Should just call the Oscar for best Score the John Williams Trophy
*** STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER ***
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Last: 4 yr ago by SpreadsheetAg
It's likely been mentioned before, but most of you would probably love the podcast Blockbuster. It's about Lucas, Spielberg, and Williams and how they became successful. Very well done.
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I mean he has won a bunch of Oscars so I doubt they give him one unless it's a really good score. He doesn't have this over-do or not rewarded enough narrative around his career. If anything, people get annoyed that he gets nominated for basically anything he scores.
People being annoyed is on them.
He is nominated most every year, but he does not always win. He has actually won only 5 (Fiddler on the Roof, Jaws, Star Wars, ET, and Schindler's List). He was last nominated for The Last Jedi (the only thing good about that movie was his score).
He is nominated most every year, but he does not always win. He has actually won only 5 (Fiddler on the Roof, Jaws, Star Wars, ET, and Schindler's List). He was last nominated for The Last Jedi (the only thing good about that movie was his score).
It's crazy that he didn't win for:
Empire Strikes Back
Raiders of the Lost Ark
The Phantom Menace
And some personal favorites:
Superman
Home Alone
Revenge of the Sith
Catch Me If You Can
The fact that he hasn't won one since 1993 is kinda nuts.
And I would have listed Jurassic Park in the top list if it wasn't for the fact that he lost to himself. (For Schindler's List.)
Empire Strikes Back
Raiders of the Lost Ark
The Phantom Menace
And some personal favorites:
Superman
Home Alone
Revenge of the Sith
Catch Me If You Can
The fact that he hasn't won one since 1993 is kinda nuts.
And I would have listed Jurassic Park in the top list if it wasn't for the fact that he lost to himself. (For Schindler's List.)
It was years before I watched either Fame or Chariots of Fire (both films won best score over TESB and ROTLA). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Fame won because of the various songs rather than what we'd call a score these days. CoF had a really pleasing theme but that was it.
Yet one can go to football games 39 years after the fact and still hear marching bands perform the Imperial March. Empire and Raiders are iconic scores.
Last night I watched the original Amityville Horror with my teen, who really enjoys crap like that. That movie had Margot Kidder, who I told my daughter had been Lois Lane in the original Superman movies. To me, Margot Kidder will always be Lois Lane. Just like John Williams' music for that first movie will always be the Superman music - and I say that with no disrespect to the Zimmer score for Man of Steel, which was quite good in its own right but was just not "hummable".
Yet one can go to football games 39 years after the fact and still hear marching bands perform the Imperial March. Empire and Raiders are iconic scores.
Last night I watched the original Amityville Horror with my teen, who really enjoys crap like that. That movie had Margot Kidder, who I told my daughter had been Lois Lane in the original Superman movies. To me, Margot Kidder will always be Lois Lane. Just like John Williams' music for that first movie will always be the Superman music - and I say that with no disrespect to the Zimmer score for Man of Steel, which was quite good in its own right but was just not "hummable".
...and to Spilner's last point, I have no idea how the Schindler's List score sounds. Jurassic Park is also iconic
redline248 said:
...and to Spilner's last point, I have no idea how the Schindler's List score sounds. Jurassic Park is also iconic
You'll know it when you hear it.
I propose that Home Alone wouldn't be an iconic movie without its score by John Williams.
Is this now a John Williams thread?
If so, you cretans forgot about Earthquake:
If so, you cretans forgot about Earthquake:
Since John Williams has been so vitally important to Star Wars, I believe this conversation remains pertinent to TROS.
Reminder that the D23 panel is next weekend (just realized it myself in the other thread)...
Saturday, August 24 - 10:00 AM PT // STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER
- Because this presentation is also part of a bigger Disney movie panel, my guess is that they keep it relatively short and sweet (cast appearances, yes, but half an hour max, if that).
- Again, don't expect a new trailer (that'll be in October). Rather, we'll almost assuredly get the standard behind-the-scenes featurette that they've done for the last two saga movies, which are always pretty great in and of themselves...
Saturday, August 24 - 10:00 AM PT // STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER
- Because this presentation is also part of a bigger Disney movie panel, my guess is that they keep it relatively short and sweet (cast appearances, yes, but half an hour max, if that).
- Again, don't expect a new trailer (that'll be in October). Rather, we'll almost assuredly get the standard behind-the-scenes featurette that they've done for the last two saga movies, which are always pretty great in and of themselves...
Knowing that Palpatine is officially back, there's some far-fetched speculation going around that The First Order has actually been a front/distraction on the part of Palpatine while his true/more threatening forces have been amassing, and while he has been "regenerating" by whatever means, in the outer reaches of the galaxy.
