has been making moves about for decades.

In my mind, if/when aliens or time travelers show up, it's going to be something we're not expecting. There's no way our movie-making community just nailed how first contact is going to happen.

Wrec86 Ag said:

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Quote:

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In particular, there are rumors of downed craft in Italy and in Brazil that we then brought back to the U.S. Grusch also mentions that we have "landed," intact craft as well, and the rumors there are that at least one if not more of these were found in excavations of ancient sites (obviously meaning these things have been here for thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years)

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I'm cherry-picking one part of your post, but it's indicative of your posts at large.

Everything you're outlining is basically exactly what silence fiction has been making moves about for decades.

In my mind, if/when aliens or time travelers show up, it's going to be something we're not expecting. There's no way our movie-making community just nailed how first contact is going to happen.

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It's not "indicative" of anything because, AGAIN, I'm not claiming any of this as truth. Aliens could have landed an intact craft in a field and left the keys in it for us to find, for all we know. I've said multiple times now that I'm purposefully throwing sh*t against the wall (for lack of a better phrase), as a means of getting people to think outside of the box, in regards to the questions being asked. That's it and that's all.

That said… is it *really* that outside the realm of possibility that a species with a multi-million-year head start on us has been observing (and possibly even subtly interacting with) us for thousands of years? Just because screenwriters came up with roughly the same idea, it's suddenly not possible? What kind of logic is that?

Ryan, Dave Grusch said this directly to me, while standing in my own house.

— Trail of the Saucers (@hollywoodufos) June 7, 2023

Whistleblower David Grusch described an Italian UFO recovery in 1933, perhaps resulting in this telegram from Mussolini’s Director of Special Affairs.

“On the personal order of [Mussolini], no mention is to be made of the alleged landing of an unknown aircraft on national soil.” pic.twitter.com/v3I3RnXQcq

— ᴋʟᴀᵾs (@tinyklaus) June 7, 2023

UFO whistleblower David Grusch in the new Le Parisien article:

"My degree is in physics. The mechanical and experimental data shows that it's not human. It could be extraterrestrial, or it could be something else, coming from other dimensions as described by quantum mechanics. I… pic.twitter.com/SBiB5O745p

— TheJuan1️⃣ (@planethunter56) June 7, 2023

TCTTS said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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Quote:

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In particular, there are rumors of downed craft in Italy and in Brazil that we then brought back to the U.S. Grusch also mentions that we have "landed," intact craft as well, and the rumors there are that at least one if not more of these were found in excavations of ancient sites (obviously meaning these things have been here for thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years)

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I'm cherry-picking one part of your post, but it's indicative of your posts at large.

Everything you're outlining is basically exactly what silence fiction has been making moves about for decades.

In my mind, if/when aliens or time travelers show up, it's going to be something we're not expecting. There's no way our movie-making community just nailed how first contact is going to happen.

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It's not "indicative" of anything because, AGAIN, I'm not claiming any of this as truth. Aliens could have landed an intact craft in a field and left the keys in it for us to find, for all we know. I've said multiple times now that I'm purposefully throwing sh*t against the wall (for lack of a better phrase), as a means of getting people to think outside of the box, in regards to the questions being asked. That's it and that's all.

That said… is it *really* that outside the realm of possibility that a species with a multi-million-year head start on us has been observing (and possibly even subtly interacting with) us for thousands of years? Just because screenwriters came up with roughly the same idea, it's suddenly not possible? What kind of logic is that?

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Sorry - I'm not attacking you individually, I apologize if it came off that way.

It's just another reason why I'm not buying into this at large yet. It's exactly what someone would make up if they wanted to go to the press because it is what they've seen in movies.

So the next step is to reach out to that office and see if he was authorized to talk about that?

Can we keep the skepticism to the post that is on the politics board? I mean, this is the ET board after all.

I love it. We're already in Indiana Jones territory here, with professional naysayers/trolls like Greenstreet getting shut down left and right (McMillan owns/runs The Debrief, who first broke this story). This is *definitely* the right board for this…

Hitler and the Nazi party didn't achieve full dictatorial power until after the death of Hindenburg in August 1934.

