Didn't they say she hadn't eaten in days/weeks?

Pretty sure that's all it is.

Phrasing said:

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Texaggie7nine said:

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Phrasing said:

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So does anyone think this theory that Dany is already poisoned makes sense? Not sure I like that ending - was hoping to see her go out in a bigger death - but then again I was saying the same thing about Cersei and ended up being fine with it. If Dany is already dying and Cersei and Euron are already dead, then what drama do we have left?

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I don't buy it. She looked terrible when she wasn't eating. Then she looked better on the dragon. If she was poisoned she would look even worse in the last shot we see her face.

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Don't buy it either.

Every poison we have seen in this show works pretty quick. yes, there could be another one out there that works a slow death, but why would Varys use that kind of poison and not just get it over quickly so she didn't have time to burn the city.

Also, if she did die and turn the throne over to Jon, would anyone really trust another Targ at this point? I'm pretty sure she wants Jon dead anyway since he has the better claim.

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If the poisoning is true, then that means Varys could be blamed for her going napalm-crazy due to her deteriorated state. Irony at its finest.

MuckRaker96 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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But we need to have Jaime and Euron face off... How do we get there? Make the previously stoppable dragon unstoppable forcing Euron to shore at the exact time and place where Jaime is.

That takes us from brilliant works of writing to something out of a high school English class.

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But the "unlikely timing" complaint is kinda laughable. If you don't like coincidence timing, I'm assuming you hate every action movie that has ever existed. Were you mad when Aragorn, Gmili, Legolas and the Undead Army showed up at the last moment to save Gondor? Or in the previous film when Gandalf and the Riders of Rohan did likewise at Helm's Deep? An Euron ambush would have been cooler, but tons of films use extreme coincidence time and place meeting as a plot device.

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Legolas searched out the Undead Army to join him at Gondor.

Gandalf told the troops to "look to the west on the 3rd day blah blah blah".

Both of those used your unrealistic, but typical, dramatic timing -- it was already part of the story that the characters were striving to be at that location around that time.

This was just two characters that just happened to walk up the same spot at the same time. It was working backwards from what they needed to happen, instead of forward logically.

So the weird thing about Varys was the statements he made to the girl.


First he says "we'll try again at supper" - could mean just to get her to eat. But that shows concern for her well being and I doubt he has any at this point - and why would he be monitoring her eating to my knowledge he never has before.

Then he just gets back to what he was doing but she says she thinks they are watching her. He asks who and she says the soldiers. Varys says that is their job. So why would the soldiers care if she was just preparing her food or whatever and why would she be worried about them watching if she was not doing anything.

He then reminds her that "the bigger the risk the bigger the reward". So what's the risk and what's the reward.

She could be saying they are watching her reporting to Varys because she might be the one sneaking out his letters. So it might have nothing to do with the food and just that risk. But I still don't get why he is concerned with her eating (when he is already openly against her to tyrion) and yet trying to get out word that she is not the real heir.

They could have intercepted his letters and therefore know of his treason. When Tyrion tells Dany of Varys treason she shows no surprise - her focus was on Jon as the first treason that started it all, and then how Tyrion handled it. But she was not surprised in the least nor did she ask for any more detail - but had him killed.

So something more is up there and poisoning is one possibility. The other is simple treason with the letters.

His concerns for her eating are what do not make sense - unless it was poisoning or just a misdirection.

I definitely agree with the 'Vary's was trying to poison her' theory, I just don't think he was successful. And I do think the girl was sneaking out his letters.

I actually thought it was the same girl that we saw go through the gates into King's Landing and I thought she might be delivering some kind of message to someone (that's actually why I thought the Golden Company might be flipping before the battle), but my wife said that wasn't the same girl and I was obviously wrong about all of that.

It was poisoning. Not complicated at all. He tried to poison her before and he's trying to do it again now. That's all that convo was hinting at.

I definitely think the trying to get her to eat thing was definitely him trying to poison her. He said, we will try again at supper, so at that point, there was no way he could have poisoned her.

However, the next scene we get is him burning a letter, led off in chains and subsequently executed. Who knows if he succeeded at supper or at any meal in between those two points in time or not.

My question is, why would he use a slow acting poison and give her time to carry out the torching of KL? Counter point to that is that D&D in their infinite wisdom and self inflicted time crunch just needed it to be that way for dramatic effect - which if true, blows.

redline248 said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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This panning shot around Strickland to the cavalry charge was a great callback to BoB. (Another Sapochnik-directed battle.)



Speaking of which, as much as I've enjoyed Seasons 7-8, I don't think any battle in these seasons has come close to matching this one moment from Battle of the *******s, for me.

The feeling of impending doom for Jon Snow, the climactic nature of it, the music swelling, just everything about it is perfect.