I bring this up because I know a lot of people here, myself included, have always found The First Order lacking. They're like the little brother version of the Empire and somewhat incompetent, slapstick, buffoonish, etc. Granted, I have no idea how Abrams & co could credibly explain this scenario - I assume The First Order would somehow be unaware patsies and just as surprised as everyone else - but IF this turns out to be true, and is somehow relatively reasonably explained - which side do you think you'd fall on?
A) Satisfied that at least an explanation has finally been given for The First Order's somewhat incompetent portrayal.
- or -
B) Cheated in the sense that this feels like a last-minute, retroactive fix.
Part of me thinks it would be cool as hell to see the actual Empire return in such gloriously evil fashion, but I'm sure another part of me would think there's no way the filmmakers had this planned from the beginning, and it would thus feel cheap as hell. So maybe I fall somewhere in between.
Thoughts?
Ideas as to how this could be reasonably executed/explained?
Or is this just incredibly dumb/implausible all around?
I bring this up because I know a lot of people here, myself included, have always found The First Order lacking. They're like the little brother version of the Empire and somewhat incompetent, slapstick, buffoonish, etc. Granted, I have no idea how Abrams & co could credibly explain this scenario - I assume The First Order would somehow be unaware patsies and just as surprised as everyone else - but IF this turns out to be true, and is somehow relatively reasonably explained - which side do you think you'd fall on?
A) Satisfied that at least an explanation has finally been given for The First Order's somewhat incompetent portrayal.
- or -
B) Cheated in the sense that this feels like a last-minute, retroactive fix.
Part of me thinks it would be cool as hell to see the actual Empire return in such gloriously evil fashion, but I'm sure another part of me would think there's no way the filmmakers had this planned from the beginning, and it would thus feel cheap as hell. So maybe I fall somewhere in between.
Thoughts?
Ideas as to how this could be reasonably executed/explained?
Or is this just incredibly dumb/implausible all around?
Quite frankly, if that happens I hope it ends with no good guys alive and the resurrected Empire in control.
And I hope George Lucas demands Disney return star wars to him for a quarter of the cost.
And I hope George Lucas demands Disney return star wars to him for a quarter of the cost.
Bringing Palpatine back, in the first place, just reeks of crappy fan fiction...but maybe that's just me
Then we can get a movie where the last remaining Jedi are on a journey to discover a hidden cache of midichlorians so that they can spawn a new batch of Jedi.
Put me in the "cheap as hell, we have no ideas and are retroactively trying to make up for our lack of ideas" camp.
to me it reeks of desperationredline248 said:
Bringing Palpatine back, in the first place, just reeks of crappy fan fiction...but maybe that's just me
I try and stay away from saying "if they do this I'll be pissed" because ultimately, if it's well executed, I might like a movie that uses an idea that initially doesn't sound appealing to me (like about 5000 things about ROS we've heard rumored so far), so it would really come down to how JJ executed it.
As far as the last minute retcon thing though, you could argue that would tie in with the Aftermath trilogy's third book which was published in early 2017, so written in 2016.
Now am I saying they knew this was their direction back then? Of course not, the books and movies haven't shown any reason to believe they're coordinating that well. But at the very least they left themselves the open door of this possibility.
As far as the last minute retcon thing though, you could argue that would tie in with the Aftermath trilogy's third book which was published in early 2017, so written in 2016.
Now am I saying they knew this was their direction back then? Of course not, the books and movies haven't shown any reason to believe they're coordinating that well. But at the very least they left themselves the open door of this possibility.
It's not like Lucas had Luke and Leia being twins from the beginning... the story has been adapted as it goes from the ot. Hell, palpatine had monkey eyes in the original ESB.
If done well it could work despite the lack of structure from the beginning.
If done well it could work despite the lack of structure from the beginning.
Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me but I also still don't think Palpatine is actually like back back. If that is actually confirmed then I'll just be all in on this movie being completely insane.
I've been workshopping a theory that Luke's actions at the end of TLJ is what actually draws/Strengthens/awakens Palpatine's "spirit" or whatever to a place where it can communicate with Kylo or something. There was that whole "the more powerful the dark, the more powerful the light" thing going so maybe the reverse is true.
I dunno though, seems like there are a billion rumors about this movie. They're either trying to obfuscate the truth or this thing is gonna be nuts.
I've been workshopping a theory that Luke's actions at the end of TLJ is what actually draws/Strengthens/awakens Palpatine's "spirit" or whatever to a place where it can communicate with Kylo or something. There was that whole "the more powerful the dark, the more powerful the light" thing going so maybe the reverse is true.
