I agree. It seems out of character for them to spend any time including those details.

M.C. Swag said:

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Chase said:

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dlance said:

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dlance said:

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Anyone seen this? Interview with Ian McElhinney (Barristan Selmy)...not show spoilers or anything FYI...

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Ian McElhinney claiming GRRM is done with books 6 and 7, the series is finished and he was waiting until the show is over.

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If he's as smart as I think he is, this is the way to go. Let the show do its show thing and once they stop paying you saying that you didn't think the ending was done well and certainly not what you would have chosen. Then release your own books that even haters will buy if for no other reason than to see the differences between them.

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I don't think it's true at all but IF it were; that'd be the most unforgivable thing that GRRM could do. The reason GoT the show is so popular is because his books were popular. It'd be a complete betrayal to his actual fans to stiff arm their patience and support for decades just to prop up D&D and HBO.

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That depends on when he finished them and him releasing both at the same time. He could have finished them in the last year, disappointed that the series was moving the way it was. He could have used what D&D have done to help him decide against things he was considering that were preventing him completing the story.

There are an infinite number of possibilities but he doesn't have to actually say he is doing this or make it obvious that both are complete at any given point. Personally, I think he did so much character development and the story was so complex that he has had a hard time deciding how he wanted to end it and, therefore, just didn't finish it. It is possible that going through what he did with D&D and then watching D&D do their thing has helped clear a lot of his thoughts up...who knows.

If he DID finish them, the smart thing to do is capitalize on the momentum, so he will release the first book within the year. The next one would drop in the following year or so.

aTmAg said:

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bonfarr said:

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You remind me of Comic Book guy arguing with Bill Shatner at a Comic Con on an episode of the Simpsons I watched.

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You remind me of a guy who defends Saved By the Bell like it's a masterpiece.

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Hold on their chief, don't you dare dis sbtb

Lmao the chick crucified a **** ton of people without any sort of process (aristocrat slaver? On the cross with you!) and some of y'all be Pikachu-faced at this heel turn

Think the books did a better job of showing her mad side but there's a difference that comes with internal monologue abilities on paper as opposed through the TV medium

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Quote:

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6. Perfect example of what I am talking about with the catering to fandom is the Clegane bowl. I have little doubt that the entire scene was nothing but fan service. Yeah, it is cool and all, but it just really kind of *******izes the story. Why did the Hound decide right then that he had to end his brother?

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Because his brother held his face up to a fire like it was a nice juicy mutton chop. They nearly fought to the death in Season 1 until Robert stopped them.

There's plently of legit criticisms, but the deep hatred/animosity between the Clegane brothers has been set up since day 1.

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For seven seasons he didn't set out to go find his brother and fight him. I understand why he hates him, that's obvious, what I don't understand what spurred him at this moment to go seek him out and fight him, even though it likely meant he would die. What has changed now that wasn't there in seasons 1-7, other than the Hound is actually probably more sane and rational than he was six seasons ago, and therefore probably less likely to commit suicide trying to get revenge over something that happened decades before?

dahouse said:

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Why did Varys remove his rings when he was arrested?

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It was like it was modeled after Lefty in Donnie Brasco.

He knew he was about to get whacked and took off the good jewelry so it wasn't lost with him.

bangobango said:

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aTmAg said:

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bonfarr said:

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You remind me of Comic Book guy arguing with Bill Shatner at a Comic Con on an episode of the Simpsons I watched.

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You remind me of a guy who defends Saved By the Bell like it's a masterpiece.

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That was you two weeks ago, bud.

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I was wrong. Forgive me.



(I still stand by Arya killing the NK)

I've seen several people call Dany genocidal. Don't think that's the case at all or we would have see her destroying her way down to KL. She's totally homicidal and the gerbil has fallen off the wheel but I don't think she's out to kill every single person other wise the ending shot will be her just sitting on the throne surrounded by ruin and ash with drogon circling above.

