PatAg said:

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The whole notion of Tor Valun bothers me, and I don't get why it's exciting to others. It makes no sense within the context of what the previous 8 movies taught us about the Sith.

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There's no way Palpatine would have left a rival alive. If there's one thing the movies have proven is that the Sith are working together until it's no longer suitable, and then they off each other or get offed themselves. Having Palpatine be the servant of a 7,000 year old sith Lord would have been much more disappointing than Old Man Palpatine clinging to life.

Agree to disagree, especially if that 7000 year old Sith Lord is more of an embodiment of evil than a human like character that could show up at a senate meeting.

You're probably right, but it depends on how it was going to be presented. From what I gather, Tor Valum doesn't sound like your run-of-mill, power-hungry Sith Lord, but more like a wellspring of Sith knowledge, likely bound to his home world because of his shape/state. In other words, he could have been some kind of Sith entity outside of the rule of two and all that.

You beat me to it, but yeah, same general point.

My main thought about that storyline is that feels really late in the trilogy for Kylo to start training with somebody

Here is Tor Valun.

Ag Since 83 said:

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My main thought about that storyline is that feels really late in the trilogy for Kylo to start training with somebody

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I do agree with that.

Ag Since 83 said:

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My main thought about that storyline is that feels really late in the trilogy for Kylo to start training with somebody

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Well he fired his last coach. Why wouldn't he look for a new one?

amercer said:

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Agree to disagree, especially if that 7000 year old Sith Lord is more of an embodiment of evil than a human like character that could show up at a senate meeting.

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A really funny movie would be Palpatine sitting through countless senate meetings with a non-stop internal monologue about how he wanted to kill everyone there. Looking at his Blackberry, noticing he's supposed to be training Maul how to construct a double-bladed lightsaber this afternoon, but he's going to have to push it back to 6 p.m. because the Senator from Ryloth is having a baby shower.

That isn't too far off from the robot chicken Palpatine skits.

Palpatine meets Veep is the most genius idea in the galaxy.

The most glaring problem with this script to me is that Colin Trevorrow would have been directing.

MuckRaker96 said:

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amercer said:

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Agree to disagree, especially if that 7000 year old Sith Lord is more of an embodiment of evil than a human like character that could show up at a senate meeting.

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A really funny movie would be Palpatine sitting through countless senate meetings with a non-stop internal monologue about how he wanted to kill everyone there. Looking at his Blackberry, noticing he's supposed to be training Maul how to construct a double-bladed lightsaber this afternoon, but he's going to have to push it back to 6 p.m. because the Senator from Ryloth is having a baby shower.

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i think i just realized my true calling on the TexAgs Entertainment board is no longer trying to defend the sequel trilogy, but writing this story. see you dudes in a few weeks.

TCTTS said:

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Ag Since 83 said:

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My main thought about that storyline is that feels really late in the trilogy for Kylo to start training with somebody

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I do agree with that.

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And Master Yoda had these same reservations.....yet here we are.

He is too old. Too old to begin the training.

I'm looking forward to this.

I Have Spoken said:

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That isn't too far off from the robot chicken Palpatine skits.

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I hadn't seen that in a while so I went to take a look and stumbled across this one. I hadn't seen it before. LMAO.

Can we get a film adaptation of the Mon Calamari ballet Squid Lake? Has to be better than Cats, right?

I saw earlier in the thread people wanting Anakin to be the one haunting Kylo Ren. I am not sure if this proves out, but my theory on force ghosts is that they can only appear to people who knew that person when they were alive.

Obi Wan -- Shows up to Luke
Yoda -- Luke
Anakin -- Luke (then some retcon with young Anakin...which throws a slight wrench in my theory but still works)

Luke -- Kylo and Rey
Leia -- Rey

So, my theory is, if you didn't know the Jedi when they were alive, you won't be able to see them when they are gone.

I can be on board with that.

This script sounds a bit better than TROS, but it still doesn't feel taut. This and TROS and are still setting things up in the final movie because there's no narrative thrust across the trilogy. That's sloppy.

PatAg said:

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The whole notion of Tor Valun bothers me, and I don't get why it's exciting to others. It makes no sense within the context of what the previous 8 movies taught us about the Sith.

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By far the worst part.

Ultimately, you're right. There was never any saving this trilogy. It just would have been nice to go out on a not-utterly-terrible note.

Anyone who is disappointed with the sequel trilogy (which seems to be most people) should read the Heir to the Empire trilogy from Timothy Zahn.

I read it in high school and again after college and it still held up as a fun, cohesive, Star Wars trilogy. Maybe I'll read it again this year. It was written in the 90's and is set shortly after RotJ, so you have the original Star Wars cast back as your primary protagonists, plus some great new characters and a villain so good they actually lifted him into the Rebels TV show as a primary antagonist.

