Quote:

---

I don't see how this changes that. If anything, it makes it worse. What is the point of living if one day the Queen might decide to come by and torch your entire city? Everywhere she goes now, people will be trying to kill her.

---

It worked well for her forefathers. They came to Westeros and burned up castles and villages left and right. And then ruled for 300 years.

smokeythebear said:

---

I would have written it like this:
Dany isn't eating because she doesn't trust anyone around her. She's proven right when Tyrion finds out Varys was trying to poison her. She screams at Tyrion. She screams at Varys. Kills Varys. Screams at Jon. Jon says "I don't won' it". She says "then prove it by being there in the morning and helping me take the city.

The battle plays out as before. Battle is won, she's on the perch and the bells start to ring. Then Cersei turns to Qyburn and calmly says "do it". Qyburn says "...you're grace, are you sure this is a wi..." Cersei yells "DO IT!".

As the bells are ringing and Dany is letting down her guard a bit because she's officially won, pockets of wildfire start erupting all over the city. Dany mistakes this for the citizens trying to fight back against her forces so she torches them all.

Cersei smirks as she sees the people cry out in agony as she's tricked them into thinking Dany was the enemy.

---

I liked the episode, but this is great!

cbr said:

---

bobinator said:

---

Her alternatives were "literally anything else."

Again your "she decided she had to make an example of the whole city" theory is fine, but we didn't see that decision get made either.

And this isn't like the ending of Inception or something where it's supposed to be open for interpretation. In the end it's ended up that way, but that definitely wasn't the intention of the writers.

---

this is a worthy point to debate.

so, if she just kills Cersi, drops the red keep, and lets the lannister army surrender to jon, what happens?

play it out.

unless she and jon are king and queen, how can it end in any way other than death and tragedy for Danarys and probably jon too?

and jon refused that offer.



If everyone in KL is fine, even the armies are largely intact, do you think anyone up north or in the other houses would be too afraid of Danarys to revolt against their masters, instead of suiting up and going to war against her?

or do you think their soldiers would say - **** that my lord, you can ride up there and **** with her all by yourself!

i dont. Varys didnt. Sansa didnt. Cerci didnt. ultimately Danarys didnt. obviously.

They sure will now. Now all Danarys has to do is get over on her own 'friends', and she will survive and rule. Not happily, most likely, but at least she has a chance.

They'll probably get her, but if they do, i expect the series will end with the knowledge that the backstabbing and warring will continue, the wheel will keep spinning, and the game goes on.

---

To be fair, this is exactly my point though. Game of Thrones has always been a show where character development is more important than the plot. Develop these interesting characters and then present them with a situation and see how THEY would react. Ned being executed wasn't because of some elaborate plot, it was a decision by one character that developed his character. As we see these characters develop, they typically act within their character very well. Except in seasons 7 and 8 when it becomes clear that the PLOT is now more important than character motivation. So now we have the PLOT dictating that Dany must burn down the whole city, so they reverse engineer the Mad Queen suspicion into Varys (who willingly signed up to advise her) and Sansa and Arya (who have absolutely no reason to distrust Dany except to push the plot. She ****ing SAVED them). Even Tyrion, every piece of advise he gives her backfires on her so if anything, Tyrion should distrust himself, not her.

So yea, I expected the ending to be an amalgamation of multiple people "playing it out" and seeing where all the cards land. Instead, we were told basically "Dany goes insane because that gives us a chance to destroy everything in a really cool way".

The Debt said:

---

pete_claw98 said:

---

So what if Bran tells Sansa how the Night King was created...........insert Dragon Glass into Jon's heart (really it could be anybody in Winterfell).

Night King fights the Dragon Queen.

Too much? Maybe in Season 9. Oh, I figure this board could write Season 9 and send it to HBO. ????

---

I have a hard time believing anyone putting dragonglass into a human heart makes a white walker. I think it was an additional magic.

---

Howland Reed shows up with one of the remaining COF from the Neck...

When Tywin was asking Tommen about what characteristics make a good king, Tywin mentions one Targaryen "the Pious" who was overly religious and starved himself to death (attachment to food is worldliness), what if he was just paranoid about being poisoned?

smokeythebear said:

---

Furthermore, if Dany REALLY goes Mad Queen and wants to rule with complete control and dominant fear, then she should have explicitly sought out Jon and killed him and his troops after the battle was won. He's immediately a threat to her claim and far more important to kill than just innocent civilians.