Soooooo... is Steven trying to say the "Nazi Bell" was used to go back in time and crash in Italy in 1933? pic.twitter.com/lFZ8m3Opf3

— Tim McMillan (@LtTimMcMillan) June 7, 2023

https://t.co/XdaaYwMH5K

Interview of David GRUSCH 💥💥💥

Today in Le Parisien French mainstream media

Here some very interesting quotes translated in English : pic.twitter.com/lCdABqcMfv

— Akam1129 🛸🗞️🌍📸🎨🐶🌱 (@Akam1129) June 7, 2023

Have they said how many have been recovered? Are we talking Jay Leno's garage full of various types of UFO's? It could just be one or two…

TCTTS said:

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I love it. We're already in Indiana Jones territory here, with professional naysayers/trolls like Greenstreet getting shut down left and right (McMillan owns/runs The Debrief, who first broke this story). This is *definitely* the right board for this…

Hitler and the Nazi party didn't achieve full dictatorial power until after the death of Hindenburg in August 1934.

Soooooo... is Steven trying to say the "Nazi Bell" was used to go back in time and crash in Italy in 1933? pic.twitter.com/lFZ8m3Opf3

— Tim McMillan (@LtTimMcMillan) June 7, 2023

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My initial thought was that all those grainy photos and drawings of secret Nazi UFO weapons may have actually been based on recovered craft, not mock-ups or designs being developed by Nazi scientists.

I'm confused on the gotcha here? Hitler was chancellor of Germany in 1933 and had been leader of the Nazi party for like a decade.

Fenrir said:

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I'm confused on the gotcha here? Hitler was chancellor of Germany in 1933 and had been leader of the Nazi party for like a decade.

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"full dictatorial power," meaning Hitler couldn't yet march into Italy and take whatever he wanted. Not in 1933.

It's beside the point, though. I simply find it funny that some of these guys like Greenstreet, who aren't "skeptics" so much as professional, bad faith trolls who literally make their living attempting to debunk anything and everything related to UAP, are now grasping at straws in the face of this Grusch news.

Rocagnante said:

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Have they said how many have been recovered? Are we talking Jay Leno's garage full of various types of UFO's? It could just be one or two…

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1 "Some of the same sources who shared information with Grusch, as well as others, spoke to Public about retrieved spacecraft that they say is in the possession of the U.S. government. 'I know of at least 12-15 craft,' said one person, who said they shared the information with… https://t.co/ninBFSvHpb

— Joe Murgia (@TheUfoJoe) June 8, 2023

The Pentagon says there's no credible evidence of alien spacecraft, but several military and intelligence contractors with inside information say there is. What's more, these insiders say, U.S. military and intelligence agencies are refusing to provide the evidence to Congress. pic.twitter.com/90RRpw5zKJ

— Michael Shellenberger (@shellenberger) June 7, 2023

https://public.substack.com/p/us-has-12-or-more-alien-space-craft
(I'm not voting for this site/article, I've just seen it making the rounds.)

DAVID GRUSCH ~ UFOS THE SIZE OF A FOOTBALL FIELD.#UFOTWITTER #MASSIVEUFO@SenGillibrand @StandForBetter @ChrisUKSharp @Renate_FE @CraftmeatI @JeremyCorbell @g_knapp @Akam1129 pic.twitter.com/ZP0dMxXqml

— Avi M (@AvirupMondal41) June 7, 2023

What in the world is going on this week?

Would have been nice if somebody not connected to the family reported seeing the same beings.

