Another question and SIAP...did anyone else think for a split second Grey Worm was about to turn around and engage Jon in combat?

Or think that Tyrion was going to be down there and kill Cersei in front of Jamie? I was hoping so, bc he sent them there.

aTmAg said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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aTmAg said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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aTmAg said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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aTmAg said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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bobinator said:

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This 'rule by fear' thing is the lazy bit.

She could have ruled by fear by simply melting the red keep for everyone to see. Or taking the city and then killing everyone wearing Lannister armor.

But instead she goes all the way to 'I need to kill everyone in this city' which again to me is just lazy. They laid such complicated groundwork for this character, and then at the end she goes completely off the deep end for no particular reason.

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No particular reason? The reasonings are 8 seasons in the making.

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No they aren't.

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These people have benefitted off the power her ancestors amassed centuries ago after they betrayed them. They murdered her entire family and have tried to kill her since the moment she left Westeros using this power that was stolen from her. She lost all her friends along the way, had sacrificed two of her "children," for this cause, and right at the end it turns out that even her central belief that it was her destiny by right to take the throne was a lie due to Jon.

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Please. They? The civilians didn't murder her entire family. They didn't kill all her friends and her "children". They didn't make her brother bang Jon's mom. None of this comes close to explain why she'd burn a million civilians after the battle is won.

GRRM may have better explained it (in books or his mind), but the show sure as hell didn't.

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She talks about it at Winterfell when she sees Jon getting all the love for riding her dragons. She feels ostracized and separated from the people, even though they would have all died without her. And they don't giver her any credit for it.

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And so she kills a million civilians, that had nothing to do with any of that, after the battle is won?

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Yes. She explains it to Jon. She people to be obedient to her out of love. After Jon denied her advances, she chose fear. Destroying the red keep gets rid of Cersei, but it doesn't stop revolts happening by troops and houses still loyal to her.

Her burning Utica to the ground ensures that everyone is afraid of her and what she can and will do. Similar to the Tarly's, but on a much bigger scale.

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Pffft. Up until now, Dany has been pretty smart (way smarter than Jon Snow). You don't waste a million people because they "might" rebel. You take out Cersei, her army, her castle, etc. And THEN if the civilians start a revolt you roast them. If you can wipe out armies in 20 minutes, you can easily wipe out civilians if the need arises.

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Tell that to Harry Truman. Some times you need a little shock and awe.

dlance said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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GRRM officially and clearly refuted the rumor about him already having the books finished and sitting on them. He said he hasn't even started on book 7 yet (as book 6 is still incomplete).

Source: http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/13/idiocy-on-the-internet/

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Sad again

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M.C. Swag said:

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GRRM officially and clearly refuted the rumor about him already having the books finished and sitting on them. He said he hasn't even started on book 7 yet (as book 6 is still incomplete).

Source: http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/13/idiocy-on-the-internet/

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So now I will go back to just believing that he will die before he finishes.

The dude works SO slow....I get that you can't rush art and masterpieces and yada yada....but there are still some expectations. Even other writers have given him **** for it.

Especially since he has no problem working on some many other projects. He says he would be delighted if they were finished...well, dude. ****ing finish them already!!

bobinator said:

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I don't mind so much what they've done with Tyrion. He continually suggests paths that seem 'right,' and then he's wrong for various reasons.

He's like the oppo-Littlefinger. He continually underestimates how extreme people will be and tends to assume everyone else will think logically.

His suggestions always have perfectly well thought out logic, and because of that they often end up wrong.

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I can identify with Tyrion... it's like me expecting my wife to act logically. Gets me every time.

well.... they did it again. At least he isn't holding a coffee cup

I waited 10 years for Cersei to die to construction?!

I think for a lot of people this comes down to why you like this show. Not necessarily saying this is the case for everyone because this is obviously anecdotal.

But the friends of mine that hated it are the ones that like discussing the 'shades of grey' of whether characters are good/evil/etc.

So I think for us, I'm including myself in this group, the fact that her final step seem so extreme after all of the ones leading up to it were so subtle just rings a little hollow. She took seven seasons of little steps towards (perhaps) becoming a tyrant, but had never actually crossed the line. Her punishments were extreme, but those people still had to be punished, but she didn't kill any truly innocent people.

