TCTTS said:

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True, but Chekhov's Gun usually makes a quick appearance, and then comes back into play later. It doesn't make an appearance, then the main character uses it in a climactic fight, takes it to its former owner, then uses it to train, and then uses it in another climactic fight, all before being explained where the hell it came from to begin with. But I get what you're saying.

If it is explained in TROS, I guess I'm more curious to know if that was the plan all along, or if Abrams haphazardly introduced it in TFA without a plan, and then figured it out later. My guess is the latter, but we'll see...

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Well that's more of a MacGuffin in TFA. Like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction.

But I always assumed it would be resolved in the trilogy making it a Chekhov's gun.


But I would venture to say it was more of a MacGuffin then in TFA but can be resolved now. JJ did not know he would have either the 2nd or 3rd films so he obviously used it simply as a device to propel the plot forward - any overall plan to resolve it later would have had to be either Kathleen Kennedy's or Disney people in general (but they could have consulted about it with JJ of course).

It would be nice to find out, yes.

I guess I just wish that something as important as Luke's lightsaber was treated with a little more reverence. If it's going to be a MacGuffin, give it just a bit more weight and explanation than finding it in a random treasure chest.

Two questions.

1. How could Lando get the saber on Cloud City when at the time Luke's hand was cut off he was running for his life with Chewie and Leia and/or just boarded the Falcon/takeoff?

2. I thought the saber was destroyed on the First Order flagship when Rey and Kylo were having force tug of war over it? Or did I dream that?

That is my main hang-up. Palpatine has to either be dead, or be a clone, and I sort of like the idea of Snoke having had an integral role in this whole thing, instead of just some rando who gets killed off and never mentioned again. But again, as a puppet for Palpatine.

(Sort of like Ghirahim being a puppet for Ganon/Demise, for all you Zelda nerds.)

It's only super important to us though. Only a handful of people in that universe would know its true importance right?

To me how the lightsaber got to Maz only matters if it also ends up mattering where Luke's hand went, which I still don't think it will.

I hear you, and agree, I just think Snoke would have had more of a reaction to Rey in either movie; some sense of recognition or even a wink that he was responsible for her existence. Instead, there's hardly any.

Urban Ag said:

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Two questions.

1. How could Lando get the saber on Cloud City when at the time Luke's hand was cut off he was running for his life with Chewie and Leia and/or just boarded the Falcon/takeoff?

2. I thought the saber was destroyed on the First Order flagship when Rey and Kylo were having force tug of war over it? Or did I dream that?

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I think we can assume that Rey rebuilt it.

Hm, possibly. But, the whole point of linking Kylo and her in TLJ was to lure her to him, right?

Even if that wasn't the intent by Rian, it could certainly be re-purposed that way by JJ.

Edit: But, I just remembered Snoke was pushing Kylo to kill Rey, so that wouldn't make much sense. Damn it.

Yeah, true. Good point.

bobinator said:

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Urban Ag said:

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Two questions.

1. How could Lando get the saber on Cloud City when at the time Luke's hand was cut off he was running for his life with Chewie and Leia and/or just boarded the Falcon/takeoff?

2. I thought the saber was destroyed on the First Order flagship when Rey and Kylo were having force tug of war over it? Or did I dream that?

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I think we can assume that Rey rebuilt it.

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I hope she didn't have Chewbacca help her. Blade would probably come out the wrong end.

This one goes here, that one goes there. Right?

UNLESS that was part of the plan that Palpatine foresaw. (Kylo killing Snoke.)

Brilliant!

I really don't like the idea of clones being involved. I know it's certainly possible, but I think it's unlikely.

I'm super curious to know if...

A) Palpatine and Snoke were working together, with Palpatine behind the scenes, whether physically or as some kind of Sith Force ghost. Snoke dies, then Palpatine reveals himself.

- or -

B) In Palpatine's absence, Snoke rose to power on his own, having no idea Palpatine was still "around." Then Palpatine either foresaw or had a hand in subconsciously influencing Kylo to kill Snoke, then finally made his move in Snoke's absence.

Basically, were Palpatine and Snoke in league together or not?

TCTTS said:

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If - and this is a big IF - the hand theory is true, that would be my going theory as well, save for one thing - I think Palpatine created Rey and not Snoke. I think Palpatine is back in actual, physical form, and has been for some time, but it's his spirit inhabiting a clone body. I can't figure out how Snoke and Palpatine cross paths, though, if ever.

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I think:

Palpatine created Snoke which went poorly in terms of him being oddly shaped, etc.....but he then rose up and was the next prodigy. Likely the Emperor already had him created by the events of RotJ thus he wasn't too worried about Luke dying (there is another referring to Snoke). And Snoke of course knew about Kylo so recruited him to train, etc.

Jakku - the battle that downed all those ships, and destroyed their last base and supposedly lab there was in 5 ABY a year after Endor.

But Palpatine also created Rey and she turned out perfect. Somehow she was cold stored for a long time though - when the base and lab were destroyed she was preserved at some point then. Someone on Jakku found her in stasis or whatever and raised her as their own - junk traders who were simply liberating the labs or whatever.

