I'm confused. You said it confirmed the KoR were the students, but you just said he slaughtered them.

Which is it?

Quote:

---

slaughtered the students who didn't follow him to the Dark Side.

---

I guess it could be inferred that the rest became the KoR, but I wouldn't exactly call it confirmation either.

Yeah it's not a 100% confirmation, but I'd say it's definitely very strong evidence.

I would really need a concrete explanation as to why none of them use lightsabers though. Especially if they're similar in age to Kylo, and we know he was at least proficient with a lightsaber by that time.

It would be interesting if he saw them as potential threats and forbade them to wield lightsabers.

bobinator said:

---

Also I think the last movie made it pretty clear that Rey is going to flirt with using the "dark side" of the force, so I think we can definitely expect that in this movie. After all that's kind of a key part of the journey of every Jedi we've followed on screen is them being tempted by the dark side and either falling to it or not.

Put dark side in quotes because I think maybe there's a chance that Rey is going to bridge the gap of what has previously been thought of as light and dark with the force.

Rey is going to be tested the same way. That's another one of the few things about this movie I'm almost certain about.

---

Agreed. Luke did in ROTJ and wore black. Anakin did in ROTS and wore black. I would be very surprised if Rey doesn't flirt with it in TROS and wear black (at some point in the film).

Luke Skywalker: I went to confront him, and he turned on me. He must've thought I was dead. When I came to, the temple was burning. He had vanished with a handful of my students, and slaughtered the rest. Leia blamed Snoke, but... it was me. I failed. Because I was Luke Skywalker. Jedi Master. A legend.

The shot of Kylo & Rey fighting. If that really does occur (I'm not sure how much of this is a misdirect), do you think that is at the beginning of the film? I'm starting to think the movie will jump right to them at the Death Star remnants.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

---

I would really need a concrete explanation as to why none of them use lightsabers though. Especially if they're similar in age to Kylo, and we know he was at least proficient with a lightsaber by that time.

It would be interesting if he saw them as potential threats and forbade them to wield lightsabers.

---

Does JJ really do concrete answers?

Also:

Popular comic book writer Charles Soule confirmed on Twitter that he will be writing a series titled Star Wars: The Rise of Kylo Ren. The series promises to explore the origins of the Knights of Ren, why they joined Kylo's cause after Luke nearly killed him in his sleep (thanks, The Last Jedi), and what they're up to now. It


[url=https://twitter.com/CharlesSoule][/url]
[url=https://twitter.com/CharlesSoule][/url]Charles Soule

@CharlesSoule
[url=https://twitter.com/CharlesSoule][/url]
[url=https://twitter.com/CharlesSoule/status/1152381134694580224][/url]
[url=https://twitter.com/CharlesSoule/status/1152381134694580224][/url]

As just announced, I am writing THE RISE OF KYLO REN - a limited series comic launching in December, just before Episode IX.

You know the one story everyone's dying to see, about Kylo and the Knights of Ren? That's this.

You're not ready (hell, I barely am.)

CJS4715 said:

---

The shot of Kylo & Rey fighting. If that really does occur (I'm not sure how much of this is a misdirect), do you think that is at the beginning of the film? I'm starting to think the movie will jump right to them at the Death Star remnants.

---

I'll guess end of 1st act

It's a problem with the movie itself if multiple other forms of media have to fill in all the blanks

There could be a few reasons.

- They might all suck at it and Kylo doesn't want to teach them either because they're a threat or because they're not all together very often, so they use other weapons
- The do use lightsabers also, we just haven't seen it yet
- They're hiding the fact that they have Jedi teaching, on a handful of people would know that the Knights of Ren used to be Jedi trainees right?
- Lightsabers are rare maybe?

redline248 said:

---

It's a problem with the movie itself if multiple other forms of media have to fill in all the blanks

---

Yeah man, we're talking about the prequels here. I don't think anyone is defending those as bastions of genius.

But also, I thought it was really obvious in that scene that Palpatine was saying he at least helped create Anakin. Until this thread I honestly thought that was like an accepted piece of Star Wars history but I don't do much Star Wars talk other than this thread and with a couple of buddies of mine.

I was talking about the post above about the Rise of Kylo Ren comics.

Agreed, I think they're both looking for something on the death star fairly early in the movie.

Most of the time, I don't think "other media" is necessary, but it's available for those who want to nerd out and really deep dive on a movie / subject matter. Most people don't need the level of explanation that hardcore fans do, and you have the balance that out when making a movie.

Oh, that one doesn't bother me much because the Knights of Ren haven't been important to the movies yet so who really cares who they are?

There's all kinds of unanswered questions about various threads in the movies that are potential great comic material.

redline248 said:

---

It's a problem with the movie itself if multiple other forms of media have to fill in all the blanks

---

I would assume that if they are telling the KoR story in a comic book, than their actual identities aren't that important in the movie.

With so many things unanswered and so little information it feels like we're all falling into varying degrees of the "Everything Must Mean Something" trap.

MuckRaker96 said:

---

redline248 said:

---

It's a problem with the movie itself if multiple other forms of media have to fill in all the blanks

---

I would assume that if they are telling the KoR story in a comic book, than their actual identities aren't that important in the movie.

With so many things unanswered and so little information it feels like we're all falling into varying degrees of the "Everything Must Mean Something" trap.

---

The way things have gone with this trilogy, I think the bolded part is more likely than the comics indicating anything important. I always go back to "the overwhelming majority of viewers will have no idea about the comics" and likely have forgotten all about the Knights of Ren.