I thought they would go by medieval rules and pre-Geneva convention where if you had to storm a city or castle by force then it was fair game for loot, rape, pillage and destruction. Guess I wasn't wrong on that's account. I was thrown off when the Lannister's were surrendering and thought they would peacefully mop up and then wait out Cersei or storm the red keep. Wasn't ready for the mass murder.

canadiaggie said:

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Think the books did a better job of showing her mad side but there's a difference that comes with internal monologue abilities on paper as opposed through the TV medium

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Books also included things like her burning a merchant to death that may or may not have been innocent.

Also has her marrying that guy in Mereen basically to be his sex toy, even though she's still f-ing Daario.

Also, Daario in books is a sorry SOB, so her attraction to him makes her look really bad and questions her sanity.

Other things in book makes her not so black and white like the show made her.

Didn't like Cersei's death. Would rather her not die at all than go out like that. I think the following would have worked better for me:

Jaime gets into the Red Keep without meeting Euron. Jaime helps Cersei realize it's all over and the only thing left to do is survive as Tyrion said. Jaime and Cersei make it to the shore where they come across Euron staring off at the sinking Iron Fleet. Euron talks **** to Jaime, Jaime tells him it's over and to go home. They fight. Euron stabs Jaime. Euron gloats that he killed Jaime Lannister. Cersei stabs Euron in the back. Jaime and Cersei have they're final words as he dies in Cersei's arms (like Joffrey). Cersei realizes she's brought this upon herself and she's the reason Jaime is dead and her empire has crumbled. She's left all alone in this world. She grabs the dagger she just used on Euron and contemplates taking her life, runs her hand across her belly, drops the knife and gets in the boat and starts rowing. Episode cuts to black.

The Dog Lord said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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aTmAg said:

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To all these people claiming that Dany's actions were obvious and foretold in 8 seasons of the show...


Link your (unedited) post where you predicted that Dany would waste the entire civilian population of KL.

(Spoiler guy does not count)

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Not a prediction but an argument against your idea that she could have just killed Cersei and ended it. Or realy whether that was in her nature.

You mentioned the previous actions I've detailed repeatedly are not indicative of someone hell bent on killing people unnecessarily.

But let's revisit one of those. Meereen. Not crazy admittedly, she was under attack. But..... she goes out to meet the masters and she is there with her advisers telling them to surrender. They don't. Drogon flies in. Now she could have simply executed those leaders right there with Drogon. Game over. Just like what you wanted her to do instead to Cersei.

And had she shown that to all of the Harpy's and the combatants in the bay - they would surely have also laid down their weapons and surrendered and she could have likely saved all of the fleet that she burned - not knowing Yara was coming with more ships at the time THAT would have been WISE.

But she did not do that, instead what did she do?????... she left them standing there while she rode Drogon down freed the other dragons and torched the ships and killed thousands unnecessarily. Only after did Grey Worm slit 2 of their throats and then for good measure the Dothraki rode in and slaughtered all of the Harpies.

You can't tell me she could not have avoided that entire thing by just killing the masters and showing her dragons.

This woman's nature was to destroy those that anger her - and all of KL and Westeros and the North and her advisors betrayals had angered her greatly and killed 2 of her children and 75% of her army.

It was a response in kind. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't necessary. But come on it was in her nature.

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She had already killed some masters and shown her dragons. They broke a truce and showed that they still didn't get the message. All bets were off at that point.

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No... she had left the city and was not seen for a long time. She was off with Drogon flying around in the Dothraki grass sea etc.

They attacked when she and her dragons were MIA.

But I do agree all bets were off - that's her demonstrating her nature. they didn't take heed repeatedly and she killed them all when she did not have to. Same thing here.

aTmAg said:

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bonfarr said:

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You remind me of Comic Book guy arguing with Bill Shatner at a Comic Con on an episode of the Simpsons I watched.

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You remind me of a guy who defends Saved By the Bell like it's a masterpiece.

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The difference is if I thought Saved by the Bell was trash I would just stop watching instead of trying to convince other people why they should hate it.

blindey said:

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I know I'm preaching to the choir with this post, but watching Season 8 really really really makes me wish they would have done S7 and 8 as full 10 episode seasons. They just needed the space.