Folks disappointed in the sequel trilogy might enjoy it.

A ton more details here. Jason's writing is a bit hard to follow, per usual, but his breakdown is for Trevorrow's final draft (at some point in 2017, after Fisher's death), not the apparent first draft Burnett reviewed yesterday (written before Fisher's death). And there are quite a few differences between the two drafts. Jason breaks his summary down into two sections: 1) the major differences between Trevorrow's final draft and TROS, and then 2) an expanded summary of Trevorrow's final draft. Really interesting stuff...

https://makingstarwars.net/2020/01/i-read-colin-trevorrow-and-derek-connollys-final-star-wars-episode-ix-script/

MuckRaker96 said:

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MuckRaker96 said:

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amercer said:

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Agree to disagree, especially if that 7000 year old Sith Lord is more of an embodiment of evil than a human like character that could show up at a senate meeting.

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A really funny movie would be Palpatine sitting through countless senate meetings with a non-stop internal monologue about how he wanted to kill everyone there. Looking at his Blackberry, noticing he's supposed to be training Maul how to construct a double-bladed lightsaber this afternoon, but he's going to have to push it back to 6 p.m. because the Senator from Ryloth is having a baby shower.

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i think i just realized my true calling on the TexAgs Entertainment board is no longer trying to defend the sequel trilogy, but writing this story. see you dudes in a few weeks.

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Make sure Jar Jar is front center and how Palpatine has nearly killed him 25 times.

MuckRaker96 said:

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amercer said:

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Agree to disagree, especially if that 7000 year old Sith Lord is more of an embodiment of evil than a human like character that could show up at a senate meeting.

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A really funny movie would be Palpatine sitting through countless senate meetings with a non-stop internal monologue about how he wanted to kill everyone there. Looking at his Blackberry, noticing he's supposed to be training Maul how to construct a double-bladed lightsaber this afternoon, but he's going to have to push it back to 6 p.m. because the Senator from Ryloth is having a baby shower.

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Aggie_Journalist said:

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Anyone who is disappointed with the sequel trilogy (which seems to be most people) should read the Heir to the Empire trilogy from Timothy Zahn.

I read it in high school and again after college and it still held up as a fun, cohesive, Star Wars trilogy. Maybe I'll read it again this year. It was written in the 90's and is set shortly after RotJ, so you have the original Star Wars cast back as your primary protagonists, plus some great new characters and a villain so good they actually lifted him into the Rebels TV show as a primary antagonist.

Folks disappointed in the sequel trilogy might enjoy it.

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I really wish they would have just taken those books and made a few movies.

Zahn books are great, I've read them probably 20 times apiece and could pick them up tomorrow and do it all again.

That said, I also love the sequel trilogy, especially 7 and 9, and am continually joyous for that beautiful October day in 2012 when the news came in that they were making more Star Wars movies.

All I want to know.... are there horses riding on top of star destroyers?

Interesting on Mortis. I'm about halfway through the Clone Wars episode where this was apparently first introduced.

I just finished the Zahn books about a month ago. They were good but not great. I loved Thrawn and Talon Karrde though. Fantastic characters. Everyone else felt wooden and one dimensional compared to them probably because Zahn was forced to write the movie characters in the confines of what was on the screen.

TCTTS said:

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You're probably right, but it depends on how it was going to be presented. From what I gather, Tor Valum doesn't sound like your run-of-mill, power-hungry Sith Lord, but more like a wellspring of Sith knowledge, likely bound to his home world because of his shape/state. In other words, he could have been some kind of Sith entity outside of the rule of two and all that.

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You guys would gave been comparing this to Guardians of the Galaxy 2 with Ego as the bad guy, ****ting all over them for not being original. (Non-human big bad, stuck in place or on a planet). No winning with some folks.

One of my favorite TexAgs tropes is when someone invents a completely made up scenario/narrative and then follows it with something like, "No winning with some folks."

This is exactly what would be done. You know it would. Through 8 of 9 movies, there was no saving the ST in a lot of minds. There was going to be a level of analysis and inspection not applied to the OT. With all the comparisons to marvel, using a big bad like that would have happened. No doubt in my mind.

I liked TROS, less on second viewing, but enjoyed it. We'll see how I feel in a few months, but the level of vitriol was easily predicted going into it.

This new script is different, but doesn't sound any less clunky or busy. Less fan service, but also less satisfying of an ending for many of the saga's characters. Not to mention, who knows how the final product would have been edited and cut for a final movie (which are some of the primary complaints with TROS). Could have been just as useless to some people.