They've got time to build Isildur up to be a fallen hero. Canonically he does a lot of interesting stuff between now and the siege of Barad Durramblin_ag02 said:
I think the last few episodes of last season and all of this season were pretty good. I was a little bummed that it was over. Watching Sauron torture poor Celebrimbor was good writing. I'm actually looking forward to next season.
Also, Isildur is still the worst. He's basically the villian in this story for me. At least Sauron is clever, strong, and entertaining. Isildur is weak, cowardly, bumbling, and boring. And yes I'm aware of his future, and I'm hoping his terrible portrayal is on purpose
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They gave us 2 scenes to fill out his character. First was him talking about his mom dying and the 2nd was him talking about he realized he'd become small. They have a small foundation for him to become more, now. I can understand the annoyance with how they used him up to this point.ramblin_ag02 said:
I think the last few episodes of last season and all of this season were pretty good. I was a little bummed that it was over. Watching Sauron torture poor Celebrimbor was good writing. I'm actually looking forward to next season.
Also, Isildur is still the worst. He's basically the villian in this story for me. At least Sauron is clever, strong, and entertaining. Isildur is weak, cowardly, bumbling, and boring. And yes I'm aware of his future, and I'm hoping his terrible portrayal is on purpose
"No. You are their prisoner. Sauron, Lord of the Rings."
I had a revelation tonight while watching the most recent episode.
The guy that plays Tom Bombadil is the British Prime Minister in S1E1 of Black Mirror.
The guy that plays Tom Bombadil is the British Prime Minister in S1E1 of Black Mirror.
People gotta understand they don't have the rights to most of the story lines you consider canon
Yea but we know that. So you gotta either get over it or stop watching , lol.
here here!C@LAg said:or...PatAg said:
Yea but we know that. So you gotta either get over it or stop watching , lol.
I can continue watching and commenting on the lore breaking elements and ridiculous plotting, lol.
Using your reply, there would be no reason for the Football board here and it should be deleted.
While I've been a huge fan of the guy playing Sauron this year, Charles Edwards - who plays Celebrimbor - put on a master class of acting in the last several episodes, and the season finale was his peak.
Before he got famous on Downtown Abbey and The Crown, he was a really fantastic, well-regarded theater actor, and very critically acclaimed for his work in Shakespearean roles.
I would encourage anyone to rewatch the scene where he goads Sauron into killing him as straight out of Shakespeare 101 - two actors at a distance delivering really powerful dialogue, with the forced perspective shots of him pinned up on the column. Sauron thinks he's in control, but the way he tosses Celebrimbor up there, allows the elf to talk down to Sauron while Sauron is forced to look up at him. Think of how many times throughout this season that Sauron would appear on the landing above where Celebrimbor was working, or Sauron would be standing where Celebrimbor was seated. Now at this last moment, when Sauron feels like he's in complete power because he's coerced him into crafting the 7 and the 9, and all but killed him with arrow, Celebrimbor finds his strength and focuses his insight away from craftsmanship to break down Sauron's weaknesess so thoroughly that Sauron totally loses control and kills a guy that he could have used as a resource for ages upon ages.
Before he got famous on Downtown Abbey and The Crown, he was a really fantastic, well-regarded theater actor, and very critically acclaimed for his work in Shakespearean roles.
I would encourage anyone to rewatch the scene where he goads Sauron into killing him as straight out of Shakespeare 101 - two actors at a distance delivering really powerful dialogue, with the forced perspective shots of him pinned up on the column. Sauron thinks he's in control, but the way he tosses Celebrimbor up there, allows the elf to talk down to Sauron while Sauron is forced to look up at him. Think of how many times throughout this season that Sauron would appear on the landing above where Celebrimbor was working, or Sauron would be standing where Celebrimbor was seated. Now at this last moment, when Sauron feels like he's in complete power because he's coerced him into crafting the 7 and the 9, and all but killed him with arrow, Celebrimbor finds his strength and focuses his insight away from craftsmanship to break down Sauron's weaknesess so thoroughly that Sauron totally loses control and kills a guy that he could have used as a resource for ages upon ages.
FightinTexasAg15 said:
"No. You are their prisoner. Sauron, Lord of the Rings."
I thought the same thing when he said it.
It really is a great gif for that.
I mean, there are probably a lot of people that want it said and cheered. Spilner will probably find us a reaction video for it
(I'm teasing you my friend)
I mean, there are probably a lot of people that want it said and cheered. Spilner will probably find us a reaction video for it
(I'm teasing you my friend)
C@LAg said:and yet they are not telling any new stories here eitherPatAg said:
People gotta understand they don't have the rights to most of the story lines you consider canon
they are shadow-*******izing those same stories they "don't have the rights to"
the show is the Cliff Notes version of The Silmarillion for people with ADHD.
I'm OK with this
C@LAg said:or...PatAg said:
Yea but we know that. So you gotta either get over it or stop watching , lol.
I can continue watching and commenting on the lore breaking elements and ridiculous plotting, lol.
Using your reply, there would be no reason for the Football board here and it should be deleted.
Tolkien himself changed his lore all the time.