Like others have mentioned, it would have given them the ability to have the battle of winterfell after Kings Landing.

But I've always heard that pure popularity and endless stardom have caused the budget for the show to go from high to absurd.

Curious to see how it ends next week. You could use my guess but I wouldn't -- because I'm an "always bet on the zombies" guy and I figured a few survivors would end up fleeing an overrun Westeros.

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Not sure why people think they should have been reversed. It wasn't until BoW that they realized that Cersei had stiffed them on sending men to fight the NK. Why would they have attacked KL when they still thought Cersei would be in on the fight against the NK. Maybe I missed something?

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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It was a response in kind. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't necessary. But come on it was in her nature.

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When has she ever killed innocent civilians before? Not sure how you can say that's "in her nature."

I wish they hadn't cut these last two seasons short. Could have used more development.

aTmAg said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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aTmAg said:

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To all these people claiming that Dany's actions were obvious and foretold in 8 seasons of the show...


Link your (unedited) post where you predicted that Dany would waste the entire civilian population of KL.

(Spoiler guy does not count)

---

Not a prediction but an argument against your idea that she could have just killed Cersei and ended it. Or realy whether that was in her nature.

You mentioned the previous actions I've detailed repeatedly are not indicative of someone hell bent on killing people unnecessarily.

But let's revisit one of those. Meereen. Not crazy admittedly, she was under attack. But..... she goes out to meet the masters and she is there with her advisers telling them to surrender. They don't. Drogon flies in. Now she could have simply executed those leaders right there with Drogon. Game over. Just like what you wanted her to do instead to Cersei.

And had she shown that to all of the Harpy's and the combatants in the bay - they would surely have also laid down their weapons and surrendered and she could have likely saved all of the fleet that she burned - not knowing Yara was coming with more ships at the time THAT would have been WISE.

But she did not do that, instead what did she do?????... she left them standing there while she rode Drogon down freed the other dragons and torched the ships and killed thousands unnecessarily. Only after did Grey Worm slit 2 of their throats and then for good measure the Dothraki rode in and slaughtered all of the Harpies.

You can't tell me she could not have avoided that entire thing by just killing the masters and showing her dragons.

This woman's nature was to destroy those that anger her - and all of KL and Westeros and the North and her advisors betrayals had angered her greatly and killed 2 of her children and 75% of her army.

It was a response in kind. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't necessary. But come on it was in her nature.

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Your way doesn't punish any of the people who join in and ally against her enemies. She would want everybody to think twice about joining an army against her. What she did made perfect sense. And is a far cry from wasting a million civilians after the battle was over.

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Same here - she wants them to think twice about evr crossing her. they don't love her so they will fear her.


By the way your wasting of a million civilians you keep repeating is WAAAYYY overblown.

She killed no more than maybe 25-50K tops in that city. Ok maybe 100K tops with the fires after, etc.

All of KL is not wiped out - those in the streets are and some buildings. 100's of thousands were safely inside somewhere.

bangobango said:

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canadiaggie said:

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Think the books did a better job of showing her mad side but there's a difference that comes with internal monologue abilities on paper as opposed through the TV medium

---

Books also included things like her burning a merchant to death that may or may not have been innocent.

Also has her marrying that guy in Mereen basically to be his sex toy, even though she's still f-ing Daario.

Also, Daario in books is a sorry SOB, so her attraction to him makes her look really bad and questions her sanity.

Other things in book makes her not so black and white like the show made her.

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Yeah I notice that a lot of defenders are book readers.

I think the fact that the books go into it more is a big reason they can see her going crazy when it comes off as random to us show-only viewers.

General reposti!

Joseph Parrish said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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It was a response in kind. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't necessary. But come on it was in her nature.

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When has she ever killed innocent civilians before? Not sure how you can say that's "in her nature."

I wish they hadn't cut these last two seasons short. Could have used more development.

