They probably just started with the idea that it would be Amarillo and then realized that Amarillo didn't exist in 1883.

I love love love Elsa and Ennis together and hope that preview scene with the Indians was just a dream!!!

I knew that in the first episode, but I don't want it to be the case.

denied said:

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Nope… pretty sure she is dead based on everything (can it even be called foreshadowing?) that has already been revealed. Add in from Yellowstone that "Dutton" women don't live very long. Plus the song she was singing to the cows, it is a song across life/afterlife.

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Quote:

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"The song tells of a lover serenading a "Beautiful Dreamer" who is oblivious to worldly cares and may actually be dead. Foster's works feature many dead young women, including his sister Charlotte"

1.
Beautiful dreamer, wake unto me,
Starlight and dewdrops are waiting for thee;
Sounds of the rude world, heard in the day,
Lull'd by the moonlight have all passed away!
Beautiful dreamer, queen of my song,
List while I woo thee with soft melody;
Gone are the cares of life's busy throng,
Beautiful dreamer, awake unto me!
Beautiful dreamer, awake unto me!

2.
Beautiful dreamer, out on the sea,
Mermaids are chanting the wild lorelei;
Over the streamlet vapors are borne,
Waiting to fade at the bright coming morn.
Beautiful dreamer, beam on my heart,
E'en as the morn on the streamlet and sea;
Then will all clouds of sorrow depart,
Beautiful dreamer, awake unto me!
Beautiful dreamer, awake unto me!

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Interesting

This is a stretch, but Shea Brennan in his dream is attacking confederate artillery positions. Dutton looked like he was commanding one at Antietam in the flashback.

Wonder if they were on the same field.

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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This is a stretch, but Shea Brennan in his dream is attacking confederate artillery positions. Dutton looked like he was commanding/defending one at Antietam in the flashback.

Wonder if they were on the same field.

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Yeah I've been waiting for that "twist".
Would seem a little too lazy but who knows?

SWC Ag said:

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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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This is a stretch, but Shea Brennan in his dream is attacking confederate artillery positions. Dutton looked like he was commanding/defending one at Antietam in the flashback.

Wonder if they were on the same field.

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Yeah I've been waiting for that "twist".
Would seem a little too lazy but who knows?

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Could be why the show has them antagonizing each other currently, only to find common ground later.

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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SWC Ag said:

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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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This is a stretch, but Shea Brennan in his dream is attacking confederate artillery positions. Dutton looked like he was commanding/defending one at Antietam in the flashback.

Wonder if they were on the same field.

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Yeah I've been waiting for that "twist".
Would seem a little too lazy but who knows?

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Could be why the show has them antagonizing each other currently, only to find common ground later.

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Both being Civil War vets is common ground enough. Having them on the same battlefield just feels trite to me.

Maybe they can replicate the Clint Eastwood movie where he used gunpowder to push it through. Tho I think his was just in the shoulder!

SWC Ag said:

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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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SWC Ag said:

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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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This is a stretch, but Shea Brennan in his dream is attacking confederate artillery positions. Dutton looked like he was commanding/defending one at Antietam in the flashback.

Wonder if they were on the same field.

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Yeah I've been waiting for that "twist".
Would seem a little too lazy but who knows?

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Could be why the show has them antagonizing each other currently, only to find common ground later.

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Both being Civil War vets is common ground enough. Having them on the same battlefield just feels trite to me.

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If we want to trite more, the emancipation proclamation was issued 5 days after Antietam, which may be relevant to Thomas, the other Pinkerton agent.

Doubt the show will go that far.

Yea I'm just not buying that a teenage girl from Tennessee is going to know about a newly settled town 150 miles West of Fort Worth even exist.

Maybe Elsa lives but is unable to have children because of the arrow to her gut?

10Aggie10 said:

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The following post is regarding 1883 scenes seen in a Yellowstone episode (#8 maybe?):

There is a flashback of James rounding up the cattle thieves
in the scene, John (who is a small boy at the beginning of 1883) is a late tween/early teenager. It also appears that the Duttons have had another son; Elsa is not present but I guess that could be because she's married.

Anyways. I think her absence means that she doesn't make it. Also, I've been wondering since I saw that scene if we witnessed James' death before the first episode of 1883 even aired

I spoiler tagged these thoughts because I don't know if Yellowstone material is acceptable fodder for this thread. I just thought it might be relevant to the Elsa discussion

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I have been thinking the same thing about this scene and Elsa's absence. I think she's married, though she certainly could be dead.

Didn't that scene conclude with Faith Hill screaming?

Thanks for the rec to read Wagons West! I started it last night, and it's pretty great.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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If they crossed the Brazos heading west out of Ft. Worth (which is well established) and then turned north to Abilene, KS they would have to cross the Brazos again, plus the Red river which they talked about not crossing.

Makes no sense.




Just like how the immigrants got to Ft. Worth - we are not supposed to care about these details.

He wanted to start from Hells Half Acre regardless of logic.
He wanted to show crossing the Brazos regardless of logic.
He wants them to go to Abilene regardless of logic.

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This is true.....he obviously is going to have them encounter Indians on the trail....regardless of logic....because they were NOT a threat on the Plains by 1883.
In addition, 1883 saw one of the first major fence cutting wars in Texas.....they most likely would have dealt with places filled with barbed wire in 1883 as over half the counties in Texas were fenced by that time....regardless of logic.

I read an article in Parade where Sam Elliot raves about TS "knowing his history and the west"......apparently not quite!! Great show however...I'm truly enjoying it and enjoying the historical discussion that goes along with it! Kudos to TS for at least making a "western!" He also does a great job with the major characters! I appreciate the discussion!!

TXAGFAN said:

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It's a good show, but if we could get a cutting horse scene it would be GREAT!

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Or worse, that reining horse sliding crap!

I'm glad the route bothers some of y'all as well. It really bugged me why they would be crossing the Brazos from Fort Worth

I need someone to explain to me how people could drown in the river if other people could walk across it - while holding a rope. My husband and I went round and round about this last night. He pointed out that Shea said people panic and act wildly, but that doesn't change the fact that the water is shallow enough to walk through…and you're holding onto a rope.

There was a ledge in the river with a decent drop off. John was showing them the path before they went across where the ledge was. That may have been part of it along with the panic but I agree with you, when Faith Hill stood up in waist deep water I was surprised it wasn't deeper myself.

Right; I knew they had to walk a certain path. My husband kept pointing out that parts of it were deeper. I guess I didn't understand why she let go of the rope.

I'm deathly afraid of deep water. Horrified. But…I feel like if I have a rope and several dozen other people to guide me across, I might just hold onto the rope. It's not like they were in the rapids.

I know this is a stupid thing to nit-pick, but it bothers the hell out of me.