Palpatine may be in physical form or spirit I don't know. Maybe he took a long time to reconstitute. Or he may not be there at all except in flashbacks or whatever - they can de-age Ian McDiarmid easily and Vader in costume is easy to do. That would be the simplest thing. I'm not sure what way to go on Palps. But I don't think he is a large player in the present just that he laid the groundwork for all of this tying back to the OT in a full circle way.

I think simply Palps ultimate plan - creating clones of Anakin via Luke's DNA/Midichlorians - turns out to work out in the other way and Rey is the Rise of Skywalker personified. In lieu of an evil influence she turns out for the light side balancing the dark side.

As I said Lando is the connection between Luke's hand/saber and Maz and also somehow Palp getting the hand (not saying Lando contributes to that though). Lando comes back for some reason (Leia funeral perhaps) or simply as someone who knows about the base or whatever.

PS - Kylo is redeemed somehow or dies - not sure. Personally I hope he dies.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Hm, possibly. But, the whole point of linking Kylo and her in TLJ was to lure her to him, right?

Even if that wasn't the intent by Rian, it could certainly be re-purposed that way by JJ.

Edit: But, I just remembered Snoke was pushing Kylo to kill Rey, so that wouldn't make much sense. Damn it.

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That's why I think it was Palps.

Snoke did not know - he just knew about Kylo and then saw her as a threat. But he was also Palps project gone south - but he may not know that either.

For the most part, I dig this. A few holes here and there, but I could be on board with this general scenario.

Ultimately, though, I'm thinking Palpatine is going to be responsible for creating Anakin and probably even Snoke. But if I had to bet, my gut says Rey has been created/influenced by nothing more than the Force, in order to balance out Palpatine's meddling. It's clean and simple and makes the most sense to me.

TCTTS said:

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Ultimately, though, I'm thinking Palpatine is going to be responsible for creating Anakin and probably even Snoke. But if I had to bet, my gut says Rey has been created/influenced by nothing more than the Force, in order to balance out Palpatine's meddling. It's clean and simple and makes the most sense to me.

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Yeah, this is still where I'm at. I don't really see JJ bringing up these cloning scenarios.

I also kind of think he's just going to leave Snoke out of it. It's annoying, but there's no real reason to drag this movie down by trying to retcon Snoke's character.

Well all good fun - guessing - and we shall see soon.

I'm sure we will all love and hate parts of whatever it is. lol.

But I'm excited at the prospects here just based on the little info we got from that preview - SW has been resurrected when it was left for dead after TLJ (I "liked" it more than most but it certainly had issues).

I'm putting a lot of faith in JJ right now.

<queue the praying dog>

bobinator said:

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Wouldn't the empire have plenty of Anakin's DNA? Why would they need Luke's?

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Don't bother me in my meditation chamber... I'm meditating furiously!

Don't tell Hux that these force users are merely clones.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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TCTTS said:

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If - and this is a big IF - the hand theory is true, that would be my going theory as well, save for one thing - I think Palpatine created Rey and not Snoke. I think Palpatine is back in actual, physical form, and has been for some time, but it's his spirit inhabiting a clone body. I can't figure out how Snoke and Palpatine cross paths, though, if ever.

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I think:

Palpatine created Snoke which went poorly in terms of him being oddly shaped, etc.....but he then rose up and was the next prodigy. Likely the Emperor already had him created by the events of RotJ thus he wasn't too worried about Luke dying (there is another referring to Snoke). And Snoke of course knew about Kylo so recruited him to train, etc.

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The problem with this is, if I remember correctly, I thought at one point it was said that Snoke had been around for a long time like before the Prequel Trilogy. Something to the effect that he was around to see the rise and fall of the Empire. I always took that to mean that Snoke would have been much older than Palps so not sure how he would create Snoke.

I think you're right. I remember something along those lines as well.

An interesting twist would be if the First Order, leaderless and doing poorly in the unknown regions, attempted to clone Palpatine and got Snoke in the bargain. The Imperial remnant had Palpatine's shuttle and flagship when they escaped.

Another possibility for Palpatine's involvement are the sentinel droids he left behind to initiate Operation Cinder after his death, and to guard his vault on Jakku. They have shown up quite a bit in other media, though I don't think this is very likely the case.

That's an interesting idea. I like it.

I was also thinking, what if the Knights of Ren have been attempting to resurrect Palpatine in some way, and that's where they've been.

I think thats why many thought he was Darth Plagueis hiding after he his attempted assassination.

Quote:

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another character would have asked how it got there, but Maz would have either withheld the answer

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Ok, regarding the appearance of Luke's lightsabre in a box in Maz's basement ...

Am I mis-remembering that

Han saw the lightsabre and asked something like, "Where did you get that?"
And Maz responded, "That's an interesting story for another time."

Ha, you're right, that did happen. Completely forgot about that.

You're right!

Totally forgot as well. So at least the mystery of it WAS intentional...

Yeah, walking out of TLJ, I saw that as a negative and was kind of pissed. Since then, I've come to see it as a huge advantage, and have grown increasingly more excited for that very reason.

Well, I think it's only a huge positive because I didn't like that movie, so there's a lot of things they could do with this movie to still make it awesome as opposed to being boxed in by the last movie.