So at the end you have this chance for a really tragic moment where she finally takes that one step too far, and it would have been great to see the character make that fateful decision (and then another and another as they descend into madness.) But instead it wasn't one step, she went full Leroy Jenkins on genocide.

But, I have other friends that are usually just more into the action and the plot stuff. They don't really care about the characters in the same way as much as they care about how they serve the plot. They're mostly like 'it was inevitable anyway, so how it happened doesn't concern me much' that loved it. For a Star Wars reference, they weren't there for Anakin's whiny crap, they were ready to see Darth Vader wreck some stuff.

Which I kind of get also. Obviously those are some broad strokes just from my friend group, but thought it was interesting.

Batzarro said:

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hated episode 5, will not watch finale. I know what they're going to do to Khaleesi and it's terrible character assassination. To quote someone from reddit/freefolk, now whenever I walk by a dumpster fire I can say "oh look, bittersweet."

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Yes you will

ZJS - I don't even get mentioned?? Ok. I liked it well enough. Based on previous seasons/episodes, they could have done better. I've said this before, but they could have changed a few minor things and eliminated 60% or more of the negative feelings but still done what they wanted.

Reading these posts, it is obvious that the time between episodes helps people feel like it is not rushed. So, take the exact same screen time and make this a 10 episode season, and most people wouldn't think it was rushed.

It didn't feel rushed that all of the bodies and funeral fires were ready so quickly? That would have taken days to organize. And then a feast after??? Between episodes it makes sense.

If they would have ended the episode with Danny's armies getting prepared for the battle........we would have thought she wasn't eating for weeks........that adds to her being crazy.

Storyline isn't the problem, it's good. It's allowimg the audience to digest and make transitions that is missing this season. The run time is the same. 10 episodes would have helped with the same runtime.

Overall - liked

Batzarro said:

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hated episode 5, will not watch finale.

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And Walder Frey puts on one hell of a wedding reception

pete_claw98 said:

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ZJS - I don't even get mentioned?? Ok. I liked it well enough. Based on previous seasons/episodes, they could have done better. I've said this before, but they could have changed a few minor things and eliminated 60% or more of the negative feelings but still done what they wanted.

Reading these posts, it is obvious that the time between episodes helps people feel like it is not rushed. So, take the exact same screen time and make this a 10 episode season, and most people wouldn't think it was rushed.

It didn't feel rushed that all of the bodies and funeral fires were ready so quickly? That would have taken days to organize. And then a feast after??? Between episodes it makes sense.

If they would have ended the episode with Danny's armies getting prepared for the battle........we would have thought she wasn't eating for weeks........that adds to her being crazy.

Storyline isn't the problem, it's good. It's allowimg the audience to digest and make transitions that is missing this season. The run time is the same. 10 episodes would have helped with the same runtime.

Overall - liked

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10 episodes would have been much better. Add time for some of the dialogue that made the show amazing in the first place instead of focusing on blowing us away with battle scenes only. The battle scene stuff was awesome but I don't get why all the focus was put on that and we don't even see Jon tell Arya and Sansa about his parents.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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tv1113 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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CapCityAg89 said:

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Interesting we were posting very similar thoughts at the exact same time.

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It seems all the complainers just want it wrapped up however they planned it out to be wrapped up. I am so happy that I have been at least 50% wrong on how it would end.

Flawless? hell no.

Entertaining and intriguing as F? Yep.

Sad to see it will be over soon.

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I keep seeing this argument that we hated it because we wanted it to be a certain way. I had no preconceived notions about what was going to happen and I wasn't an avid book reader that was fully into the prophecies and trying to interpret the hints in the books.

It just flat out didn't make sense.

Do I believe she is capable of destruction? Yes, but not like that.

Here is a simple fix that I would have found to be so much more believable:

- Cersei packs the red keep full of innocent people to put between her and Daenerys
- Cersei won't stand down and surrender the red keep, in her last bold move instead of crying in a basement she is going to make Daenarys become the villain in order to destroy her she will have to level the red keep and destroy thousands.

Will Daenarys still be the villain? Yes. Would it be believable that she would sacrifice thousands as collateral damage for her hatred of Cersei? Yes.

Her random rampage and killing spree had no motive, no reasoning, and was just flat out terrible writing.

