I found this article on the actual teams (highlighted returning players):

https://www.myaggienation.com/athletics_history/football/year_by_year/article_50963f1c-f6f6-11e2-9da7-001a4bcf887a.html

1917

• M.H. "Ox" Ford at tackle
• Heine Weir at quarterback
• Jack Mahan (Fullback)
• Higginbotham (running back)
• J.D. McMurrey (Tackle)
• Jim Kindrick
• Wilson & McKnight at Guard
• Gouger & Alexander at End
• Anderson (center)
• Griesenbeck
• Elam (2nd qb)
• Gilmore
• McClintock

.https://www.myaggienation.com/athletics_history/football/year_by_year/article_9d4f68d0-f6f4-11e2-b761-001a4bcf887a.html
1919

• Jack Mahan (Fullback)
• Higginbotham (running back)
• E.S. Wilson (Defense)
• Weir (QB) / Elam (QB)
• Wilson (Guard)
• Alexander (End)
• Gouger (End)
• Knickerbocker
• Dwyer

Notables that can be incorporated:

• 1919 QB broke his shoulder, though, and was lost for the year
• Higginbotham scored the team's lone touchdown in a 7-0 victory over Texas

All of the old yearbooks are online. I'll have to look through them later for information.
1918 Long Horn Football Section
1919 Long Horn Football Section
1920 Long Horn Football Section

It sounds to me the main story theme you're going for is the innocence of finishing the 1917 season so well and almost easy and contrasting the dichotomy of the hardships of war.

1st Act is as you said. Then the second act builds the story of how you can go undefeated and unscored upon in football, but in War/Life you are destined to lose some battles. Its shown in the fact of them losing some of their buddies in the war, getting shot down, etc. but eventually prevailing in their mission in honor of their fallen friends. Then in Act 3 theyre getting ready for the first game with serious almost determined looks on their faces (some might even be holding a token of their fallen friend while listening to Coach Bible talk) and then it ends with them running out of the tunnel like you said.

Or it could be pretty cool to see it end as a flashback to one of the guys in the trenches talking to Pinky as he writes the War Hymn and him asking Pinky about it. Ending with Wilson revealing the name of the song.

caleblyn said:

---

Love the idea. If it never comes to be, I highly enjoyed the read. However, I think you have something mainly because...I enjoyed the read.

You need a base...an author! Need someone to write the book or the screenplay. I know this is what you are asking, but these people are special with wonderful gifts.

I would think you would need to start researching the newspapers from old. Might have to go to micro fish.

Wish I could help but this is not my gift.

---

Great to hear. And yeah, doing a book first would definitely be the way to go. But it would require either paying someone to write the book, or finding someone who could pitch it to publishers, both of which would be extremely tough.

Quad Dog said:

---

That's quite a story to tell and a lot to bite off. I tend to oversimplify, and it can be a strenght and weakness of mine.
If you wanted to tell it chronologically it would be best as a mini-series.
But that might be too much for a feature length movie. What if for a movie the 1919 season is your backdrop? The 1917 isn't really seen, but talked about and the record shown a few times as if it were a myth and another lifetime ago. The struggles of the 1919 season to live up to the 1917 season could be told through flashbacks to the war. Give some of your players what we would call PTSD now, but would have been "shell shock" back then. They struggle to find purpose in football and life after the war. But use their experiences in WW1(told through flashback) to help them find meaning and reason to push through. Your last Braveheart moment would be in the Texas game at the end of the year. If you've got 3 hours to tell this story that's 5 mins for 1917, 5 mins for your Braveheart ending, and about 30 minutes each for 5 stories (15 minutes of 1919 struggle, 15 minutes of WW1 flashback)


Logistically for this story you would want to find some contact to get WW1 service records for every player. When and where did they serve? What battles? Who didn't make it home? From there you could research those battle and (maybe fictitiously) insert your protagonists into those battles.
Does anyone have that kind of contact?

---

Not a bad idea at all. I need to wrap my head around it, but it's definitely an option to consider.

HerschelwoodHardhead said:

---

Like the idea.

My only (albeit uneducated) opinion about the story structure is I agree Dana X. Bible has to be the center of the movie. May need a brief introduction into his upbringing or something at the beginning of Act 1 to show who he is and why he is such a man of valor (or whatever character trait you want to define him).

I'm imagining a similar story arc as what was in the Dennis Quaid movie "The Rookie". Introduce hero coach, have the team building season with winning a championship, coach leaves to go off to majors (or in this case, war), come back a changed man and go back into coaching which was his true calling all along.

Name of the movie: "Bible Studies"....or maybe we can workshop that one a bit.