H/T: @tinyklaus

~~~

A Las Vegas family claims something crashed in their backyard, prompting them to call 911 about “non-human” beings – the thing is, this time, several people saw… https://t.co/cdh5HsOyvm

— Joe Murgia (@TheUfoJoe) June 8, 2023

https://www.8newsnow.com/investigators/las-vegas-family-claims-to-see-aliens-after-several-report-something-falling-from-sky/

What if Hitler was never found because he either time travelled into the future, or into another dimension? Furthermore, what if Nazis took over the world in whatever time or dimension they went, and are now visiting us from their world?

redline248 said:

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TCTTS said:

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https://t.co/XdaaYwMH5K

Interview of David GRUSCH 💥💥💥

Today in Le Parisien French mainstream media

Here some very interesting quotes translated in English : pic.twitter.com/lCdABqcMfv

— Akam1129 🛸🗞️🌍📸🎨🐶🌱 (@Akam1129) June 7, 2023

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There it is at the bottom. The thing that raises all my fibers of skepticism.

"I'm going to start a non profit."

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The dude testified under oath, risking fines, prison, and a stellar reputation, should any of this turn out to be false. And on the other side of the coin, if true, he's potentially risking reprisal from certain gatekeepers, which could lead to things like smear campaigns, if not graver consequences. Regardless, if he's somehow proven to be a fraud, despite the myriad credible people vouching for him, his non-profit will never amount to anything, and he'll have much bigger things to worry about.

All that said, I have zero issue with guys like this - decorated military veterans/public servants - essentially making a career out of disclosure. They've already served their country, and if they're truly genuine in their cause; if they're going to be advocates in the wake of their service, giving all kinds of interviews, acting as the "face" of the movement, helping pave the way for others to come forward, etc, I have no problem with them being compensated in some way for doing so.

BowSowy said:

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TCTTS said:

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I simply find it funny that some of these guys like Greenstreet, who aren't "skeptics" so much as professional, bad faith trolls who literally make their living attempting to debunk anything and everything related to UAP, are now grasping at straws in the face of this Grusch news.

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Lets be real, I'm sure a lot of the people who are "pro UAP" also literally make their living attempting to legitimize anything and everything related to UAP.

I have no idea if any of this is real. I think it would be impossible to keep this under wraps for decades, I suppose it's possible. But you can't tell me that most, if not all, of these people that are most vocal about all of this new information do not have something personal to gain from it.

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No doubt. Some of the "pro UAP" officials who have come forward *do* get consulting gigs, book deals, etc, based on their knowledge/efforts. For me, it's less about about the money, though - to each his own in that regard - and more about their attitude toward the scientific method. Because most of the "pro UAP" officials who have come forward aren't necessarily trying to prove that aliens exists. They've simply been privy to information and data they can't unsee, are trying to raise awareness, and want *someone* in a position of power/influence to take this issue more seriously and get to the bottom of what's going on, from a scientific standpoint. If the explanation turns out to be terrestrial, so be it.

Whereas, on the other end of the spectrum, these fuddy duddy "skeptic" bros *start* from a position of "There's no way these things are real, and no matter what happens or who comes forward, I will work to sow the seeds of distrust in any way I can." Which is of course completely disingenuous and not scientific at all. Not to mention, they simply come across as shady people to begin with, with Greenstreet right there at the top of the list, acting as nothing more than a #UFOTwitter court jester for profit.

Some really good/interesting points made in this piece...

Major legal blog weighing in, and backing up how massive the #DavidGrusch revelations are, especially highlighting his credibility from a legal perspective in how he has done this! #ufotwitter https://t.co/RCisRTa8LI pic.twitter.com/5wQmylXAhK

— 🌹🛸Anthony 🇱🇧 🌍 (@Cedar_Anthony) June 7, 2023

A lawyer's viewpoint on Grusch...

(And yes, we all know we need proof of these claims and we all know Grusch could have been lied to by these sources. But for what purpose? And all of them? I don't think so. ~Joe)

~~~

The complaint filed with the Intelligence Community… https://t.co/aiHUXJLcb5

— Joe Murgia (@TheUfoJoe) June 8, 2023

https://abovethelaw.com/2023/06/serious-fed-unafraid-of-legal-jeopardy-in-claim-of-recovered-alien-craft-government-ufo-coverup/

You mention the scientific method. You follow this a lot closer than I do - has any experimentation or data actually come forward, or are we just stuck at the hypothesis stage, still?

Only *reports* of classified data so far. Reports of radar data, satellite data, reports of frequencies these craft are emitting, etc. We also reportedly have data on flight patterns and there are even rumors of us knowing how to "bait" craft in certain instances. There are also first-hand claims of super-hi-res photos and video of craft caught by our military. But again, it's all reportedly classified, though most these claims *do* come from credible officials, who have spoken on the record, including current members of Congress, former military/defense high ups, and even John Ratcliffe, Trump's former Director of National Intelligence, who straight up admitted on Fox News that the radar and satellite data exists.

And the thing is, officials like Grusch, Lue Elizondo, and Chris Mellon have SEEN all of this data, given their various clearances. This whole push, in fact, is for as much of that data as possible to be released to the public, so more people - especially scientists - can get their hands on it, and help get to the bottom of this thing.

