I'm sure I'm a minority on this one, but I don't see Dany as being crazy. I think of it more like the Romans' destruction of the Jewish temple, where the Centurians' anger at the populace was so great that after they took the city, they burnt the temple to the ground against Ceasar's wishes and basically put the whole populace to the sword. I think Dany never expected the bell to ring, and she already had her blood up from the fight. She let rage take her and continued the destruction. I think she was "mad" in the angry sense, not insane.
****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******
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This is a pretty good list.aTmAg said:Those are the hints people keep dropping. So what are the hints that I and all the people on your side of the argument, are missing?G Martin 87 said:Sorry, if you think those were the "only" hints, then you should actually *watch* the show. Better yet, *rewatch* the show, Because you definitely missed it the first time.aTmAg said:No. Just the expectation of a decent ending after several seasons of greatness.G Martin 87 said:It makes 100% sense. Every season has hinted that this was a possibility. Every single one. I can't figure out why you're so surprised by this. First stage of grief, perhaps?aTmAg said:My eyes are open. You are blindly defending the indefensible (writing wise).G Martin 87 said:Yes, the show absolutely did. Do the body count yourself. Every person Dany ever cared about either died or betrayed her. Every male advisor tried to get her to not give in to her worst impulses. Every female advisor encouraged her to do the opposite. Open your eyes.aTmAg said:Please. They? The civilians didn't murder her entire family. They didn't kill all her friends and her "children". They didn't make her brother bang Jon's mom. None of this comes close to explain why she'd burn a million civilians after the battle is won.Champ Bailey said:aTmAg said:No they aren't.Champ Bailey said:bobinator said:
This 'rule by fear' thing is the lazy bit.
She could have ruled by fear by simply melting the red keep for everyone to see. Or taking the city and then killing everyone wearing Lannister armor.
But instead she goes all the way to 'I need to kill everyone in this city' which again to me is just lazy. They laid such complicated groundwork for this character, and then at the end she goes completely off the deep end for no particular reason.
No particular reason? The reasonings are 8 seasons in the making.
These people have benefitted off the power her ancestors amassed centuries ago after they betrayed them. They murdered her entire family and have tried to kill her since the moment she left Westeros using this power that was stolen from her. She lost all her friends along the way, had sacrificed two of her "children," for this cause, and right at the end it turns out that even her central belief that it was her destiny by right to take the throne was a lie due to Jon.
GRRM may have better explained it (in books or his mind), but the show sure as hell didn't.
I can see her wasting the castle and Cersei's army without mercy. But for her to sit there, hear the bells ring, and then decide "nah I'm going to roast all these people who had nothing to do with it while letting Cersei hang out at her perch for a while" made ZERO sense.
The only "hints" are "her dad was crazy", the "coin flip", and BS like that. None of her actions hint that. Not burning the Tarlys, her would be assassins, etc.
https://ew.com/tv/2019/05/13/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen/
Hibberd's recap explores this very well, too.
https://ew.com/recap/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5/
I didn't read the books but I can still tell where the book material dropped off the last few seasons. The first six seasons were plotted better while the last two have had more of a big budget action movie feel. Massive spectacle but the plotting not as meticulous. I feel like these last 2 seasons would have worked better if they were released Netflix/binge style. The week to week discussions don't hold up quite as well because people can see the seams.
Having said that the show is still great, even if it is not quite as good as what preceded it. I also don't see why it is the producers "fault" here. If GRRM had finished his books then the writers/producers would have been able to lay out the plot lines better. Could they have done a better job of showing Dany break bad? Sure. Could they have killed more main characters in the battle of Winterfell? I suppose. Could the military tactics have been better this season? Yeah. Entertainment is subjective so if someone truly dislikes the show then they aren't wrong, but objectively the spectacle is unmatched in the history of television.
Having said that the show is still great, even if it is not quite as good as what preceded it. I also don't see why it is the producers "fault" here. If GRRM had finished his books then the writers/producers would have been able to lay out the plot lines better. Could they have done a better job of showing Dany break bad? Sure. Could they have killed more main characters in the battle of Winterfell? I suppose. Could the military tactics have been better this season? Yeah. Entertainment is subjective so if someone truly dislikes the show then they aren't wrong, but objectively the spectacle is unmatched in the history of television.
dahouse said:
Why did Varys remove his rings when he was arrested?
It's a homage to old school mafia rituals. Take your jewelry off before you get sent to die.
Kind of crazy that they only have 80 minutes to wrap it all up.