Another clue that the dark wizard is Saruman is that according to Wikipedia, Tolkien said that Saruman had black hair when he first came to middle earth, then it started going white. This guy has dark hair that is turning white.
I understand that the Gandalf of this show seems to not be able to ever remember anything, but that would be quite the stretch for him to forget Saramun being pretty morally evil right now.
redline248 said:
I understand that the Gandalf of this show seems to not be able to ever remember anything, but that would be quite the stretch for him to forget Saramun being pretty morally evil right now.
I agree with that, and that fact keeps me from 100% thinking he is Saruman, but they will probably hand wave it away by coming up with some reason to make Gandalf forget.
they nailed the balrog
It occurs to me we may actually get to see Barad-Dur get built, as well as Sauron sitting on his Dark Throne.
How cool will that be?
How cool will that be?
Finished this season up yesterday. Really enjoyed it.
Season highs that I can recall:
The actors for Celebrimbor and Sauron both did very well, loved seeing that whole plot develop.
The action was great, it is extremely refreshing to see so much live action and prosthetics for this.
Galadriel was better this season, better acting and less still-faced line delivery.
Elrond also was more believable and it was nice to see the Elrond and Durin/Dwarf relationship develop.
Adar was great. It was neat to see his character develop.
Cons:
I got kinda bored of the Numenor stuff and the Isildur stuff. The Numenor stuff seemed a bit more CW show quality. Only good part was the action in the temple and the lead up to that. The queen/king deal was not interesting. I just didn't care for the acting or dialogue here. I think I mentioned it earlier on the thread, but the waffling of the people in Numenor between Queen support and king support was very bland. There was just not much of an interesting or even believable story here.
As for Isildur, it's been mentioned already, but dude is a weakling. I am also guessing that turns around next season. That kid too was super annoying and I just didn't care for the plot surrounding these 2.
There are definitely more pros that I am forgetting. Overall just an entertaining season.
Season highs that I can recall:
The actors for Celebrimbor and Sauron both did very well, loved seeing that whole plot develop.
The action was great, it is extremely refreshing to see so much live action and prosthetics for this.
Galadriel was better this season, better acting and less still-faced line delivery.
Elrond also was more believable and it was nice to see the Elrond and Durin/Dwarf relationship develop.
Adar was great. It was neat to see his character develop.
Cons:
I got kinda bored of the Numenor stuff and the Isildur stuff. The Numenor stuff seemed a bit more CW show quality. Only good part was the action in the temple and the lead up to that. The queen/king deal was not interesting. I just didn't care for the acting or dialogue here. I think I mentioned it earlier on the thread, but the waffling of the people in Numenor between Queen support and king support was very bland. There was just not much of an interesting or even believable story here.
As for Isildur, it's been mentioned already, but dude is a weakling. I am also guessing that turns around next season. That kid too was super annoying and I just didn't care for the plot surrounding these 2.
There are definitely more pros that I am forgetting. Overall just an entertaining season.
Its CW or like, early 2000s SciFi quality. I don't get it, because that could be really easy to do better. Just a lot of bad writing and acting in that part of the story.Chipotlemonger said:
Finished this season up yesterday. Really enjoyed it.
Season highs that I can recall:
The actors for Celebrimbor and Sauron both did very well, loved seeing that whole plot develop.
The action was great, it is extremely refreshing to see so much live action and prosthetics for this.
Galadriel was better this season, better acting and less still-faced line delivery.
Elrond also was more believable and it was nice to see the Elrond and Durin/Dwarf relationship develop.
Adar was great. It was neat to see his character develop.
Cons:
I got kinda bored of the Numenor stuff and the Isildur stuff. The Numenor stuff seemed a bit more CW show quality. Only good part was the action in the temple and the lead up to that. The queen/king deal was not interesting. I just didn't care for the acting or dialogue here. I think I mentioned it earlier on the thread, but the waffling of the people in Numenor between Queen support and king support was very bland. There was just not much of an interesting or even believable story here.
As for Isildur, it's been mentioned already, but dude is a weakling. I am also guessing that turns around next season. That kid too was super annoying and I just didn't care for the plot surrounding these 2.
There are definitely more pros that I am forgetting. Overall just an entertaining season.
I wonder if they have a separate writing team for that part of the story. It's like they wanted the political intrigue of Game of Thrones, but they can't really spend enough time on it for anyone to care about the characters. Also, they are kind of making up their own stuff without really getting into why there is a split among the people. I think they briefly touched on why there is animosity with the elves in season 1, but in general I don't think it's been sufficiently fleshed out. Instead we are likely to get a fast track to the destruction of Numenorrrrr (that's me rolling the R like the show does).
I wonder if they will take Sauron back there and do the whole attack on Valinor. Maybe they make Pharazon one of the men to receive a ring?
I wonder if they will take Sauron back there and do the whole attack on Valinor. Maybe they make Pharazon one of the men to receive a ring?
I bet pharazon is the first to receive a ring. Maybe eventually the witch king
My gut feeling is that it is Saruman, but Gandalf somehow pops him out of corruption mode by the end of the show and Saruman is back to normal until heel turn #2.TXAG 05 said:
Another clue that the dark wizard is Saruman is that according to Wikipedia, Tolkien said that Saruman had black hair when he first came to middle earth, then it started going white. This guy has dark hair that is turning white.