---

i expect that is the next episode. she couldnt really fry him without frying grey worm and the onion

though i dont think she can trust the onion either

she will have to pick new advisers from the common people if she wins.

i expect she will be highly conflicted in killing him and tyrion as well, but if she falters they'll kill her.

smokeythebear said:

---

cbr said:

---

bobinator said:

---

Her alternatives were "literally anything else."

Again your "she decided she had to make an example of the whole city" theory is fine, but we didn't see that decision get made either.

And this isn't like the ending of Inception or something where it's supposed to be open for interpretation. In the end it's ended up that way, but that definitely wasn't the intention of the writers.

---

this is a worthy point to debate.

so, if she just kills Cersi, drops the red keep, and lets the lannister army surrender to jon, what happens?

play it out.

unless she and jon are king and queen, how can it end in any way other than death and tragedy for Danarys and probably jon too?

and jon refused that offer.



If everyone in KL is fine, even the armies are largely intact, do you think anyone up north or in the other houses would be too afraid of Danarys to revolt against their masters, instead of suiting up and going to war against her?

or do you think their soldiers would say - **** that my lord, you can ride up there and **** with her all by yourself!

i dont. Varys didnt. Sansa didnt. Cerci didnt. ultimately Danarys didnt. obviously.

They sure will now. Now all Danarys has to do is get over on her own 'friends', and she will survive and rule. Not happily, most likely, but at least she has a chance.

They'll probably get her, but if they do, i expect the series will end with the knowledge that the backstabbing and warring will continue, the wheel will keep spinning, and the game goes on.

---

To be fair, this is exactly my point though. Game of Thrones has always been a show where character development is more important than the plot. Develop these interesting characters and then present them with a situation and see how THEY would react. Ned being executed wasn't because of some elaborate plot, it was a decision by one character that developed his character. As we see these characters develop, they typically act within their character very well. Except in seasons 7 and 8 when it becomes clear that the PLOT is now more important than character motivation. So now we have the PLOT dictating that Dany must burn down the whole city, so they reverse engineer the Mad Queen suspicion into Varys (who willingly signed up to advise her) and Sansa and Arya (who have absolutely no reason to distrust Dany except to push the plot. She ****ing SAVED them). Even Tyrion, every piece of advise he gives her backfires on her so if anything, Tyrion should distrust himself, not her.

So yea, I expected the ending to be an amalgamation of multiple people "playing it out" and seeing where all the cards land. Instead, we were told basically "Dany goes insane because that gives us a chance to destroy everything in a really cool way".

---

well, i disagree. if the lannisters are to get the throne, stark has to die. They had to do that.
i do think they spent 7 seasons setting up people to be really interested in characters, only to ultimately watch them all try their hand at the game, and get killed by it.... concluding in the penultimate point that the game itself was the real evil the whole time.

cbr said:

---

she will have to pick new advisers from the common people if she wins.

---

Who she also can't trust.

https://www.mic.com/p/the-game-of-thrones-white-walker-babies-theory-hints-at-a-terrifying-finale-showdown-17872720

Interesting theory here.

That's why I told ZJS that it's not a dead horse just yet. This last episode could fill some holes for us. Though, I personally don't have a lot of faith that's how they have written it.

If Dany is anything but completely ruthless and power-hungry this weekend, then the writing is utter garbage and the story I destroyed. They committed to the heel turn in a HUGE way. They must at least follow through with it.

Texaggie7nine said:

---

https://www.mic.com/p/how-game-of-thrones-cersei-prophecy-affects-the-queens-future-on-the-show-17625187

Interesting theory here.

---

That is evidence why her death in the show can not be the same as the book.

I posted the wrong URL. I corrected it above.

In the preview weren't they all back in the Dragonstone throne room?

smokeythebear said:

---

That's why I told ZJS that it's not a dead horse just yet. This last episode could fill some holes for us. Though, I personally don't have a lot of faith that's how they have written it.

If Dany is anything but completely ruthless and power-hungry this weekend, then the writing is utter garbage and the story I destroyed. They committed to the heel turn in a HUGE way. They must at least follow through with it.

---

You are talking forward looking now. That's different. Not a dead horse.

You don't think she could have some regrets about it? I mean it ain't gonna redeem her but I think actions in the heat of battle are sometimes regretted later. Very common for combat. She maybe can express that while still being power hungry. Perhaps privately even.

I would agree anything like a complete reversal would be terrible. If they make her completely benign and benevolent now and everyone just says "ok fine she made a mistake let's just move on" and lived happily ever after then yeah....terrible.

It just wouldn't surprise me for her to have some regret.

