***1883 Season 1***

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aggierogue
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In reply to Thisguy1 • 8:45p, 1/9/22
AG
Thisguy1 said:
River scene was pretty intense. From the start of the piano to the end with the comedic relief was awesome.

The cowboy in love is one of my favorite characters. Lots of good one liners.
Yeah, I like him. Loved the the response to her sad song.

The ONLY part of this show that is getting a little annoying to me (besides the waxed eyebrows and perfect teeth) is Sam Elliott's continuous ranting on everyone.

Could watch the show for hours though, and we are always disappointed how fast the episodes go.
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98Ag99Grad
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In reply to aggierogue • 8:50p, 1/9/22
AG
Wife and I said same thing about Elliott. I know he's trying to keep them alive but damn dude, they don't know any better and it's all they have.
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TXAG 05
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9:01p, 1/9/22
AG
I had to look it up, but I didn't know that the Brazos went that far north.
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$3 Sack of Groceries
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In reply to White Liberals=The Worst • 9:53p, 1/9/22
AG
Wycliffe_03 said:
I bet that's how a lot of cowboy types would have pronounced it back then. I know generational Texans who butcher "Rio Grande" along with the names of other rivers, towns and geographical landmarks.

To me, this show is so good I don't find myself getting hung up on minor inaccuracies or questionable pronunciations. If someone can't enjoy this show because if technicalities or inaccuracies, I am not sure what they could enjoy aside from maybe documentary style or non-fiction movies and books. This show seems to go to great lengths to keep things pretty genuine.

I did find myself wondering if they would have used the phrase "traffic jam" back then though. But I don't really care.


Tap the brakes a bit there. Never said I wasn't enjoying the show, quite the opposite. I thought my comment was pretty clearly lighthearted.

The Spanish pronunciation explanation is what I chalked it up to as soon as I heard it, I'm just not sure that a Yankee would be more prone to using that than Elsa, who pronounced it like we do nowadays.

Also I thought the Brazos/Colorado naming mixup was pretty common knowledge…..That a map maker screwed up Colorado (red colored) with Brazos (arms). Guess not.
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White Liberals=The Worst
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In reply to 98Ag99Grad • 9:54p, 1/9/22
98Ag99Grad said:
Wife and I said same thing about Elliott. I know he's trying to keep them alive but damn dude, they don't know any better and it's all they have.


To be fair, he HAS been through some pretty extreme sh** in his adult life, and that is before having to burn down his house with his dead wife and daughter inside who had suffered and died alone of smallpox while he was gone. He has crazy PTSD dreams and has fantasized about blowing his head off.

I think he's a wreck inside and does a good job of holding that together. And also that he really does want to help these people and can't stand it when they die. This episode did a lot to portray him as someone who had sympathy for them and how they have been oppressed their entire lives, deep down. He's learning more about them and they're growing on him.
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EclipseAg
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9:54p, 1/9/22
AG
Fantastic episode. Very moving.

The images of all the furniture left behind, and then Elsa playing the piano while the rest of the group struggled to cross the river ... that was amazing.
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Hey Nav
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10:21p, 1/9/22
AG
I feel for the cowboy who is courting Elsa.

I've been a very protective Papa , so I can relate to James Dalton.
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p_bubel
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10:40p, 1/9/22
Damn, this is good.
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combat wombat™
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10:43p, 1/9/22
AG
I loved this episode.

Wondering how hard it is to hold onto a rope while walking across a river? Didn't seem like it'd be that hard if your life formed on it because you couldn't swim.

It's heartbreaking that these people had to leave behind so much. Especially the musician. But the cowboys comment about them expecting the road west to be paved rang very true.


I honestly don't understand why now women didn't wear pants on the journey west. Hell, maybe they did. Seems insane to try to cross s river in skirts.
I
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Jason_Roofer
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In reply to wbt5845 • 12:44a, 1/10/22
wbt5845 said:
SWC Ag said:
Great episode. I just wish someone would tech Sam Elliot how to say "Brazos". "Brah-zos" makes me cringe everyone I hear it.

My understanding is the pronunciation of that river has changed over the years. His pronunciation might be period correct.


It is. Most of the towns in Texas that you are familiar with have been whitified and *******ized a great deal. Considering the Rio de los Brazos isn't exactly an Anglo Saxon name, I prefer the pronunciation as it should be.

Also, as to the Germans going to Fort Worth from Galveston, it may be be true. We are fortunate to live in the original house built in the mid 1800's on the original land granted by the republic for our original family member settlers. Our Germans came over from Bremen in 1845 and went west towards San Antonio. I can't say how each would have decided but I believe it's based on who brought you as to where you're final destination was going to be.