I dunno though, seems like there are a billion rumors about this movie. They're either trying to obfuscate the truth or this thing is gonna be nuts.
All we know is that Ian McDiarmid is in the movie. It's not like we've seen the opening crawl and it says "Senator Palpatine is alive yo!"
Mark Hamill is also in the movie, that doesn't mean Luke Skywalker is going to be strolling around town shaking hands and kissing babies.
The spoiler mill on various websites has suggested the manner of McDiarmid's involvement. That's good enough for me right now.
Mark Hamill is also in the movie, that doesn't mean Luke Skywalker is going to be strolling around town shaking hands and kissing babies.
The spoiler mill on various websites has suggested the manner of McDiarmid's involvement. That's good enough for me right now.
If they bring Palpatine back in a high quality manner, I'm all in and would enjoy it. However, if he ends up in a truly pivotal role, I do think it would also highlight how much they botched the first 2/3's of the trilogy.
I think I've got it
I'm sitting in my truck waiting on the wife, bored. Just watched the ROS trailer again.
"No one is ever really gone".
Then Palpatine's laughter.
They're going to end this where it started. Luke's coming back. He'll be pivotal in ending Palpatine once and for all. Full circle. The Rise of Skywalker is Luke rising from an assumed passing. These SOB's planned this all along and this trilogy actually is the ultimate salute to our fanboy generation of Star Wars nerds.
Luke's unceremonious ending was the bait we took for him to rise again as the hero of and ending of the saga.
I'm sitting in my truck waiting on the wife, bored. Just watched the ROS trailer again.
"No one is ever really gone".
Then Palpatine's laughter.
They're going to end this where it started. Luke's coming back. He'll be pivotal in ending Palpatine once and for all. Full circle. The Rise of Skywalker is Luke rising from an assumed passing. These SOB's planned this all along and this trilogy actually is the ultimate salute to our fanboy generation of Star Wars nerds.
Luke's unceremonious ending was the bait we took for him to rise again as the hero of and ending of the saga.
What if Hamill has known this all along and his complaining has been trollling to throw everyone off?
And all the talk about ending this on a familiar planet is in fact Tatooine?
Again, ending it where it all started.
Again, ending it where it all started.
And the Jedi Council was wrong. It was not Anakin that was the chosen one to defeat the Sith and bring balance to the Force. It was Luke. And this is the final showdown. The Last Jedi against the last Sith?
Personally I trust Abrams to make a movie that I'll at least enjoy, and will look like a star wars movie should.
Whether he can recover from what tlj did and make the trilogy excellent, we'll see
Whether he can recover from what tlj did and make the trilogy excellent, we'll see
This is so good in my mind; it will never happen. They'll build it up this direction for 30 minutes and then ghost-Luke will say; "what? Did you expect me to just un-die?" (Expectations subverted!)
I don't know. JJ is kind of about getting to the shot he (and the fans) love, plot be damned.
Movie starts with Yoda saying "Wake you will, unfinished your work is" and Luke waking up in the Jedi temple. Then he wrecks shop super Jedi style for a couple of hours.
Movie starts with Yoda saying "Wake you will, unfinished your work is" and Luke waking up in the Jedi temple. Then he wrecks shop super Jedi style for a couple of hours.
I've been as cynical as anyone about this trilogy as of late. Guilty.Episode IV said:
This is so good in my mind; it will never happen. They'll build it up this direction for 30 minutes and then ghost-Luke will say; "what? Did you expect me to just un-die?" (Expectations subverted!)
But I'm trying to pick out the clues. None of this is going to make me think that TFA is better than a mediocre film or that TLJ isn't a bad film. But I'm really starting to think they actually had a plan.
TCCTS posted the (leaked, I think?) theory that the First Order was simply the vehicle if not the distraction to throw the galaxy in to war and chaos to hide the eventual return of Palpatine. My biggest eye roll to this was the concept of the Resistance defeating Palpatine when they've been completely decimated in every reasonable measure. How would they succeed? Luke. And yeah, looks like Lando is going to help too.
It just seems like the clues are all there. And it accomplishes several things all at once.
It gives the lifelong SW fans their cookie. Here you go.
It provides a solution to the dilemma of the First Order being so powerful, Palpatine's return, and the Resistance being essentially wiped out. Luke.
It wipes away so much of the disdain for TLJ in that Luke does get a truly meaningful close to his arc.
Mostly, it ends the trilogy where it started. A young man on a backwater planet dreaming of adventure and meaning in life. This closes that arc.
I'll see you around kid.