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For a split second I thought "they aren't going to have him stand off the whole charge like Jon, are they?" Subtle nod to the kind of person Jon is

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Phrasing said:

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If Dany is already dying and Cersei and Euron are already dead, then what drama do we have left?

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We're basically down a few big questions anyway right?

• Will Dany kill Tyrion before someone kills her?
• Does Dany die?
• If so, will it be Jon or Arya (or a wildcard)?
• How do the Starks decide to rule Westeros?
• Is there anything left with Bran?

There's some other questions you could throw in there, but that's basically it right?

Urban Ag said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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It was poisoning. Not complicated at all. He tried to poison her before and he's trying to do it again now. That's all that convo was hinting at.

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Tried before? It's been awhile but I thought Varys was playing the part for Robert, acting like he was trying to carry out orders to have Dany killed, but was actually feeding Jorah info to keep her alive. In other words, Varys sets up the assassin to poison her, to placate Robert, but informs Jorah so ensure it doesn't happen. IIRC.

/none of the above was meant specifically for you other than the question about Varys attempting to poison Dany in S1.

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Nah, Varys actually tried to kill her. Jorah changed his mind at the last second.

M.C. Swag said:

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Phrasing said:

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I definitely think the trying to get her to eat thing was definitely him trying to poison her. He said, we will try again at supper, so at that point, there was no way he could have poisoned her.

However, the next scene we get is him burning a letter, led off in chains and subsequently executed. Who knows if he succeeded at supper or at any meal in between those two points in time or not.

My question is, why would he use a slow acting poison and give her time to carry out the torching of KL? Counter point to that is that D&D in their infinite wisdom and self inflicted time crunch just needed it to be that way for dramatic effect - which if true, blows.

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He tried to poison her; it didn't work. That's it.

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Good, that's what I'm hoping for. Thanks for bringing me off the Tommen ledge.

M.C. Swag said:

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Nah, Varys actually tried to kill her. Jorah changed his mind at the last second.

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Yeah, this is how I took that as well. I wasn't sure why Varys wanted her dead at that point, but I took it that he did try to kill her. Jorah had changed his mind about her at that point and was in the right place in the right time to sniff it out and prevent the assassination.

Does anyone remember the scene with Varys and Allyrio (sp?) in the tunnel in the Red Keep in Season 1? The one where Arya was down there chasing cats and overheard them. What were they talking about - even during the rewatch I couldn't make sense of that convo - was that Varys plotting to have Dany killed? if so, that would be strange since Allyrio was the one that housed Dany and her brother all those years.

Phrasing said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Nah, Varys actually tried to kill her. Jorah changed his mind at the last second.

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Yeah, this is how I took that as well. I wasn't sure why Varys wanted her dead at that point, but I took it that he did try to kill her. Jorah had changed his mind about her at that point and was in the right place in the right time to sniff it out and prevent the assassination.

Does anyone remember the scene with Varys and Allyrio (sp?) in the tunnel in the Red Keep in Season 1? The one where Arya was down there chasing cats and overheard them. What were they talking about - even during the rewatch I couldn't make sense of that convo - was that Varys plotting to have Dany killed? if so, that would be strange since Allyrio was the one that housed Dany and her brother all those years.

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At that time Varys was serving Viserys. They (Varys and Ilyrio) were the ones who orchestrated her marriage to Khal Drogo so that Viserys could have his army.

They were talking about Ned finding out about Gendry and what he's planning to do.

Basically Illyrio was saying that Drogo's army (behind Viserys) won't be coming for Westeros any time soon, and Varys was saying that something needs to happen soon because the Starks and Lannisters are going to war.

bobinator said:

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Phrasing said:

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If Dany is already dying and Cersei and Euron are already dead, then what drama do we have left?

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We're basically down a few big questions anyway right?

• Will Dany kill Tyrion before someone kills her?
• Does Dany die?
• If so, will it be Jon or Arya (or a wildcard)?
• How do the Starks decide to rule Westeros?
• Is there anything left with Bran?

There's some other questions you could throw in there, but that's basically it right?

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Agree - I will add some minor ones that may or not get shown:

(1) What's up with Gendry and Davos?
(2) How does Brienne's story end?
(3) Does Dorne play a part anymore? (I'm thinking no)
(4) Bronn? (I'm thinking we don't see him again)
(5) Sam and Gilley and Sam? (someone said they could see the last scene being Sam writing this story down somewhere - I think that is a possibility as well)
(6) Tormund (Unless Jon ends up there with them living out his days up north, I think that last goodbye was final for the show)

Riverlands, Vale, Ellaria are all done and we don't see them in the last episode.

chipotle said:

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saltydog13 said:

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It was Shadowfax as said earlier in the thread

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Nope, it was Miracle

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Which should mean Arya is either on the road to Judea or is now armed with Mighty Joint.

M.C. Swag said:

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Phrasing said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Nah, Varys actually tried to kill her. Jorah changed his mind at the last second.