Even Cersei who is one of the most evil and sadistic characters never did something on this level. She killed thousands of innocents but it was always as collateral damage in order to achieve a goal. There was motivation, there was reasoning.

They never set up Daenarys to be this fragile borderline mentally unstable person, it happened with very little background. She is merciless to her enemies and I would expect her to slaughter innocents who get in the way but not just nuke the entire city in a mad craze.

So many simple more believable alternatives could have existed for her to go on a rampage. This was just lazy as hell writing.

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We get it. We've read this and other versions many times here already.

Could it be made better - so that even the detractors loved it - sure. But we didn't need it so you can't convince us it HAD to be that way - we bought the turn and felt the motivation for it and the building to it was all there already.

I've rarely seen any TV show that was perfect or certainly very few that ended perfectly - particularly long form arc shows. Heck I'm a detractor of certain things in both BB and Sopranos and yet they are my favorite shows of all time. GOT has always been top 5 and that hasn't changed. The Wire had a terrible final season (by comparison to S1-4) except the finale pretty much redeemed it. LOST was well....lost along the way at times and left so many loose ends out there.

And I'm not saying you guys are just expecting perfection - but the reality is it is impossible to please millions and millions of fans on a super popular show with so many expectations. Detractors are inevitable.

We aren't going to convince you either - it is what it is.

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This season isn't getting a good reception anywhere, not just this forum.

It certainly appears that they dropped the ball this season. They have one and a half hours left to pull off a hail Mary. If they don't manage that, then people will reference this show as an example of dropping the ball while crossing the goal line, similar to how many are discussing the last season of Lost on this thread.

When Lost's final season aired there were a ton of people saying they liked the ending and defending it on this forum, me included. You don't see that much now. Just like TLJ more recently. I fear GOT will be the same way.

Doesn't bother me too much, we still got several great years of tv, and I will continue to hold out hope the books are finished.

M.C. Swag said:

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GRRM officially and clearly refuted the rumor about him already having the books finished and sitting on them. He said he hasn't even started on book 7 yet (as book 6 is still incomplete).

Source: http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/13/idiocy-on-the-internet/

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A man has no pages

Eliminatus said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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GRRM officially and clearly refuted the rumor about him already having the books finished and sitting on them. He said he hasn't even started on book 7 yet (as book 6 is still incomplete).

Source: http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/13/idiocy-on-the-internet/

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So now I will go back to just believing that he will die before he finishes.

The dude works SO slow....I get that you can't rush art and masterpieces and yada yada....but there are still some expectations. Even other writers have given him **** for it.

Especially since he has no problem working on some many other projects. He says he would be delighted if they were finished...well, dude. ****ing finish them already!!

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Spoiler alert: GRRM doesn't give two damns about finishing ASOIAF. As has been repeated ad naseum, he himself probably has no clue how to write himself out of the corner he's backed himself into, and I'm sure he's perfectly happy cashing his gigantic checks and traveling around the world promoting his latest Wild Cards turd.

gigemJTH12 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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GRRM officially and clearly refuted the rumor about him already having the books finished and sitting on them. He said he hasn't even started on book 7 yet (as book 6 is still incomplete).

Source: http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/13/idiocy-on-the-internet/

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A man has no pages

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What do we say to the publishers page quota?

"Not today" - GRRM

I think my co-worker said it best when folks at work kept complaining about season 8.

"If you don't like it, go read some fanfiction."

I'm coming around to loving this episode more and more.

I think Dany's turn should've been handled clearly as heriditary insanity. I think it would've been better to have her hear voices throughout several seasons that the viewer didn't know if it was her going crazy or some kind of God or destiny talking to her, then when the bells toll the voices go crazya ND tell her to burn it all.

That would've fit in more with the insanity of the Targaryens and it would've made the audience very sympathetic to her, because here would be a wonderful person who was clearly overcome by a mental disease, but had so much power that she would be too dangerous to not deal with in some way. Adds more tragic element to the story.

NC2001 said:

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I think my co-worker said it best when folks at work kept complaining about season 8.

"If you don't like it, go read some fanfiction."

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With the exception of Dany's turn this season has been almost nothing but fan fiction.

Clegane bowl is the very definition of fan fiction.