No one is ever really gone.
amercer said:
I don't know. JJ is kind of about getting to the shot he (and the fans) love, plot be damned.
Have to admit - this whole scene was pretty sweet the first go round. I don't doubt JJ's ability to put a smile on my face.
I talked about this like 70 pages or so now, but one thing The Last Jedi gave us was a movie canon (which I consider different from like, comic canon or TV show canon) example of a force ghost affecting the real world.
Yoda called down a lightning strike on the tree.
By doing that, they kind of cleared the way for these old characters to come back and have an affect on the actual world (not just in the mind of someone) without actually rising from the dead.
I imagine we're going to see Palpatine and Luke (and, more of a left field prediction here, Anakin) involved in that way.
Yoda called down a lightning strike on the tree.
By doing that, they kind of cleared the way for these old characters to come back and have an affect on the actual world (not just in the mind of someone) without actually rising from the dead.
I imagine we're going to see Palpatine and Luke (and, more of a left field prediction here, Anakin) involved in that way.
If palpatine is some sort of ghost in the machine as we have seen h I'll m in the video ed o game would be rather sweet to have ghosts like and anakin and real life kylo team up to end him
One other thought. If the Rise of Skywalker is not meant to mean that Luke returns in some all powerful manner to end the saga (as a force ghost or otherwise) then I'm going back to the second trailer for The Force Awakens.
Included in the trailer is the dialogue from ROTJ of Luke speaking to Leia The force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. But then they moved this statement You have that power too from before the previous statement to the end of it. Why go to the trouble of doctoring the order of some lines from a movie some 32 years previous if it were not meant to foreshadow that Luke actually is Rey's father?
It would explain her Force powers.
It would explain her vision at Maz's castle.
It would explain why the lightsaber is drawn to her and her to it.
It would explain Obi Wan calling out to her in the vision.
It would explain how both Han and Leia had a natural gravitation to her.
Next, from SW.com
This explains why Rey was on Jakku and in such a close vicinity to Lor San Tekka. Luke hid her there after Kylo's revolt. Again, it mirrors Luke being hidden from Vader/Palps. Rey was hidden from Kylo/Snoke. Luke may have even suspected Palps was out there is some way.
It explains why Kylo somehow knows her and also why he would lie to her about her parents. He would never give her the honor of knowing she is the daughter of Luke Skywalker.
It explains Kylo's connection to her even if Snoke was manipulating.
Now the snarky part. This seems like JJ's formula for the new trilogy. Copy the original trilogy. Rey being Luke's daughter seems like the obvious answer, right under our noses, but so obvious it seems unbelievable. But I am sold at this point that The Rise of Skywalker either means that Luke is coming back in a big way or that Rey is Luke's daughter.
Included in the trailer is the dialogue from ROTJ of Luke speaking to Leia The force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. But then they moved this statement You have that power too from before the previous statement to the end of it. Why go to the trouble of doctoring the order of some lines from a movie some 32 years previous if it were not meant to foreshadow that Luke actually is Rey's father?
It would explain her Force powers.
It would explain her vision at Maz's castle.
It would explain why the lightsaber is drawn to her and her to it.
It would explain Obi Wan calling out to her in the vision.
It would explain how both Han and Leia had a natural gravitation to her.
Next, from SW.com
Quote:
Lor San Tekka
A legendary traveler and explorer, Lor San Tekka was a longtime ally of the New Republic and the Resistance. After the Battle of Endor, San Tekka helped Luke Skywalker recover secret Jedi lore that the Empire had tried to erase. He then retired to live simply on Jakku, where he followed the dictates of the once-forbidden Church of the Force. Leia Organa sent Poe Dameron in search of San Tekka, who gave him a portion of a map revealing Luke's planet of exile. San Tekka was then killed by Kylo Ren, who sought the same information.
This explains why Rey was on Jakku and in such a close vicinity to Lor San Tekka. Luke hid her there after Kylo's revolt. Again, it mirrors Luke being hidden from Vader/Palps. Rey was hidden from Kylo/Snoke. Luke may have even suspected Palps was out there is some way.
It explains why Kylo somehow knows her and also why he would lie to her about her parents. He would never give her the honor of knowing she is the daughter of Luke Skywalker.
It explains Kylo's connection to her even if Snoke was manipulating.
Now the snarky part. This seems like JJ's formula for the new trilogy. Copy the original trilogy. Rey being Luke's daughter seems like the obvious answer, right under our noses, but so obvious it seems unbelievable. But I am sold at this point that The Rise of Skywalker either means that Luke is coming back in a big way or that Rey is Luke's daughter.
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