I'm thinking there's no way they'll be able to wrap up everyone's stories up nicely.
Major characters left to wrap up:
Dany
Jon
Tyrion
Sansa
Arya
Side characters:
Brienne
Davos
Greyworm
Bronn
Sam (Possibly already wrapped up)
Tormund (Same)
One thing I'd like to see (maybe a bit fanfiction-y) is for Davos to head to Storm's End to help Gendry rule the Stormlands.
I'm thinking there's no way they'll be able to wrap up everyone's stories up nicely.
Major characters left to wrap up:
Dany
Jon
Tyrion
Sansa
Arya
Side characters:
Brienne
Davos
Greyworm
Bronn
Sam (Possibly already wrapped up)
Tormund (Same)
One thing I'd like to see (maybe a bit fanfiction-y) is for Davos to head to Storm's End to help Gendry rule the Stormlands.
He was one of my favorite characters until that last interaction.Old Tom Morris said:
I think we need to be done with Bronn. The last interaction was awkward enough. I hope he isn't in the finale.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Aren't you the spoiler?Good Aggie Hunting said:dahouse said:
Why did Varys remove his rings when he was arrested?
It's a homage to old school mafia rituals. Take your jewelry off before you get sent to die.
You're right, there is no way to wrap all of this up nicely. It will be underwhelming, as GOT has been for two seasons.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Kind of crazy that they only have 80 minutes to wrap it all up.
I'm thinking there's no way they'll be able to wrap up everyone's stories up nicely.
Major characters left to wrap up:
Dany
Jon
Tyrion
Sansa
Arya
Side characters:
Brienne
Davos
Greyworm
Bronn
Sam (Possibly already wrapped up)
Tormund (Same)
One thing I'd like to see (maybe a bit fanfiction-y) is for Davos to head to Storm's End to help Gendry rule the Stormlands.
Same. Bronn just kind of outlived his usefulness. I thought that was very much a "went back to the well one too many times" issue.
Ditch both his scene with Cersei and his scene with the brothers and use that time elsewhere. Not only was it awkward, but it makes Jaime's return even more confusing.
Ditch both his scene with Cersei and his scene with the brothers and use that time elsewhere. Not only was it awkward, but it makes Jaime's return even more confusing.
Imagine the anticipation we would have if the Battle of Winterfell was still to come. You don't have the Super Bowl in Week 3.
Nah, CLEGANEBOWLTPS_Report said:
Imagine the anticipation we would have if the Battle of Winterfell was still to come. You don't have the Super Bowl in Week 3.
The Texans do. They beat a contender Week 3 and think they're battle-tested. Then go 7-9.TPS_Report said:
Imagine the anticipation we would have if the Battle of Winterfell was still to come. You don't have the Super Bowl in Week 3.
Bronn was a fan favorite. only reason they shoehorned him in at all. but, it didn't work.Old Tom Morris said:
Same. Bronn just kind of outlived his usefulness. I thought that was very much a "went back to the well one too many times" issue.
Ditch both his scene with Cersei and his scene with the brothers and use that time elsewhere. Not only was it awkward, but it makes Jaime's return even more confusing.
This is what makes it great. Rational people know this isn't the answer. Dany isn't rational in this moment - she's got spite, bloodlust, Targaryen genes, the illusion of destiny, and the ultimate revenge/avenge motivation - and she snaps.bobinator said:I don't get how you watch this show and are okay with this. This show spent YEARS building up these complicated characters, imperfect heroes, imperfect villains, etc, etc.gambochaman said:
i think she had made up her mind to **ck **it up before the battle even started...it was evident ALL ALONG. what more reasons did you want them to give you? She realized she was alone...that someone else had a better claim to the throne...that even her trusted advisors had betrayed her...that yet another man she loved had spurned her...she even SAYS IT...'FEAR IT IS THEN'
waiting for the bells to ring was the ultimate EFF YOU...it was not what drove her mad...she was already there...it was to drive home her fury...wait until the city surrenders, then torch it anyway
it was perfect, and brutal, and genius, and awesome
And now, at the very end, one of the central characters just goes ALL THE WAY off the deep end. Not only killing innocent people, but doing it out of spite?
That's not ruling out of fear, that's just killing everybody.
Anakin Skywalker's turn to the dark side was better written.
It's not what a rational person would do - she had already won, it was just a matter of time and sorting out the aftermath of the battle. But she wasn't rational or sane then - she snapped.
Why does a kid shoot up a school? Why does a terrorist blow up a church in a suicide bombing? Why does anyone commit hot-blooded murder? They snap.