I have a friend that move here from Germany…decades ago…and we often talk about leaving your homeland. I don't know about it other than what I know from our familiy history accounts which are well documented, but you have to imagine the desire for someon to leave everything they know and own in order to cross an entire ocean to a country that is wild and unknown because some dude said it was a good idea. Imagine how bad things must be where you are to willingly do such a thing. Then, as the case for our family, riding in wagons from Galveston to a s hole like San Antonio with nothing but a few items and making a new life from scratch. I mean, most have no idea what this is like.

My buddy said "most had very little to give up. Many are fleeing a terrible life, a lot were criminals, and they've been given an opportunity to start over with some money and a bunch of land."

So that's another perspective. Either way, I'd kind of suspect most items would've been jettisoned at the port. Really puts "life is hard" into perspective.

This is by far the best episode for me. You can FEEL this one.
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CrottyKid
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6:29a, 1/10/22
AG
If they were smart, they would have sold all that stuff in Galveston or Dallas. There would have been a market at that time for European furniture and musical instruments, especially in Galveston.
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combat wombat™
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In reply to CrottyKid • 7:29a, 1/10/22
AG
CrottyKid said:
If they were smart, they would have sold all that stuff in Galveston or Dallas. There would have been a market at that time for European furniture and musical instruments, especially in Galveston.


I was thinking that last night.
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p_bubel
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9:06a, 1/10/22
Indianola was originally the main port for the Adelsverein, which disbanded in 1850s, and for the colonies north of Fredericksburg and west of New Braunfels. It was wiped out a second time in 1887 and never rebuilt. Galveston took over as the main port of entry in 1880, with a direct Bremen to Galveston route, IIRC.

The Germans of Texas
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ChoppinDs40
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In reply to combat wombat™ • 9:08a, 1/10/22
AG
combat wombat said:
CrottyKid said:
If they were smart, they would have sold all that stuff in Galveston or Dallas. There would have been a market at that time for European furniture and musical instruments, especially in Galveston.


I was thinking that last night.


But they weren't. They were naive and planned to take it all the way. I just loved the pics of them sitting in wooden dining chairs, kicked back. Lol. They were about to travel a similar distance, on foot or wagon as going from Kiev, Ukraine to Madrid, Spain. Distances people didn't even move on their own continent.

But they had no real idea how far it was. That area of Europe had been in constant war, persecution of Protestants, etc. for centuries. I see why they would want to leave.
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EclipseAg
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9:09a, 1/10/22
AG
Questions for history buffs:

1) Was it common for Texas wagon trains to travel straight west through southern New Mexico and Arizona before heading north (I assume once they reach California)? Rather than heading north to Kansas or Nebraska first? I suppose the advantage was that you miss the Rocky Mountains, but the tradeoff was the Sonoran desert?

2) What's a good book that details the migration west? Always been fascinated by the topic but I've never read much about it.
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$3 Sack of Groceries
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In reply to EclipseAg • 9:51a, 1/10/22
AG
EclipseAg said:
Questions for history buffs:

1) Was it common for Texas wagon trains to travel straight west through southern New Mexico and Arizona before heading north (I assume once they reach California)? Rather than heading north to Kansas or Nebraska first? I suppose the advantage was that you miss the Rocky Mountains, but the tradeoff was the Sonoran desert?

2) What's a good book that details the migration west? Always been fascinated by the topic but I've never read much about it.


Don't know how detailed you wanna get but Wagons West by Frank McLynn was a good read (been a number of years since I read it though). Keep in ind this is NOT the Wagons West historical fiction series. McLynn's is a stand alone volume.
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Jason_Roofer
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In reply to ChoppinDs40 • 9:56a, 1/10/22
ChoppinDs40 said:
combat wombat said:
CrottyKid said:
If they were smart, they would have sold all that stuff in Galveston or Dallas. There would have been a market at that time for European furniture and musical instruments, especially in Galveston.


I was thinking that last night.


But they weren't. They were naive and planned to take it all the way. I just loved the pics of them sitting in wooden dining chairs, kicked back. Lol. They were about to travel a similar distance, on foot or wagon as going from Kiev, Ukraine to Madrid, Spain. Distances people didn't even move on their own continent.

But they had no real idea how far it was. That area of Europe had been in constant war, persecution of Protestants, etc. for centuries. I see why they would want to leave.