This is also one of my gripes with the Numenor plot. I don't remember if they touched on the Elros/Elrond thing and the fact the Numenorean nobility are descendants of Elros and kind of jealous of the Elves and their immortality. If they did, it was clearly poorly done since so many people seem to be confused about the Numenor schism.redline248 said:
I wonder if they have a separate writing team for that part of the story. It's like they wanted the political intrigue of Game of Thrones, but they can't really spend enough time on it for anyone to care about the characters. Also, they are kind of making up their own stuff without really getting into why there is a split among the people. I think they briefly touched on why there is animosity with the elves in season 1, but in general I don't think it's been sufficiently fleshed out. Instead we are likely to get a fast track to the destruction of Numenorrrrr (that's me rolling the R like the show does).
I wonder if they will take Sauron back there and do the whole attack on Valinor. Maybe they make Pharazon one of the men to receive a ring?
I feel like Galadriel had a throw away line about Elros in S1 when she was researching Sauron's mark there, but I could be making that up. I agree with you, I have felt that was lacking as well.
Great call. Especially after Queen Blindey McNoSight got reaffirmed by powerful magic, he'll be ready to get the people back on his side again.JCRiley09 said:
I bet pharazon is the first to receive a ring. Maybe eventually the witch king
I definitely agree all of that intrigue is like watching some network TV 90s version of King Arthur or a book series I never read. If you're watching without knowing the story and knowing Isildur and his dad's roles, it must be torture.
On the other side of things, I happened to pause the show at exactly this moment last week and had to appreciate the reference to Elrond's speech in the book version of FOTR at the Council of Elrond.
'I was the herald of Gil-galad and marched with his host.
Also usually I give a horselaugh to the forced diversity but the female Asian elf? wood (elf)
I think you're right, the nerdy part of me wishes they at least acknowledged the impact of some of these familial interconnections in the show. They don't have to get all Game of Thrones and delve into every single third cousin of a major character but I think it would help highlight how tragic some of the 2nd Age stuff really wasRed Five said:
I feel like Galadriel had a throw away line about Elros in S1 when she was researching Sauron's mark there, but I could be making that up. I agree with you, I have felt that was lacking as well.
Has it been mentioned that Miriel and Pharazon are literally first cousins?
My memory of S1 is so bad.
My memory of S1 is so bad.
Another part I can't remember if it actually happened or not, but Galadriel said that Celeborn died in battle right? He definitely did not, which means she's basically spent the entire second age thinking he's dead. Which raises the question, where is he that she wouldn't have heard he was still alive? It's been what, a thousand years? I know they've been a little fast and loose with the timeline but this one i have no idea how they are going to reconcile.
Oh dang, I barely remember that. Was she talking about Celeborn or her brother? Yeah, it makes zero sense
I did some digging and according to the internet, in S1E7 she tells Theo that her husband Celeborn went off to war against Morgoth and never came home. So I didn't imagine it. Granted they are not following the generally accepted timeline, but still that means that was before Galadriel began hunting Sauron. I don't remember if she ever explicitly said how long that went on, but i feel like it was implied that it was hundreds, if not thousands of years. Anyway, we know that went on long enough that most elves tired of the fighting and believed Sauron didn't even exist anymore and that it was enough time for her to claim to have killed more orcs than any elf alive.
Just within the scope of the show she's been from the Forodwaith in the far north, all through Eriador, and down into the Southlands. I don't know where Celeborn could be that she wouldn't have come across him or he at least wouldn't have heard of her. Maybe she was such a nag at home that he is hiding out on Legolas's couch in Mirkwood.
Just within the scope of the show she's been from the Forodwaith in the far north, all through Eriador, and down into the Southlands. I don't know where Celeborn could be that she wouldn't have come across him or he at least wouldn't have heard of her. Maybe she was such a nag at home that he is hiding out on Legolas's couch in Mirkwood.
Anyway, all that aside I really like the show and thought the second season was awesome.
Red Five said:
I did some digging and according to the internet, in S1E7 she tells Theo that her husband Celeborn went off to war against Morgoth and never came home. So I didn't imagine it. Granted they are not following the generally accepted timeline, but still that means that was before Galadriel began hunting Sauron. I don't remember if she ever explicitly said how long that went on, but i feel like it was implied that it was hundreds, if not thousands of years. Anyway, we know that went on long enough that most elves tired of the fighting and believed Sauron didn't even exist anymore and that it was enough time for her to claim to have killed more orcs than any elf alive.
Just within the scope of the show she's been from the Forodwaith in the far north, all through Eriador, and down into the Southlands. I don't know where Celeborn could be that she wouldn't have come across him or he at least wouldn't have heard of her. Maybe she was such a nag at home that he is hiding out on Legolas's couch in Mirkwood.
I did my own digging - apparently Tolkien never established whether Legolas was around in the 2nd Age, but his dad Thranduil was. Wonder if we get a Thranduil appearance at some point.
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