*** BLACK PANTHER ***

121,519 Views | 966 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by wreckt01
dreyOO
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Wth are you talking about? The "man" was called killmongerer for a reason. I'm not shoehorning a damn thing. To equate his situation as a mass killer to that of an innocent person that chose death over a lifetime of suffering and cruelty? Laughable.

The big takeaway here is mass murderers don't want to live in bondage after they finally get caught. Wow, that's deep.
Living Legend
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dreyOO said:

Wth are you talking about? The "man" was called killmongerer for a reason. I'm not shoehorning a damn thing. To equate his situation as a mass killer to that of an innocent person that chose death over a lifetime of suffering and cruelty? Laughable.

The big takeaway here is mass murderers don't want to live in bondage after they finally get caught. Wow, that's deep.
Sigh....
dreyOO
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My post was directed at MBar, not you.
MBAR
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dreyOO said:

Wth are you talking about? The "man" was called killmongerer for a reason. I'm not shoehorning a damn thing. To equate his situation as a mass killer to that of an innocent person that chose death over a lifetime of suffering and cruelty? Laughable.

The big takeaway here is mass murderers don't want to live in bondage after they finally get caught. Wow, that's deep.
The only one doing that is you.
FL_Ag1998
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MBAR said:

I went and rewatched it last night and I have a few thoguhts:

-Killmongers motivation really needs context that IS provided by the movie but I can see people missing it.

When Zuri is speaking to T'Challa about the incident in Oakland, He mentions that N'Jobo (Killmonger's father) was radicalized because he was shocked about what he saw in Oakland. I think I assumed it was a robbery they were planning in the opening scene, but this scene makes it clear that wasn't the case. It was some method of fighting back. The idea was to use the vibranium that Klau stole to help in these actions. I think this plays heavily into Killmonger's motivation to use violence to help the plight of black people all around the world. I think learning this also shapes T'Challa's motivations to open up Wakanda.

When he is in the ancestral plane and speaking with his father, he points out that he isn't crying for his father because he's so desensitized to death by living in the hood where everyone is dying. That shows how his environment and then his subsequent training by the US Navy really molded him into someone who would use violence, terrorism, assassination, and subversion to enact his vision (helping black people around the world). He burns the herb not because he hates Wakanda, but that was in line with his training (Ross literally states this almost verbatim).

There is obvious anger and wanting to seek revenge in Killmonger. He vows to kill anyone who supports T'Challa when they're fighting in the end. But there are many more things tying him to an agenda that was passed down to him by his father than just simple blind revenge/rage. A lot more.


-Effects weren't poor. I could definitely tell they used a green screen at times, but to say the effects were poor is just ridiculous, IMO.

-Klau was fine for what he needed to be, but he was a villain we've seen 348309480948 times in comic book films recently. He's somewhat eccentric and Serkis does a good job, but its a villain that absolutely lacks any time of complexity. I think he was good, but I don't understand the pining for more of him. I wouldn't have been opposed to more of him but I think Killmonger was far more complicated and complex. Not to mention the symbolism of Klau representing Europeans who have robbed Africa of natural resources for profit and then being killed is fairly potent.






All of this x 1000
500,000ags
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KM didn't out Wakanda's actual existence. KM didn't steal weapons or technology. KM didn't demand T'Challa, who actually had a higher propensity to share resources, to change the country's isolationism. He did spend his entire life training and preparing to take the throne and to avenge his father and in a way, his very life experience. He did that first and foremost IMO. I think his father's plans and intentions allowed KM to rationalize his own behavior very well.