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never said it was her nature to kill innocent civilians before .....but

when you edit and pick and choose what you reply to you purposefully leave out pertinent info. Like

Quote:

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This woman's nature was to destroy those that anger her - and all of KL and Westeros and the North and her advisors betrayals had angered her greatly and killed 2 of her children and 75% of her army.

It was a response in kind. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't necessary. But come on it was in her nature.

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in her mind all of KL, all of Westeros really, all of her advisors, etc..... all angered her.

i mean i specifically said what WAS in her nature.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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By the way your wasting of a million civilians you keep repeating is WAAAYYY overblown.

She killed no more than maybe 25-50K tops in that city. Ok maybe 100K tops with the fires after, etc.

All of KL is not wiped out - those in the streets are and some buildings. 100's of thousands were safely inside somewhere.

---

And you know this how? You're pulling numbers out of nowhere here.

Joseph Parrish said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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It was a response in kind. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't necessary. But come on it was in her nature.

---

When has she ever killed innocent civilians before? Not sure how you can say that's "in her nature."

I wish they hadn't cut these last two seasons short. Could have used more development.

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She murdered an equal number of slavers to the amount of slaves that were killed. You can argue that slavers deserve to die, but then you are also making the argument to kill the Dothraki and Jorah too.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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Joseph Parrish said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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It was a response in kind. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't necessary. But come on it was in her nature.

---

When has she ever killed innocent civilians before? Not sure how you can say that's "in her nature."

I wish they hadn't cut these last two seasons short. Could have used more development.

---

never said it was her nature to kill innocent civilians before .....but

when you edit and pick and choose what you reply to you purposefully leave out pertinent info. Like

Quote:

---

This woman's nature was to destroy those that anger her - and all of KL and Westeros and the North and her advisors betrayals had angered her greatly and killed 2 of her children and 75% of her army.

It was a response in kind. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't necessary. But come on it was in her nature.

---

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And the innocent civilians did what to anger her???

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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aTmAg said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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aTmAg said:

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To all these people claiming that Dany's actions were obvious and foretold in 8 seasons of the show...


Link your (unedited) post where you predicted that Dany would waste the entire civilian population of KL.

(Spoiler guy does not count)

---

Not a prediction but an argument against your idea that she could have just killed Cersei and ended it. Or realy whether that was in her nature.

You mentioned the previous actions I've detailed repeatedly are not indicative of someone hell bent on killing people unnecessarily.

But let's revisit one of those. Meereen. Not crazy admittedly, she was under attack. But..... she goes out to meet the masters and she is there with her advisers telling them to surrender. They don't. Drogon flies in. Now she could have simply executed those leaders right there with Drogon. Game over. Just like what you wanted her to do instead to Cersei.

And had she shown that to all of the Harpy's and the combatants in the bay - they would surely have also laid down their weapons and surrendered and she could have likely saved all of the fleet that she burned - not knowing Yara was coming with more ships at the time THAT would have been WISE.

But she did not do that, instead what did she do?????... she left them standing there while she rode Drogon down freed the other dragons and torched the ships and killed thousands unnecessarily. Only after did Grey Worm slit 2 of their throats and then for good measure the Dothraki rode in and slaughtered all of the Harpies.

You can't tell me she could not have avoided that entire thing by just killing the masters and showing her dragons.

This woman's nature was to destroy those that anger her - and all of KL and Westeros and the North and her advisors betrayals had angered her greatly and killed 2 of her children and 75% of her army.

It was a response in kind. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't necessary. But come on it was in her nature.

---

Your way doesn't punish any of the people who join in and ally against her enemies. She would want everybody to think twice about joining an army against her. What she did made perfect sense. And is a far cry from wasting a million civilians after the battle was over.

---

Same here - she wants them to think twice about evr crossing her. they don't love her so they will fear her.

---

Yeah, I think she was adopting the Genghis Khan strategy (him again). Treat your friends really well and treat your enemies really badly. Before the days of explosives and nukes, the strategy made a whole lot of sense.

Quote:

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By the way your wasting of a million civilians you keep repeating is WAAAYYY overblown.