Teddy Perkins said:
Thoughts from Emilia, the writers, and producer about Dany's decision to burn it down in that moment.
That video is badass...... kept going after that part.
the making of the Clegane bowl was intense. Rory was really getting his ass kicked. No stuntman there.
M.C. Swag said:Aren't you the spoiler?Good Aggie Hunting said:dahouse said:
Why did Varys remove his rings when he was arrested?
It's a homage to old school mafia rituals. Take your jewelry off before you get sent to die.
If he's as smart as I think he is, this is the way to go. Let the show do its show thing and once they stop paying you saying that you didn't think the ending was done well and certainly not what you would have chosen. Then release your own books that even haters will buy if for no other reason than to see the differences between them.dlance said:Ian McElhinney claiming GRRM is done with books 6 and 7, the series is finished and he was waiting until the show is over.dlance said:
Anyone seen this? Interview with Ian McElhinney (Barristan Selmy)...not show spoilers or anything FYI...
Spoiler guy.
Jaime was on his way to fight Cersei until Tyrion talked him into running away with her.
Tyrion turned him back to "love of family".
Agree, I would rather have been pissed that Bronn wasn't in the last few episodes than what his character did.
Will Jon send Davos to Gendry because he knows Dany is crazy?
Tyrion turned him back to "love of family".
Agree, I would rather have been pissed that Bronn wasn't in the last few episodes than what his character did.
Will Jon send Davos to Gendry because he knows Dany is crazy?
poorly.MaroonStain said:The Dog Lord said:
D&D just said on the Inside the Episode that she hadn't decided to do this until sitting there and seeing the Red Keep. Then she decided to make it personal. Okay...
They are full of caca de merde.
GRRM built the foundation, walls and put the roof up.
Those two picked out the curtains.
...and I'm not someone that has been on here complaining.
These guys are like the person you hire after the good employee that built the foundation of a department leaves for greener pastures. They can keep things going, sure, but the vision isn't there and they're kinda coasting.
MuckRaker96 said:
Despite the mass suicides I've read about from TexAgs people not being able to handle a TV show playing out different than the version in their heads, last night was dynamite for the players of Game of Game of Thrones.
First off, give a dilly dilly to both Walton Loads and Geoff H. for going 8-for-8 on character deaths (assuming we count the Mountain dead, which we - me - are).
Second, Geoff H. and SpreadSheetAg had forged a three-way tie for first with AgSquirrel97 at 102 points apiece. Meanings it's possible the end of Game of Game of Thrones might be more interesting than the end of Game of Thrones.
Third, major shoutout to Coach RTM, who had more points last night (41) then he had the entire rest of the season (35).
Deaths: Varys, Cersei, Jamie, Sandor, Gregor, Euron, Qyburn, Harry
Clegane Bowl happens (+10)
Red Keep destroyed (+10)
Cersei killed by dragon damage (nobody picked it right, Valonqar my ass!)
1) AgSquirrel97 102
Spreadsheet Ag 102 (now Episode IV, btw)
Geoff H. 102
4) Sam S 95
5) Texas Aggie '99 93
6) Walton Loads 88
7) oldag00 85
8) wangus12 82
9) Urban Ag 76
Derek J. 76
Coach RTM 76
12) TxRunner97 73
Brian Earl Spilner 73
Saint Arnold 73
15) Rex Racer 71
16) Myles Moore 67
17) ChipolteMonger 63
18) Andy W. 59
Muckraker96 59
Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess
I am not friends with people that want to tare down the Republic.
Everybody needs to look. The game has eaten everyone that was playing it. The only ones left are those that were never invited to play, or are brand new to it, or wanted nothing to do with it.Zombie Jon Snow said:
Loving this......
dead from those who ruled or led major houses:ViserysNedDrogoRenlyRobbCatelynJoffreyLyssaTywinJonbut not JonMyrcellaStannisBalonRooseKhalsRamsayMargaeryMaceTommenWalderDoranOlennaNight KingRhaegalJamie and Cersei
dead sidekicks:OberynTalisaYgritteJojenOshaPycelleLorasHigh SparrowLancelEllariaSand sistersViserionLittlefingerTheonJorahMelisandreRhaegalMissandeiVarysQyburnthe HoundThe MountainEuron
who is left?
Jon
Dany
Tyrion
Sansa
Arya
--------------
Gendry
Brienne
Pod
Davos
Tormund
Bronn
and more remotely - Yara, Daario, Robyn
The herd has been thinned.