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Yeah, this is how I took that as well. I wasn't sure why Varys wanted her dead at that point, but I took it that he did try to kill her. Jorah had changed his mind about her at that point and was in the right place in the right time to sniff it out and prevent the assassination.

Does anyone remember the scene with Varys and Allyrio (sp?) in the tunnel in the Red Keep in Season 1? The one where Arya was down there chasing cats and overheard them. What were they talking about - even during the rewatch I couldn't make sense of that convo - was that Varys plotting to have Dany killed? if so, that would be strange since Allyrio was the one that housed Dany and her brother all those years.

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At that time Varys was serving Viserys. They (Varys and Ilyrio) were the ones who orchestrated her marriage to Khal Drogo so that Viserys could have his army.

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So if he was serving Viserys, then why would he try and poison Dany on behalf of Robert? So did he actually warn Jorah?

You sure? Varys conspired with Illyrio Mopatis to evacuate Dany and Viserys to Pentos. It's the only reason they were even alive when GOT starts out. Varys and Illyrio have been close allies since they were teens. And Illyrio keeps sending help to Dany (sending Strong Belwas with Selmy, later helping Tyrion).

Why would both Varys and Illyrio go through all that trouble to keep Dany alive if at some point Varys actually was trying to carry out Robert's orders? I thought he was simply playing Robert and always intended to keep the Targ kids alive and well. Are you saying Varys was in agreement with Robert that Dany should die and later had a chance of heart?

Phrasing said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Phrasing said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Nah, Varys actually tried to kill her. Jorah changed his mind at the last second.

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Yeah, this is how I took that as well. I wasn't sure why Varys wanted her dead at that point, but I took it that he did try to kill her. Jorah had changed his mind about her at that point and was in the right place in the right time to sniff it out and prevent the assassination.

Does anyone remember the scene with Varys and Allyrio (sp?) in the tunnel in the Red Keep in Season 1? The one where Arya was down there chasing cats and overheard them. What were they talking about - even during the rewatch I couldn't make sense of that convo - was that Varys plotting to have Dany killed? if so, that would be strange since Allyrio was the one that housed Dany and her brother all those years.

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At that time Varys was serving Viserys. They (Varys and Ilyrio) were the ones who orchestrated her marriage to Khal Drogo so that Viserys could have his army.

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So if he was serving Viserys, then why would he try and poison Dany on behalf of Robert? So did he actually warn Jorah?

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Viserys was murdered by Khal Drogo before the assasination attempt.

Urban Ag said:

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You sure? Varys conspired with Illyrio Mopatis to evacuate Dany and Viserys to Pentos. It's the only reason they were even alive when GOT starts out. Varys and Illyrio have been close allies since they were teens. And Illyrio keeps sending help to Dany (sending Strong Belwas with Selmy, later helping Tyrion).

Why would both Varys and Illyrio go through all that trouble to keep Dany alive if at some point Varys actually was trying to carry out Robert's orders? I thought he was simply playing Robert and always intended to keep the Targ kids alive and well. Are you saying Varys was in agreement with Robert that Dany should die and later had a chance of heart?

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lol yea man. The Mad King sent Dany and Viserys away. Varys originally backed Robert and his rebellion (he mentioned it in S7). Then once robert turned into a drunk, he turned to Viserys and conspired to get him to the throne. He didn't care at all about Dany other than how it could help Viserys.

Then Viserys died and Dany became important. Lol just re-watch the show.

Varys didn't have anything to do with the assassination attempt on Dany, that was done by King Robert.

Phrasing said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Nah, Varys actually tried to kill her. Jorah changed his mind at the last second.

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Yeah, this is how I took that as well. I wasn't sure why Varys wanted her dead at that point, but I took it that he did try to kill her. Jorah had changed his mind about her at that point and was in the right place in the right time to sniff it out and prevent the assassination.

Does anyone remember the scene with Varys and Allyrio (sp?) in the tunnel in the Red Keep in Season 1? The one where Arya was down there chasing cats and overheard them. What were they talking about - even during the rewatch I couldn't make sense of that convo - was that Varys plotting to have Dany killed? if so, that would be strange since Allyrio was the one that housed Dany and her brother all those years.

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No, they were plotting against Robert and trying to delay the war between the Starks and the Lannisters. That was their game.

That's why I don't buy that at any time Varys was actually, seriously, attempting to see through with Dany being killed considering he and Illyrio had been working together to keep the Targ kids alive since the sack of KL.

bobinator said:

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It is great that this thread has literally moved onto deciding if a horse is dead or not. I'm here for it.

FWIW I don't think that horse is clearly dead in that scene. I think he was blown over and he's like 'you know what, my rider got thrown, I'm just gonna lay here a bit and pretend I'm dead and see how this plays out.'

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it is an undead horse! the baby white walker is alive and a ninja hiding out with the northern army!!!!