A complete screw this place and return to Essos would not have surprised me either - except we already see that's not the case in previews. But really... why stay? She'll never be loved like she was there. She torched the capital. And she's now lost everything she had coming here - most of her armies, all of her support system and most of her advisers, 2 dragons and the love she thought she found.

Texaggie7nine said:

---

https://www.mic.com/p/the-game-of-thrones-white-walker-babies-theory-hints-at-a-terrifying-finale-showdown-17872720

Interesting theory here.

---

After what I've seen this season, I don't think D&D have it in them to get this much story into the last 80 minutes of the show.

My take is that since The People of Westeros wont accept her with love, and they cling to non-Targaryens - none of them are innocent any longer in her mind. The turn is that she considers all Westerosi as enemies that must be subjugated and conquered now. She's a Targaryen, damnit, she WILL rule.

AustinAg2K said:

---

cbr said:

---

she will have to pick new advisers from the common people if she wins.

---

Who she also can't trust.

---

my plan, if i were her, would be to gain control, and then be really good to the common people, so she certainly could trust them.

it seems to be pretty commonly known that KL was a cesspool. Only those people she personally fried would have a hatred, and frankly, who in that world doesnt have a relative killed by some lord.?

Basically, we can break down the decision to torch all of the city into three possibilities:

1. Calculated military strategy
2. Targaryen insanity.
3. Beeches be crazy

If I am leaving one out, chime in.

I think the way it was set-up, most think it is some mix of 2 and a lot of 3. Dany is upset that her friends and support have died, and Jon rejects her --> she lashes out "hell hath no fury like a woman scorn."

The SJWs out there are freaking out b/c they think it is number 3. I think a lot of book readers and others may be disappointed that they didn't flesh out #2 enough (that's where I think they dropped the ball).

I don't think you can say it's #1 unless she explains that in the next episode. I think it could've worked to do it that way (the way cbr is saying) but I don't think there is any actual "textual" evidence to support that conclusion.

Additionally, if this was a cold, calculated move by Dany, she had to know that Jon would never go for it. The biggest threat to her crown, even before the battle at Kings Landing, was and still is Jon Snow. He could rally all the banners in the seven kingdoms by revealing his heritage and could've taken Cersei down without Dany at this point, because everyone would've followed combination of Jon and Targaryen name.

Is Jon gonna have the balls to confront Dany about her city nuking or is he gonna haul ass back to Tormund?

chase128 said:

---

Is Jon gonna have the balls to confront Dany about her city nuking or is he gonna haul ass back to Tormund?

---

My end game theory is rooted in 2 real world reasons.

1. The show is not rewatchable (I.e. HBO loses money) if in the end Dany sits the Iron Throne (figuratively since it's likely kaput) after what she did. It's always been about Jon Snow and he's what makes this show rewatchable - rooting for the lowly adopted-"*******" son of Ned Stark who always does what's right no matter the cost (evein if he gets bailed out alot)

2. They writers and GRRM want a sad bittersweet ending to stay in line with their style throughout. What would be bittersweet? Jon finally waking up to his enamor with Dany and taking it upon himself to end the madness - as a duty to the realm.

cbr said:

---

AustinAg2K said:

---

cbr said:

---

she will have to pick new advisers from the common people if she wins.

---

Who she also can't trust.

---

my plan, if i were her, would be to gain control, and then be really good to the common people, so she certainly could trust them.

it seems to be pretty commonly known that KL was a cesspool. Only those people she personally fried would have a hatred, and frankly, who in that world doesnt have a relative killed by some lord.?

---

I think she burned that bridge... (Pun intended)

Texaggie7nine said:

---

https://www.mic.com/p/the-game-of-thrones-white-walker-babies-theory-hints-at-a-terrifying-finale-showdown-17872720

Interesting theory here.

---

if my read is correct, we may get an ending that shows that armageddon (the white walkers) will come again someday, but certainly not any time soon. and an ending that shows that either danarys wins but is miserable... or more likely that she dies like everyone else that tried to play, and some new faces indicate that they are going to start the killing/scheming/warring all over again.

i think the real theme is the game is evil, all consuming for those that step into the ring, and that you can't stop it because it's human nature....not even with the threat of the end of the world looming.

AustinAg2K said:

---

cbr said:

---

AustinAg2K said:

---

cbr said:

---

she will have to pick new advisers from the common people if she wins.

---

Who she also can't trust.

---

my plan, if i were her, would be to gain control, and then be really good to the common people, so she certainly could trust them.

it seems to be pretty commonly known that KL was a cesspool. Only those people she personally fried would have a hatred, and frankly, who in that world doesnt have a relative killed by some lord.?