She killed no more than maybe 25-50K tops in that city. Ok maybe 100K tops with the fires after, etc.

All of KL is not wiped out - those in the streets are and some buildings. 100's of thousands were safely inside somewhere.

---

I'll admit I'm getting lazy on that. Initially I was saying a "city of a million people" and then just abbreviated to "million people" because I don't feel like typing a lot.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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The Dog Lord said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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aTmAg said:

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To all these people claiming that Dany's actions were obvious and foretold in 8 seasons of the show...


Link your (unedited) post where you predicted that Dany would waste the entire civilian population of KL.

(Spoiler guy does not count)

---

Not a prediction but an argument against your idea that she could have just killed Cersei and ended it. Or realy whether that was in her nature.

You mentioned the previous actions I've detailed repeatedly are not indicative of someone hell bent on killing people unnecessarily.

But let's revisit one of those. Meereen. Not crazy admittedly, she was under attack. But..... she goes out to meet the masters and she is there with her advisers telling them to surrender. They don't. Drogon flies in. Now she could have simply executed those leaders right there with Drogon. Game over. Just like what you wanted her to do instead to Cersei.

And had she shown that to all of the Harpy's and the combatants in the bay - they would surely have also laid down their weapons and surrendered and she could have likely saved all of the fleet that she burned - not knowing Yara was coming with more ships at the time THAT would have been WISE.

But she did not do that, instead what did she do?????... she left them standing there while she rode Drogon down freed the other dragons and torched the ships and killed thousands unnecessarily. Only after did Grey Worm slit 2 of their throats and then for good measure the Dothraki rode in and slaughtered all of the Harpies.

You can't tell me she could not have avoided that entire thing by just killing the masters and showing her dragons.

This woman's nature was to destroy those that anger her - and all of KL and Westeros and the North and her advisors betrayals had angered her greatly and killed 2 of her children and 75% of her army.

It was a response in kind. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't necessary. But come on it was in her nature.

---

She had already killed some masters and shown her dragons. They broke a truce and showed that they still didn't get the message. All bets were off at that point.

---

No... she had left the city and was not seen for a long time. She was off with Drogon flying around in the Dothraki grass sea etc.

They attacked when she and her dragons were MIA.

But I do agree all bets were off - that's her demonstrating her nature. they didn't take heed repeatedly and she killed them all when she did not have to. Same thing here.

---

What I meant was that she had killed masters and had her dragons when she first took Meereen. They also knew what she did with adolescent Drogon in Astapor. Others saw what Drogon did in the pit. They even saw her kill an ally (Mossador) after he killed a Harpy prisoner that was going to be tried (which sidenote isn't the path a Mad Queen would take). They had more than enough demonstrations and still chose to attack.

Also, it's no where close to the same as killing civilians in KL. She burned an army/navy in Meereen.

Joseph Parrish said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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By the way your wasting of a million civilians you keep repeating is WAAAYYY overblown.

She killed no more than maybe 25-50K tops in that city. Ok maybe 100K tops with the fires after, etc.

All of KL is not wiped out - those in the streets are and some buildings. 100's of thousands were safely inside somewhere.

---

And you know this how? You're pulling numbers out of nowhere here.

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observation.

where are they pulling the 1 million from? you think everyone in that city died????

yet jon, grey worm, arya and a horse randomly in different places are the only 4 survivors?

it's gross exaggeration.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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Joseph Parrish said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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By the way your wasting of a million civilians you keep repeating is WAAAYYY overblown.

She killed no more than maybe 25-50K tops in that city. Ok maybe 100K tops with the fires after, etc.

All of KL is not wiped out - those in the streets are and some buildings. 100's of thousands were safely inside somewhere.

---

And you know this how? You're pulling numbers out of nowhere here.

---

observation.

where are they pulling the 1 million from? you think everyone in that city died????

yet jon, grey worm, arya and a horse randomly in different places are the only 4 survivors?

it's gross exaggeration.

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I'm not sure the point is important. Dany was trying to get them all. The fact that she missed some doesn't change that fact.