---

"The Rookie" is a good model. But yeah, it's feeling more and more like this would be from Bible's perspective, and that maybe the research should focus more on him than anything.

TCTTS said:

---

Quad Dog said:

---

Logistically for this story you would want to find some contact to get WW1 service records for every player. When and where did they serve? What battles? Who didn't make it home? From there you could research those battle and (maybe fictitiously) insert your protagonists into those battles.
Does anyone have that kind of contact?

---

Not a bad idea at all. I need to wrap my head around it, but it's definitely an option to consider.

---

As far as I can tell from the records of the team vs this site, none of the team members fell during the war

https://www.aggienetwork.com/news/148592/world-war-i-gold-star-aggies/

bobinator said:

---

To me for this to work, you are going to have to focus a little bit on the 1917 season, because the hook here is really how motivation, leadership, etc changes.

I can envision something like:

(Note, I have no idea of the historical accuracy of this, just basically talking in general plot notes)

Act I: 1917

We drop into the celebration after beating Texas in 1917. This is where we meet our main characters, celebrating victory over their rivals. Then we see a practice before the final game of the season. The coaches and players are doing your typical 'this is the most important game of our lives' sports-as-war type stuff. "Finish them off," etc etc.

Act 2: War

Our characters are all doing important stuff, but through various ways they're showing that they miss the simplicity they had before. Sports aren't anything like war, because sports are simple. You know who the opponent is, and you know what they're trying to do and why they're trying to do it. You're also face to face with your opponent. Sports have a humanity to it that the first truly modern war has stripped away from the battlefield. I think to drive this point home we never really see the enemy. Bombs/gunfire/etc are just coming from a vague 'beyond.'

I think this sets up a moment of why he'd write the war hymn. He's not only remembering a time where life was better, but where it was simpler.

I think to make this work you're going to have to have someone in his outfit that's a Longhorn fan and they give each other crap all the time but also help each other out of some sticky situations. They're rivals, but also friends. And he writes the 'War Hymn' because he thinks it will be funny to the other guy. He doesn't really intend for it to become a school song later on. But it sort of hearkens back to that desire for the simplicity before.

Act 3: 1919

They come back, and now the focus of practice isn't on 'destroying the opponent,' it's more about improving yourself. The focus is no longer on the external, but the internal. For those that went to war, they don't worry about the opponent as much, even though the fans do. It's a different approach, but it's just as effective and they're perfect again.

- I think you have some modern relevance here because how often these days do we see people define themselves by the external? Everyone always wants to shoutout the haters, or talk about how nobody believed in them, etc. So much of what people talk about as motivation is external, but the most effective motivation is always internal.

Anyway, those are some random thoughts.

---

Good stuff, and matches my basic structure in the OP.

Quad Dog said:

---

Was Pinky Wilson on the football roster?
If not, is this a Wilson movie or a football movie? Because if he's not on the team then he's in two scenes in the movie. One scene at A&M watching a game and one writing the War Hymn. If he's not on the team would he and Bible have ever interacted?

If he was on the team, then he's your protagonist and this is a Wilson movie.

---

The Wilson thing wouldn't be set it stone. If it somehow works out, great. If not, I'll find a different title.

FightinTexasAg15 said:

---

I found this article on the actual teams (highlighted returning players):

https://www.myaggienation.com/athletics_history/football/year_by_year/article_50963f1c-f6f6-11e2-9da7-001a4bcf887a.html

1917

• M.H. "Ox" Ford at tackle
• Heine Weir at quarterback
• Jack Mahan (Fullback)
• Higginbotham (running back)
• J.D. McMurrey (Tackle)
• Jim Kindrick
• Wilson & McKnight at Guard
• Gouger & Alexander at End
• Anderson (center)
• Griesenbeck
• Elam (2nd qb)
• Gilmore
• McClintock

.https://www.myaggienation.com/athletics_history/football/year_by_year/article_9d4f68d0-f6f4-11e2-b761-001a4bcf887a.html
1919

• Jack Mahan (Fullback)
• Higginbotham (running back)
• E.S. Wilson (Defense)
• Weir (QB) / Elam (QB)
• Wilson (Guard)
• Alexander (End)
• Gouger (End)
• Knickerbocker
• Dwyer

Notables that can be incorporated:

• 1919 QB broke his shoulder, though, and was lost for the year
• Higginbotham scored the team's lone touchdown in a 7-0 victory over Texas

---

Awesome finds, and good to have confirmation on these names. Higginbotham seems to be emerging as THE guy, player-wise.

Legal Custodian said:

---

It sounds to me the main story theme you're going for is the innocence of finishing the 1917 season so well and almost easy and contrasting the dichotomy of the hardships of war.