Our ancestors ship sank in 1845 in Galveston bay upon arrival. His entire family died and he was saved as a small child and subsequently adopted by another family. Because of that change in fate, he was quite successful in Medina county and how all of us came to even exist. I cannot imagine going to a new world knowing you have your family only to lose them as well upon arrival. The mental toughness it takes to carry on and beat the unknown must be incredible.
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Bighunter43
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In reply to EclipseAg • 11:46a, 1/10/22
AG
EclipseAg said:
Questions for history buffs:

1) Was it common for Texas wagon trains to travel straight west through southern New Mexico and Arizona before heading north (I assume once they reach California)? Rather than heading north to Kansas or Nebraska first? I suppose the advantage was that you miss the Rocky Mountains, but the tradeoff was the Sonoran desert?

2) What's a good book that details the migration west? Always been fascinated by the topic but I've never read much about it.
The Oregon Trail was mostly used from 1840-70....kind of came to a halt during the Plains Indian Wars during the 1870's....but was somewhat back in use by 1880 (no Indian Trouble at that point). The number one jumping off point was from Independence, Mo. where you'd leave in Spring.....across the plains during Spring....over the Rockies at South Pass, Wy in summer, then on to Oregon.

As for Texans, you'd think you'd travel north until you intersected the trail somewhere on the Great Plains....

Accidents were the number one cause of death on the trail...and river crossings were especially dangerous!! So TS certainly nailed the river crossing!
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EclipseAg
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In reply to $3 Sack of Groceries • 12:29p, 1/10/22
AG
SWC Ag said:
EclipseAg said:
Questions for history buffs:

1) Was it common for Texas wagon trains to travel straight west through southern New Mexico and Arizona before heading north (I assume once they reach California)? Rather than heading north to Kansas or Nebraska first? I suppose the advantage was that you miss the Rocky Mountains, but the tradeoff was the Sonoran desert?

2) What's a good book that details the migration west? Always been fascinated by the topic but I've never read much about it.


Don't know how detailed you wanna get but Wagons West by Frank McLynn was a good read (been a number of years since I read it though).
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check it out.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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1:16p, 1/10/22
AG
Made me think they were gonna kill off Momma for a second there.

Damn good episode.

Bravest thing I've seen on the show is the Cowboy flirting with the daughter. Then he gets caught kissing her and says "You gonna shoot me?" to daddy...... Anyway he cracks me up. Lucky to be alive though.

Daughters character is so key to this - obviously - they nailed her part she is great.



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_lefraud_
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 1:35p, 1/10/22
AG
James gave the cowboy his permission to court her, just not to get handsy
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JCA1
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In reply to _lefraud_ • 1:49p, 1/10/22
AG
_lefraud_ said:
James gave the cowboy his permission to court her, just not to get handsy


Best acting McGraw has done on the show so far is the look he gave the cowboy when he said "define handsy."
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Jason_Roofer
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1:55p, 1/10/22
I have a question. This may be really stupid but I'm going to ask anyway….we hear a lot of discussion about the Brazos and the treachery in crossing it. In this last episode, I think they did cross it.

Anyway, they started this little party in Fort Worth. I'm trying to understand what in hells earth they are doing anything with the Brazos. Are they using Apple Maps or what because that's quite out of the way? They are going to have to cross that twice! Anyway, I'm lost and willing to look like a dimbasss to understand. If it's just movie magic and using rivers that people know for the viewers, that's ok too.
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13B
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 2:05p, 1/10/22
I think Eddie Murphy said it best, " Lack of P...er kitty make a man brave!".
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combat wombat™
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2:08p, 1/10/22
AG
They started in FT Worth and are headed towards Abilene (Elsa told the German from whom she bought the pants that the gold would buy whatever they wanted in Abilene). You have to cross the Brazos to get to Abilene from Ft Worth.
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Bighunter43
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In reply to combat wombat™ • 2:19p, 1/10/22
AG
combat wombat said:
They started in FT Worth and are headed towards Abilene (Elsa told the German from whom she bought the pants that the gold would buy whatever they wanted in Abilene). You have to cross the Brazos to get to Abilene from Ft Worth.
I'm pretty sure they are headed to Abilene, Kansas which was a well established city by then, and Texans had been going there for years on cattle drives after the Civil War. You don't have to cross the Brazos to get to Abilene, Kansas from Fort Worth....but makes a great river crossing story (there's plenty of other rivers to cross). If you mean Abilene, Tx.....then I'm not sure why they would be heading that way (and Abilene, Tx had only been established in 1881, so it couldn't be this all important place to stop in 1883).....just my guess and I could be wrong on which Abilene they are headed to.
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combat wombat™
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In reply to Bighunter43 • 2:55p, 1/10/22
AG
I had assumed Abilene, Texas. I don't know what route they're taking... but they did state, often, that they were heading "west". Abilene, KS is north, not west, of Ft. Worth.
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$3 Sack of Groceries
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In reply to Bighunter43 • 2:56p, 1/10/22
AG
Bighunter43 said:
combat wombat said:
They started in FT Worth and are headed towards Abilene (Elsa told the German from whom she bought the pants that the gold would buy whatever they wanted in Abilene). You have to cross the Brazos to get to Abilene from Ft Worth.
I'm pretty sure they are headed to Abilene, Kansas which was a well established city by then, and Texans had been going there for years on cattle drives after the Civil War. You don't have to cross the Brazos to get to Abilene, Kansas from Fort Worth....but makes a great river crossing story (there's plenty of other rivers to cross). If you mean Abilene, Tx.....then I'm not sure why they would be heading that way (and Abilene, Tx had only been established in 1881, so it couldn't be this all important place to stop in 1883).....just my guess and I could be wrong on which Abilene they are headed to.