---

I think she burned that bridge... (Pun intended)

---

only for the dead ones in KL.

bangobango said:

---

Basically, we can break down the decision to torch all of the city into three possibilities:

1. Calculated military strategy
2. Targaryen insanity.
3. Beeches be crazy

If I am leaving one out, chime in.

I think the way it was set-up, most think it is some mix of 2 and a lot of 3. Dany is upset that her friends and support have died, and Jon rejects her --> she lashes out "hell hath no fury like a woman scorn."

The SJWs out there are freaking out b/c they think it is number 3. I think a lot of book readers and others may be disappointed that they didn't flesh out #2 enough (that's where I think they dropped the ball).

I don't think you can say it's #1 unless she explains that in the next episode. I think it could've worked to do it that way (the way cbr is saying) but I don't think there is any actual "textual" evidence to support that conclusion.

Additionally, if this was a cold, calculated move by Dany, she had to know that Jon would never go for it. The biggest threat to her crown, even before the battle at Kings Landing, was and still is Jon Snow. He could rally all the banners in the seven kingdoms by revealing his heritage and could've taken Cersei down without Dany at this point, because everyone would've followed combination of Jon and Targaryen name.

---

You think the rest of the Seven Kingdoms are going to rally around another Targaryen at this point? The last two have been nuts.

Also, the writers ruled out #1 in the post show interview.

bangobango said:

---

Basically, we can break down the decision to torch all of the city into three possibilities:

1. Calculated military strategy
2. Targaryen insanity.
3. Beeches be crazy

If I am leaving one out, chime in.

I think the way it was set-up, most think it is some mix of 2 and a lot of 3. Dany is upset that her friends and support have died, and Jon rejects her --> she lashes out "hell hath no fury like a woman scorn."

The SJWs out there are freaking out b/c they think it is number 3. I think a lot of book readers and others may be disappointed that they didn't flesh out #2 enough (that's where I think they dropped the ball).

I don't think you can say it's #1 unless she explains that in the next episode. I think it could've worked to do it that way (the way cbr is saying) but I don't think there is any actual "textual" evidence to support that conclusion.

Additionally, if this was a cold, calculated move by Dany, she had to know that Jon would never go for it. The biggest threat to her crown, even before the battle at Kings Landing, was and still is Jon Snow. He could rally all the banners in the seven kingdoms by revealing his heritage and could've taken Cersei down without Dany at this point, because everyone would've followed combination of Jon and Targaryen name.

---

you left out my entire theory?

4 is: human nature (and thus ' the game') made it a political prerequisite for her continued survival

Episode IV said:

---

chase128 said:

---

Is Jon gonna have the balls to confront Dany about her city nuking or is he gonna haul ass back to Tormund?

---

My end game theory is rooted in 2 real world reasons.

1. The show is not rewatchable (I.e. HBO loses money) if in the end Dany sits the Iron Throne (figuratively since it's likely kaput) after what she did. It's always been about Jon Snow and he's what makes this

2. They writers and GRRM want a sad bittersweet ending to stay in line with their style throughout. What would be bittersweet? Jon finally waking up to his enamor with Dany and taking it upon himself to end the madness - as a duty to the realm.

---

Yeah. And Jon has not had his moment really.

He wasn't at Blackwater or any of the battles south of the Neck.

He had some missions beyond the wall. But even hardhome where he killed a WW ended in full retreat.

He was bailed out in the BOB

He fought valiantly at WF but Arya got the moment.

I mean he was brought back for a reason. I hope.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

---

Episode IV said:

---

chase128 said:

---

Is Jon gonna have the balls to confront Dany about her city nuking or is he gonna haul ass back to Tormund?

---

My end game theory is rooted in 2 real world reasons.

1. The show is not rewatchable (I.e. HBO loses money) if in the end Dany sits the Iron Throne (figuratively since it's likely kaput) after what she did. It's always been about Jon Snow and he's what makes this

2. They writers and GRRM want a sad bittersweet ending to stay in line with their style throughout. What would be bittersweet? Jon finally waking up to his enamor with Dany and taking it upon himself to end the madness - as a duty to the realm.

---

Yeah. And Jon has not had his moment really.

He wasn't at Blackwater or any of the battles south of the Neck.

He had some missions beyond the wall. But even hardhome where he killed a WW ended in full retreat.

He was bailed out in the BOB

He fought valiantly at WF but Arya got the moment.

I mean he was brought back for a reason. I hope.

---

Yeah it feels really weird that he's taken a somewhat significant backseat in the last 2-3 episodes... another reason this should have been more than 6 episodes