My wife and I were actually talking about this the other day. There are really two kinds of "theories."

In one type, it fills in some backstory, but doesn't actually affect anything that's about to happen. In this case, who the Knights of Ren are doesn't really matter for the movie. It's just a mystery they're filling in with a comic. Another example of this is the "Rey is a clone from Luke's hand" theory. Even if that's true, does it affect anything that's going to happen in this movie?

The other type or what I would call plot mechanics theories. Theories about someone or something that will actually change the course of events in the next movie.

I try not to dive too deep into the first type usually, but I live for the second.

So, I asked some friends of mine (who all love Star Wars, but are no where near the nerd I am) the following:

How was Anakin conceived? Who are the Knights of Ren?

First friend: Anakin was a miracle. Knights of Ren fight to protect the Stempy

2nd friend: Do we know about Anakin from Phantom Menace? Where is the Knights of Ren mentioned?

1st friend: I remember his mom describing it to Qui-Gon was basically an immaculate conception. I've heard of the Knights of Ren, probably from redline talking about them playing Knights of the Old Republic or something. Beyond that, I have no f-cking clue.

MuckRaker96 said:

---

More screenshots from Monday.

---

I wonder why she's holding that stick like a spear while she throws the saber... training for having two sabers or training for a fight against the ewoks?

Quote:

---

Worst configuration for a game of Battleship ever.

---

Remember the scene in The Last Starfighter when all the enemy ships were lined up in a row and the last starfighter came in from above and just blasted them like shooting fish in a barrel?

Flashdiaz said:

---

MuckRaker96 said:

---

More screenshots from Monday.

---

I wonder why she's holding that stick like a spear while she throws the saber... training for having two sabers or training for a fight against the ewoks?

---

She's holding it with both hands, like she would her staff, before catching the saber

Looks like she was fighting with the stick because she dropped her saber and then is able to do the ole force pull trick to retrieve it.

BrownCoat said:

---

Looks like she was fighting with the stick because she dropped her saber and then is able to do the ole force pull trick to retrieve it.

---

Except it's ignited....

agracer said:

---

BrownCoat said:

---

Looks like she was fighting with the stick because she dropped her saber and then is able to do the ole force pull trick to retrieve it.

---

Except it's ignited....

---

She throws the saber at one point, and it slices a tree in half, then she pulls it back to herself, I think.

While we are analyzing the video footage...

When TLJ ended, Anakin's old lightsaber was broken in 2 pieces. First shot with Rey, there it is in one piece on her hip. This is going to be one of those things were she rebuilds it between movies, I assume.

TCTTS said:

---

I'll take that bet, but I think we need to define "clone" first.

My guess is that she was somehow "genetically created," with the Force at play, via Palpatine.

Now, whether or not Palpatine used some of Luke's or Anakin's DNA, I don't know, and am not prepared to say. I don't know if Rey is a clone of someone else before her. Is it even possible to "clone" a male into a female? I'm not even sure how all that works, so I'm simply going with "genetically created via the Force/Palpatine." And there may or may not be other "Reys" in this scenario.

Overall, not only has it been hinted that Palpatine had a hand in potentially creating Anakin, Palpatine's entire master plan involved clones. The war itself - the primary galactic struggle of the Skywalker Saga - is named after and fought by clones. In that sense, I feel like the clone thread has to come back around in some way, shape, or form. Clones (and potentially genetic manipulation via the Force) are Palpatine's thing.

Further, the whole clone thing could be the perfect (but admittedly somewhat heavy handed) metaphor thematically.

Rey's last great fight... is with herself.

Only when she literally and figuratively conquers herself can she truly become who she was meant to be.

---

Went to bed at 4 AM, did not expect to wake up to 50+ posts since then. Holy crap.

To address Muck and bobinator... I actually think we're all on the same page. At least on part of this. I should have phrased the above differently, as I wasn't saying, "Let's define clone" and then answering that call definitively in the rest of my post. I was literally asking for a clearer definition/distinction, since I and many others seem to be using it to mean a few different things.

But re: Anakin, I don't think Palpatine actually used a syringe and test tubes and cloning tech and what not to create Anakin. "Genetically created" wasn't the right term. I believe that and agree that Palpatine created Anakin "by manipulating the Force to create life." My only point was that Palpatine was responsible for Anakin's existence in some way, shape, or form. Is that what you guys are saying?

As for Rey, though, I think Palpatine took it a step further. I *do* think he used a bit of cloning tech somehow, or rather some kind of genetic altering tech - in addition to whatever he did with Anakin - to try and create something "better" by more precise methods. IMO, Rey's creation is an evolutionary step further somehow on Palpatine's part.

I just keep going back to Rey and Anakin both growing up on desert planets. "The Art of The Force Awakens" had Rey growing up on another planet for the longest time. It was basically an industrial ship wreck planet where a lot of downed Empire ships were being taken apart for scraps. Like some massive industrial harbor. Then Abrams came along and eventually changed the planet to the desert planet Jakku, but kept a slight piece of the downed-Empire-ships vibe. In doing so, he then created this whole history of and mythology about Jakku.

He did that for a reason.

He purposely put Rey on a desert planet, same as Anakin (and Luke, of course). And I think that has something to do with Palpatine "creating" both of them. For whatever reason, a desert planet is key to his process, a process he evolved from Tatooine to Jakku. There are just too many hints pointing that direction.

Overall, though, I just meant that Palpatine has a thing for creating/manipulating life. Whether that be by cloning with his army, Force manipulation via Anakin, and whatever he may or may not have done to create Rey.