It's Abilene, TX. They're heading west, then north.
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Bighunter43
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In reply to combat wombat™ • 3:02p, 1/10/22
AG
combat wombat said:
I had assumed Abilene, Texas. I don't know what route they're taking... but they did state, often, that they were heading "west". Abilene, KS is north, not west, of Ft. Worth.


No doubt.....But it's not just "west"....Abilene is SOUTHwest from Fort Worth.....I was assuming they'd turn north and go through Kansas...
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Zombie Jon Snow
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3:06p, 1/10/22
AG

We might need to give up on any geographical accuracy in this story.


If you were heading to Oregon there is no way you would head due West to Abilene, Texas because you are just gonna hit the lower part of the Sante Fe trail and end up well below the rockies with no northbound trail really. I mean you could in theory take the Old Spanish trail up and then cut through the rockies but it's a death wish.

But they crossed the Brazos and you would only do that heading West.

If you were heading north - which you should to join the Oregon trail eventually - then you would never cross the Brazos.

This is circa 1860 but it was not much different in 1883 except there were train options.




All in all - it's a bad plan no matter which way they go. I'm pretty sure everyone but the Duttons and maybe Sam Elliot and the black guy dies and they opt to stay in what becomes Montana.


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Mad Hatter
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 4:20p, 1/10/22
AG
Zombie Jon Snow said:

We might need to give up on any geographical accuracy in this story.

This.

They were on the banks of the Red River a few episodes ago, now they're crossing the Brazos and heading to Abilene? Mark me down on team Shea for navigational strategy.
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CondensedFogAggie
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4:42p, 1/10/22
For those in the know, was Oregon really that great a destination to be worth the dangers?

I'm sure the farmlands are rich, but so is a lot of the US. And as far as I know there weren't many large markets to buy agricultural goods in the area at that time.

I also would think that Oregon would be a much more populous/prosperous state by now, but maybe not as many actually used the Oregon Trail, or the state is actually doing much better than I realize.
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Jason_Roofer
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In reply to Mad Hatter • 4:43p, 1/10/22
Mad Hatter said:
Zombie Jon Snow said:

We might need to give up on any geographical accuracy in this story.

This.

They were on the banks of the Red River a few episodes ago, now they're crossing the Brazos and heading to Abilene? Mark me down on team Shea for navigational strategy.


Yeah, that's cool. I just wanted to make sure my head was on straight with It all.
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JayHowdy!
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 4:55p, 1/10/22
Zombie Jon Snow said:

We might need to give up on any geographical accuracy in this story.


If you were heading to Oregon there is no way you would head due West to Abilene, Texas because you are just gonna hit the lower part of the Sante Fe trail and end up well below the rockies with no northbound trail really. I mean you could in theory take the Old Spanish trail up and then cut through the rockies but it's a death wish.

But they crossed the Brazos and you would only do that heading West.

If you were heading north - which you should to join the Oregon trail eventually - then you would never cross the Brazos.

This is circa 1860 but it was not much different in 1883 except there were train options.




All in all - it's a bad plan no matter which way they go. I'm pretty sure everyone but the Duttons and maybe Sam Elliot and the black guy dies and they opt to stay in what becomes Montana.


Not to mention the Dutton Ranch in Montana is still 150 miles to the north of the Oregon Trail. It will be interesting on how they end up there. They have to turn north and hit the Oregon Trail at some point to get anywhere near where they end up settling.
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_lefraud_
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5:06p, 1/10/22
AG
From reddit



It's not completely "wrong" that they could have been camped by the Trinity (or at least one of the forks) and then went North to the banks of the Red River before deciding to head West, where they would have to cross the Brazos. Yea, they would be doing some detouring, but again, not completely out of the realm of possibility.

As for the Abilene, I assume it is Abilene, Kansas. That was probably the plan when they were heading straight North, but the plan deviated by going West, and maybe Elsa just isn't aware of the new route.

Doesn't matter, it's a tv show...a good one (so far) at that.
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