Gendry - new to it and too dumb for it
Sansa - jumped right in this season. She will fry
Arya - no part if it. Just revenge
Jon - doesnt want it, but he is a foolish tool of the game
Davos - never really invited, doesnt really want it
Bronn, never invited, till he just invited himself
Tormund saw the game and said no thanks
Sam too
Brienne - a foolish loyal jon without the title or leadership
Tyrion - dipped his toe in the game, will probably fry for it.
Aaand danarys, who hates the game more than anyone and wants to break it forever.
So for the end, the question is, does the game win right now? Someone without dragons gets the throne, and within days, months, or years it will start all over with new players..... , or does someone break it for the foreseeable future? That would probably take a dragon. (Note that everyone acknowledges that the best, prosperous, peaceful period, without 'the game' being played, came after the last dragon burning of a city).
Or do we get some smarmy happy ending where foolish jon or someone gets the throne and they pretend it will last?
Agreed. It almost feels like if they'd dropped the NK storyline (but still had WW north of the wall) I'd be more satisfied. Just play it out as the war for the Iron ThronegigemJTH12 said:
One thing I keep thinking about today. The battle of Winterfell seems so damn foreign when thinking about last night. Like it's hard to even remember caring about that, and it was only two weeks ago. With Dany going mad and the extreme of last night, only two weeks later, just feels like two totally different worlds.
Never have before felt like two complete different
Shows just two weeks apart.
Thank you for your reply. I agree it does feel very rushed I'm not sure why they couldn't have extended the season a little more. I guess if I think about each character and their entire arc from the very first episodes they were in it probably is wrapping up OK but I can understand why as a season it feels rushed.
I think to when something is ending people actually kind of grieve in a weird way for it even though it's only a TV show. Many shows over the years that I've liked I thought had ****ty endings, Seinfeld being one of them. I thought I had the worst last episode but I realize Game of Thrones is a little more investment then Seinfeld.
I also think too sometimes when some of these characters don't have these big dramatic deaths we might feel cheated too. but that happens in real life sometimes larger than life figures sometimes go out with a whimper. Either way I'm gonna miss this show I have thoroughly enjoyed it having binged watched the first five seasons in 13 days to catch up a few years ago.
I think to when something is ending people actually kind of grieve in a weird way for it even though it's only a TV show. Many shows over the years that I've liked I thought had ****ty endings, Seinfeld being one of them. I thought I had the worst last episode but I realize Game of Thrones is a little more investment then Seinfeld.
I also think too sometimes when some of these characters don't have these big dramatic deaths we might feel cheated too. but that happens in real life sometimes larger than life figures sometimes go out with a whimper. Either way I'm gonna miss this show I have thoroughly enjoyed it having binged watched the first five seasons in 13 days to catch up a few years ago.
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/63821996/claganebowl.0.jpg)
This shot was so good.
*airhorn noises*
Dany alays had the best instncts of anyone around her. She was bold, took risks, and always won dramatically.OverSeas AG said:
A few things. Dany was always an idiot. People blame her advisors but she made the decisions. And time and again she has made bad ones.
The fact that D&D were offered a 10 episode season and decided to only do 6 tells you everything you needed to know about their mindset. They ran out of gas and couldn't finish the marathon. So yes it was not going to be all it could have been and they don't care.
I was worried that Cersai was going to win. At least that didn't happen.
As the show is wrapping up we are getting clarity on who is still standing and will emerge as Head of their Houses. Based on who is left after last night's eopisodes it looks to be this:
House Stark - Sansa Stark. Jon and Bran do not want.
House Barratheon - Gendry Barratheon
House Martell - Unnamed Prince of Dorne
House Arryn - Robin of Arryn
House Tarly - Samwell Tarly
House Tully - I am assuming Edmure finally got out of the Frey dungeon and gets Riverrun
House Lannister - If he survives EP 6 will Tyrion be Lord of Casterly Rock?
Bronn is Lord of Highgarden - Will he get his castle?
Who else am I missing? Who gets the Twins?
House Stark - Sansa Stark. Jon and Bran do not want.
House Barratheon - Gendry Barratheon
House Martell - Unnamed Prince of Dorne
House Arryn - Robin of Arryn
House Tarly - Samwell Tarly
House Tully - I am assuming Edmure finally got out of the Frey dungeon and gets Riverrun
House Lannister - If he survives EP 6 will Tyrion be Lord of Casterly Rock?
Bronn is Lord of Highgarden - Will he get his castle?
Who else am I missing? Who gets the Twins?