TCTTS said:

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Only *reports* of classified data so far. Reports of radar data, satellite data, reports of frequencies these craft are emitting, etc. We also reportedly have data on flight patterns and there are even rumors of us knowing how to "bait" craft in certain instances. There are also first-hand claims of super-hi-res photos and video of craft caught by our military. But again, it's all reportedly classified, though most these claims *do* come from credible officials, who have spoken on the record, including current members of Congress, former military/defense high ups, and even John Ratcliffe, Trump's former Director of National Intelligence, who straight up admitted on Fox News that the radar and satellite data exists.

And the thing is, officials like Grusch, Lou Elizondo, and Chris Mellon have SEEN all of this data, given their various clearances. This whole push, in fact, is for as much of that data as possible to be released to the public, so more people - especially scientists - can get their hands on it, and help get to the bottom of this whole thing.

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This part of your post reminds me...has anyone asked flat out "why does this stuff need to be a secret?"

I'm sure we'd only get some canned national security answer, but I haven't yet seen or heard that question be asked by anyone. Maybe you have?

Also, I know the gov is probably prioritizing weapons/defense research first, but can you imagine some like Musk getting a look at this stuff? He'd probably already have flying Teslas.

Private sector would probably have a tech boom.

redline248 said:

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TCTTS said:

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Only *reports* of classified data so far. Reports of radar data, satellite data, reports of frequencies these craft are emitting, etc. We also reportedly have data on flight patterns and there are even rumors of us knowing how to "bait" craft in certain instances. There are also first-hand claims of super-hi-res photos and video of craft caught by our military. But again, it's all reportedly classified, though most these claims *do* come from credible officials, who have spoken on the record, including current members of Congress, former military/defense high ups, and even John Ratcliffe, Trump's former Director of National Intelligence, who straight up admitted on Fox News that the radar and satellite data exists.

And the thing is, officials like Grusch, Lou Elizondo, and Chris Mellon have SEEN all of this data, given their various clearances. This whole push, in fact, is for as much of that data as possible to be released to the public, so more people - especially scientists - can get their hands on it, and help get to the bottom of this whole thing.

---

This part of your post reminds me...has anyone asked flat out "why does this stuff need to be a secret?"

I'm sure we'd only get some canned national security answer, but I haven't yet seen or heard that question be asked by anyone. Maybe you have?

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From what I understand, as best I can communicate it (I'm admittedly not super knowledgeable about this aspect), it's the slippery slope of admitting anything whatsoever. If the gatekeepers admit that we have that kind of data, it won't be long until they have to admit that we've retrieved craft and bodies as well. And then, yeah, that gets into national security of a different kind, not from UAP, but from foreign adversaries like Russia and China, who may or may not have craft as well. Like Grusch says, it's a (potential) Cold War arms race to reverse engineer this stuff, and admitting anything to anyone outside of a very small circle risks our adversaries gaining an advantage over us, however small. Right now, we at least know that UAP aren't actively trying to harm us (unless provoked, potentially). But if Russia or China were to beat us to the punch, and develop, say, antigravity tech from these crafts before we do, it's game over.

If any of this is at all true, though, at this point it seems there's no putting the toothpaste back into the tube. So my guess is this ultimately leads to our government admitting something, and then eventually releasing some data. How long that will take, who knows, but it feels like it's really starting to snowball like never before.

All that said, I really do think "national security" is truly the issue. We used to think the secret was being kept for own good; so that society wouldn't fall into an existential crises with rioting in the streets and all that. But as time has passed, and this subject has become less taboo, it's also become obvious that most people honestly wouldn't give a sh*t if disclosure happened tomorrow, haha. Then there was the energy angle of it all, where conspiracy theorists were certain we had figured out how to reverse engineer these craft, create zero point energy from them, and that if introduced to the world, the fossil fuel market would crash and it'd be complete chaos. But if rumors are to be believed - again, from the more credible officials coming forward - we're not even close to reverse engineering the tech from these craft, never mind cracking zero point energy. So that basically only leaves us with the the threat of our terrestrial foreign adversaries figuring this stuff out before we do, which, honestly, to me, is a scarier prospect than aliens.