1st Act is as you said. Then the second act builds the story of how you can go undefeated and unscored upon in football, but in War/Life you are destined to lose some battles. Its shown in the fact of them losing some of their buddies in the war, getting shot down, etc. but eventually prevailing in their mission in honor of their fallen friends. Then in Act 3 theyre getting ready for the first game with serious almost determined looks on their faces (some might even be holding a token of their fallen friend while listening to Coach Bible talk) and then it ends with them running out of the tunnel like you said.

Or it could be pretty cool to see it end as a flashback to one of the guys in the trenches talking to Pinky as he writes the War Hymn and him asking Pinky about it. Ending with Wilson revealing the name of the song.

---

Very well put, and I like the flashback idea at the end. Could be a creative way to involve him.

I'm having a hard time figuring out how the football ties in and makes the war more compelling, and vice versa. But then that's why there are people in Hollywood who do this for a living. There have been bigger stretches made into good movies I'm sure.

That's why I'd originally suggested it being about two guys (bible and a close friend). 1917 (football) establishes the relationship.

'03ag said:

---

I'm having a hard time figuring out how the football ties in and makes the war more compelling, and vice versa. But then that's why there are people in Hollywood who do this for a living. There have been bigger stretches made into good movies I'm sure.

---

You might be right. Another reason I wanted to post all this is to stress test the concept. It simply might too much of a challenge to try and connect all the dots.

And yeah, for sure. I probably should have reiterated that character no doubt comes first in all of this. At its heart, it need to be a personal story/journey. It's not a movie about A&M. It's not a movie about football. It's not a movie about the war. All of that would just be the backdrop for whatever the main character's journey/arc is.

GREAT find. That's exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. I think you could still actually tell this from Bible's point of view, but Harrison is maybe the second lead, and after the war, he has PTSD (or something along those lines), and part of the story is about Bible trying to help him in whatever way he can, and through football is one of the ways he does that. Let me think on this, but good stuff for sure.

TCTTS said:

---

'03ag said:

---

I'm having a hard time figuring out how the football ties in and makes the war more compelling, and vice versa. But then that's why there are people in Hollywood who do this for a living. There have been bigger stretches made into good movies I'm sure.

---

You might be right. Another reason I wanted to post all this is to stress test the concept. It simply might too much of a challenge to try and connect all the dots.

---

I have no doubt it can be done and several here have made good suggestions already.

I think the challenge will be to do it in a way that's compelling outside the Aggie family. Making it too esoteric and overly Aggie is going to put it at risk.

Another angle is Pre-WW1 American isolationism. The "we couldn't be touched" mentality before the Germans sunk the Lusitania is kind of perfectly articulated by American youths "fighting" in college football games compared to those in Europe fighting the most horrific and devastating warfare the world had ever seen. The US was 50 years or so removed from the Civil War and on the brink of becoming the world's economic power. We were interested in doing us, so to speak. It wasn't until the war touched american lives through the sinking of the Lusitania that Wilson and America changed directions.

So maybe the conflict is the shattering of a collective national innocence, and the struggle to regain that innocence upon returning home. Maybe shown through the eyes of Chicken Harrison who very personally felt the changing of the World following 1918 as a larger call to duty.

Yeah, for sure. And trust me, I'm the last guy who would go all "Aggie" with this. It HAS to have mass appeal first and foremost. I almost typed up a big disclaimer about how this can't be one, big Aggie circle-jerk of a movie, but I didn't want to offend anyone.

Kinda funny that Tolkien got a lot of his material from his experience in WW1. Some might think it's a movie about him and WW1.

MW03 said:

---

Another angle is Pre-WW1 American isolationism. The "we couldn't be touched" mentality before the Germans sunk the Lusitania is kind of perfectly articulated by American youths "fighting" in college football games compared to those in Europe fighting the most horrific and devastating warfare the world had ever seen. The US was 50 years or so removed from the Civil War and on the brink of becoming the world's economic power. We were interested in doing us, so to speak. It wasn't until the war touched american lives through the sinking of the Lusitania that Wilson and America changed directions.

So maybe the conflict is the shattering of a collective national innocence, and the struggle to regain that innocence upon returning home. Maybe shown through the eyes of Chicken Harrison who very personally felt the changing of the World following 1918 as a larger call to duty.

---

Love that. I think this is basically what I was trying to get at with the thematic "perfection" stuff I was touching on in the OP, but this much better said. Football, via the prism of this movie, is merely the way in which we display America's innocence pre-war. That's a great, thematic reason for including football and war in the same movie.

TCTTS said:

---

"They Shall Not Pass" is actually an awesome title, too. Or would everyone and their dog go straight to Lord of the Rings?

---

I love it. Then again, I'm not a LOTR person.