In his mind he was the actual last Black Panther and he was shipping out Wakanda's resources to start wars essentially everywhere. He was a great villain, because he had so many aspects that demand empathy. But, he was completely irrational with no regard for individual life, but was somehow on a true goal to black liberation? Idk. Seemed like he just wanted to see Wakanda and the world burn.
MBAR
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500,000ags said:

KM didn't out Wakanda's actual existence. KM didn't steal weapons or technology. KM didn't demand T'Challa, who actually had a higher propensity to share resources, to change the country's isolationism. He did spend his entire life training and preparing to take the throne and to avenge his father and in a way, his very life experience. He did that first and foremost IMO. I think his father's plans and intentions allowed KM to rationalize his own behavior very well.

In his mind he was the actual last Black Panther and he was shipping out Wakanda's resources to start wars essentially everywhere. He was a great villain, because he had so many aspects that demand empathy. But, he was completely irrational with no regard for individual life, but was somehow on a true goal to black liberation? Idk.
T'challa tells him in the final fight that KM has become like his enemies so I think you're not wrong about the rationalization bit. So I do think he was motivated by black liberation but I think he was blind to how his methods were counterproductive and just wrong.
Living Legend
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dreyOO said:

My post was directed at MBar, not you.
My sigh is still directed at you tho.
500,000ags
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To me, the dividing line was that he was so violent towards black people even. He shot his girlfriend without a thought. He almost choked out an old woman. How can he care so much for the group and be so oblivious to individuals.
dreyOO
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MBAR said:

dreyOO said:

Wth are you talking about? The "man" was called killmongerer for a reason. I'm not shoehorning a damn thing. To equate his situation as a mass killer to that of an innocent person that chose death over a lifetime of suffering and cruelty? Laughable.

The big takeaway here is mass murderers don't want to live in bondage after they finally get caught. Wow, that's deep.
The only one doing that is you.
Then agree to disagree. You see it as a powerful metaphor, and I say it was really poor. Sure, they both had the same bloodlines and chose death over chains. But there are so many fundamental differences between he and his ancestors. I can almost see his ancestors looking down while he's saying that nonsense and replying back: "No son, you are a killer. Don't associate yourself with us when you've acted the way you have. In fact, be a real man and go face the consequences."

And I would have changed that ending in a heartbeat. He should have gotten healed, faced a jail sentence, cozied up to his cousin...and then in an upcoming Black Panther break out and backstab T'Challa.

Minor segue: I thought the more powerful metaphor in this movie was the abandonment of an American kid to fend for himself on the streets. Strong family ties back in the homeland where his cousin was loved and brought up right. You can almost imagine how he could have turned out, but KM is completely neglected and turned bad. Kinda reminds me of Magua in Last of the Mohicans. That really struck a chord with me. But by the time he had done all his hell raising in this movie, I was ready for him to be dealt with. Maybe that's why I have such a bone to pick with his line there.
dreyOO
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That's fine. I don't mind differing opinions. But I disagree with the the description that what I posted was ridiculous or shoehorning anything. I think it's a very valid opinion.

You can continue to sigh on the sidelines.
israeliag
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You mentioned KM was being irrational, though I view it as him acting overly rational. Almost a Vulcan like approach of the needs of the many (or really, the many he cares about - the black diaspora) outweighs the needs of the few or the one.
500,000ags
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That's entirely possible. At the end of the day, my thoughts don't take away that KM was in many ways the perfect dichotomy to T'Challa; life experience, wealth, relationships, etc. Coogler hit a home run in that regard. Even at the end, T'Challa never says he is going to kill or jail KM, but that's the only solution in KM's eyes. I plan to watch again before it leaves theaters.
FL_Ag1998
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Quote:

And I would have changed that ending in a heartbeat. He should have gotten healed, faced a jail sentence, cozied up to his cousin...and then in an upcoming Black Panther break out and backstab T'Challa.


Sure that ending would set up a future antagonist for a sequel, but the filmmaker was going for something more here than just an origin story for a comic book hero in a big comic book movie universe that would lead to sequels, etc. He was going for something powerful deeper. Hence the final fight scene taking place on a literal Underground Railroad and the death at the end accompanied by the line about slavery.