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
Bronn is gonna get executed for demanding a castle from her lol.CFTXAG10 said:What about a wild card? Bronn comes back and realizes Jaime is dead. His only shot at cashing in on Highgarden is keeping Tyrion alive since Dany is full mad queen. He kills her.Quote:
No way does she just leave. Jon, Tyrion & Grey Worm are all that are left of her "circle" with only Grey Worm agreeing with what she just did. All 3 of them are going to get a chance to talk to her. Could see it being Jon or Tyrion that strikes her down. Or Arya for that matter
aTmAg said:
No, we don't. NOTHING she did prior to hearing those bells was remotely crazy.
It would literally be like Indiana Jones deciding to use the Ark to take over the world at the end of Raiders. That level of stupidity.
If you didn't see the crazy bubbling in there for a few seasons and, especially, earlier this season, I hope you don't date redheads.
MuckRaker96 said:Everybody died on lost.Zombie Jon Snow said:
No show has ever killed more.
None of the characters ever even existed on St. Elsewhere
LOST - it doesn't total anywhere near the number killed here. Literally hundreds of named characters and thousands maybe millions of unnamed. LOST killed maybe 100 total named characters and maybe 100 more unnamed.
St. elsewhere - wow - not existing is not dying
Mountain raises his arms.Brian Earl Spilner said:
This shot was so good.
*airhorn noises*
This could make sense, but I really hope that Dany explains this as her reasoning in the last episode. Otherwise, it will remain as a WTF move when the battle was won. Also, I still think it was overkill. She had already proven her point to the extent that the Lannisters gave up.Champ Bailey said:bobinator said:I don't get how you watch this show and are okay with this. This show spent YEARS building up these complicated characters, imperfect heroes, imperfect villains, etc, etc.gambochaman said:
i think she had made up her mind to **ck **it up before the battle even started...it was evident ALL ALONG. what more reasons did you want them to give you? She realized she was alone...that someone else had a better claim to the throne...that even her trusted advisors had betrayed her...that yet another man she loved had spurned her...she even SAYS IT...'FEAR IT IS THEN'
waiting for the bells to ring was the ultimate EFF YOU...it was not what drove her mad...she was already there...it was to drive home her fury...wait until the city surrenders, then torch it anyway
it was perfect, and brutal, and genius, and awesome
And now, at the very end, one of the central characters just goes ALL THE WAY off the deep end. Not only killing innocent people, but doing it out of spite?
That's not ruling out of fear, that's just killing everybody.
Anakin Skywalker's turn to the dark side was better written.
She explained her reasonings to Tyrion and Jon, even if she didn't decide until she was there at the moment. She was put in a position where her claim to the throne was weakened by Jon telling Sansa. Jon wouldn't marry her, so the outcome of her having the fear of the common people and Jon their love was not going to happen.
All she had left was fear. She was never going to be accepted by them. This action shows she has the power to lay waste to an entire city and two armies essentially by herself. She mushroom stamped Westeros and then peed on the throne to mark her territory.
I think Sansa watches her mouth a little more carefully now.
She is literally the first person Tormund toasts during the celebration.Champ Bailey said:aTmAg said:Please. They? The civilians didn't murder her entire family. They didn't kill all her friends and her "children". They didn't make her brother bang Jon's mom. None of this comes close to explain why she'd burn a million civilians after the battle is won.Champ Bailey said:aTmAg said:No they aren't.Champ Bailey said:bobinator said:
This 'rule by fear' thing is the lazy bit.
She could have ruled by fear by simply melting the red keep for everyone to see. Or taking the city and then killing everyone wearing Lannister armor.
But instead she goes all the way to 'I need to kill everyone in this city' which again to me is just lazy. They laid such complicated groundwork for this character, and then at the end she goes completely off the deep end for no particular reason.
No particular reason? The reasonings are 8 seasons in the making.
These people have benefitted off the power her ancestors amassed centuries ago after they betrayed them. They murdered her entire family and have tried to kill her since the moment she left Westeros using this power that was stolen from her. She lost all her friends along the way, had sacrificed two of her "children," for this cause, and right at the end it turns out that even her central belief that it was her destiny by right to take the throne was a lie due to Jon.
GRRM may have better explained it (in books or his mind), but the show sure as hell didn't.
She talks about it at Winterfell when she sees Jon getting all the love for riding her dragons. She feels ostracized and separated from the people, even though they would have all died without her. And they don't giver her any credit for it.
She's a foreigner to the very land her ancestors created. She is burning it all down and starting from scratch.