TCTTS said:

---

And yeah, for sure. I probably should have reiterated that character no doubt comes first in all of this. At its heart, it need to be a personal story/journey. It's not a movie about A&M. It's not a movie about football. It's not a movie about the war. All of that would just be the backdrop for whatever the main character's journey/arc is.

---

Oh yeah..no doubt.

I was just suggesting that in an effort to 'connect the dots' between the backdrops.

What about tone? This going to be a serious story?

What about a funny/odd tone..like O Brother Where are Thou, or Leatherheads? War might be an odd subject to have lighthearted, but since he was only involved a year, I wonder if it could be a more lighthearted adventure?

Quote:

---

"They Shall Not Pass" is actually an awesome title, too. Or would everyone and their dog go straight to Lord of the Rings?

---

Everyone is going to go straight to LOTR. not saying that means it's a bad title....but they will.

TCTTS said:

---

"They Shall Not Pass" is actually an awesome title, too. Or would everyone and their dog go straight to Lord of the Rings?

---

"On ne passe pas" was the French motto at Verdun at 1916. That was a ****ing meat grinder

Not really a movie guy, so just some thoughts.

1. Excellent backdrop and you could take this a number of different places. Like the coach getting fired in the middle of 1916, losing to Texas and 1917 being played under the threat of war and going undefeated. Surely people from the 1916 team were in the Army by 1917, and with war declared in April, the timeline works. Pressure builds on Bible from multiple sides.

2. It's either a documentary or "based on a true story". While the important things to us Aggies would be Bible and the War Hymn, if that doesn't fit in the story, they have to be cut. But there will be a lot of upset Aggies if it isn't a documentary. But half of those would be upset no matter what the outcome is, so make what you want.

3. Higginbotham sounds like an excellent point of view. But he needs to serve in France in 1918. Again, "based on a true story" might be able to add that detail if real life doesn't have it.

4. If you are going to span the 1917 team to the 1919 team, you need a gold star on the 1917 team, who ideally would have been playing in either 1918 or 1919. Is Anderson the center from 1917 Farris Anderson '18, killed in action October 1918 in France? If this is a fictional story, you need someone to remind the audience the seriousness of the situation. Anderson blocks for Higginbotham in 17, makes some aside comment about sacrificing for the team while Higginbotham gets the glory. Anderson doesn't come home. Maybe keep the details accurate to Farris Anderson.

5. Bible would be great for the fighter pilot side, but I can't imagine it's cheap to film vintage flight sequences. With the infantry in the trenches, that hole in the ground is a pretty cheap set.

Quote:

---

Either way, that's the film's title...

"THE WAR HYMN"

---

Chills.

TCTTS said:

---

GREAT find. That's exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. I think you could still actually tell this from Bible's point of view, but Harrison is maybe the second lead, and after the war, he has PTSD (or something along those lines), and part of the story is about Bible trying to help him in whatever way he can, and through football is one of the ways he does that. Let me think on this, but good stuff for sure.

---

The PTSD scenario checks a huge box for hard men coming back from that war "shell shocked" and trying to wrap their heads around the frivolity of daily mundane life, even if that daily mundane life is competing at the highest collegiate level for championships (the 1919 team was ultimately awarded a retroactive national title by the National Championship Foundation).

In three acts, that process would be:

Act 1 - the thrill of playing undefeated football in 1917
Act 2 - Conflict, literally depicted by fighting the WW1 in 1918, and then personal conflict in coming to grips with the frivolity of life at home
Act 3 - Resolution of the personal conflict by finding meaning again in daily life through the lens of service, and articulated by attaining perfection of the football

MW03 said:

---

TCTTS said:

---

GREAT find. That's exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. I think you could still actually tell this from Bible's point of view, but Harrison is maybe the second lead, and after the war, he has PTSD (or something along those lines), and part of the story is about Bible trying to help him in whatever way he can, and through football is one of the ways he does that. Let me think on this, but good stuff for sure.

---

The PTSD scenario checks a huge box for hard men coming back from that war "shell shocked" and trying to wrap their heads around the frivolity of daily mundane life, even if that daily mundane life is competing at the highest collegiate level for championships (the 1919 team was ultimately awarded a retroactive national title by the National Championship Foundation).

In three acts, that process would be:

Act 1 - the thrill of playing undefeated football in 1917
Act 2 - Conflict, literally depicted by fighting the WW1 in 1918, and then personal conflict in coming to grips with the frivolity of life at home
Act 3 - Resolution of the personal conflict by finding meaning again in daily life through the lens of service, and articulated by attaining perfection of the football

---

In other words, The Hurt Locker, only with grocery shopping replaced by two-a-days and instead of returning to war, they return to their lives with Bible.