Not to sound uppity, but again, I think some of you are viewing this as just a comic book movie when its meant to be so much more.
PatAg
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Would have been nice to have an actual discussion about the movie like with other marvel movies. Guess that wasnt possible.
Scotty Flamingo
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Sex Panther
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Kenny Omega said:




San Diego Forever
**** THE RANGERS

**** GARCIA

ALTUVE IS GOD
wangus12
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Quote:

The only real issue I had is they said Killmonger graduated from Annapolis at 19. Can someone clarify if that is even remotely possible? I would think to start at one of the military academies you'd have to be at enlistment age and I also don't think AP credits would carry him the rest of the way to graduation.
Yeah that is something that I thought was silly.

You have to be 17 to go to the military academies and you cannot graduate early. You are there for 4 years. Now you can finish your undergrad early and start a Master's program, but its always 4 years.

Sounds like Killmonger wasn't that oppressed if he got special privileges. It takes a decent amount of help to get that far. Plue he was just a huge dick to everyone.
fig96
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israeliag
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Edit: I don't have Twitter at work and didn't see that Fig beat me to it.
texasaggie04
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Finally saw it tonight. Here's my question. Who made captain America's shield? I thought it was papa stark, but how would he cut and mold the thing into that shape?
Farmer1906
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texasaggie04 said:

Finally saw it tonight. Here's my question. Who made captain America's shield? I thought it was papa stark, but how would he cut and mold the thing into that shape?
Good question.

This is from the comic tie into Cap1.
israeliag
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texasaggie04 said:

Finally saw it tonight. Here's my question. Who made captain America's shield? I thought it was papa stark, but how would he cut and mold the thing into that shape?


I would uspect like other metals it could still be melted. Might need sustained arc reactor level energy to do so but still coneivable.
hurleyag
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At first I thought Banner was going to come out of the hut in the 2nd post credit scene.
Redstone
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Please be on the lookout for appropriations - Twitter seems to be the worst place, and @twittersupport is fairly responsive. Here's an example:

coldmoose
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Who is it supposed to be? One of those fan generated things for a character in Black Panther 2?
Not a great artist to say the least.
One of the eyes is messed up and the torso looks kind of off.
Trident 88
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hurleyag said:

At first I thought Banner was going to come out of the hut in the 2nd post credit scene.
I expected to see Bucky come out because Civil War put him and Cap in Wakanda at the end (or in a post credit scene).
Farmer1906
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hurleyag said:

At first I thought Banner was going to come out of the hut in the 2nd post credit scene.
Did you miss Thor Rag?
mazag08
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Finally saw it. Yawn. Visual we're awesome, but the story was yet another prototypical origin style story. Villains were atrociously bad and I had no empathy for them. Suspense didn't exist because you always knew what was going to happen next. Wait, you didn't expect the mountain tribe to swoop in and save the day.. at exactly the perfect moment?

Black Panther was awesome, but his movie was less interesting than Thor 2.
mazag08
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And where the hell is the soul stone?
TexasAggie_02
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mazag08 said:

And where the hell is the soul stone?


2 common theories.

*it's in the meteor, and is what gives the heart shaped herb it's powers

* Heimdal has it, bc he can see all the souls in the 9 realms
rhutton125
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I also have this theory:

- we haven't seen it yet but Thanos will go find it
Farmer1906
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jtstanley4621
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rhutton125 said:

I also have this theory:

- we haven't seen it yet but Thanos will go find it


Wow you really went out on a limb there!
FL_Ag1998
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mazag08 said:

Finally saw it. Yawn. Visual we're awesome, but the story was yet another prototypical origin style story. Villains were atrociously bad and I had no empathy for them. Suspense didn't exist because you always knew what was going to happen next. Wait, you didn't expect the mountain tribe to swoop in and save the day.. at exactly the perfect moment?

Black Panther was awesome, but his movie was less interesting than Thor 2.


I'm a Thor fan and even I think that's an absurd statement.
 
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