A dwarf joke... you must be a eunuch.Brian Earl Spilner said:You mean half failure.Social Media Influencer said:
Tyrion has been a huge failure.
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Yeah, it's a little weird
Or just attack at night from max Drogon range, either hard and fast or short bursts and then evade.
Wipe out the scorpion nests and then melt the red keep while Cersei is hiding in it, leave the townsfolk alone.
Wipe out the scorpion nests and then melt the red keep while Cersei is hiding in it, leave the townsfolk alone.
How fortified is KL, really? If it weren't for the Iron Fleet, they could get to the shore and find some way into the city. Tyrion has to know of some tunnels.
Ever seen a white walker, a Night King, dragon fire, or for that matter, a dragon?TheCougarHunter said:aTmAg said:If they literally shot 3 arrows and hit 100% of them, then I'm right there with you.. that would be too lucky to take seriously. If they shot a bunch of arrows at once and 3 of them hit, then it's reasonable. I haven't had a chance to rewatch yet (watched Chernobyl last night), but the arrows were hard to see in flight. So I'm holding my criticism on that until I see it again.TheCougarHunter said:aTmAg said:
The "why didn't she see the fleet" complaint is also petty. Most people don't have 20/20 vision. I sure as hell don't. Without my glasses I would have never have seen them either.
The better question to ask is how could she ever see anything at all without goggles for this whole time.
So you're saying the fleet of ships may have been so far away you couldn't even see them, but they manage to shoot that far and hit a moving target?
I hope this is satire and it's gone over my head...
Ever shot a quickly moving target with a GUN at 100 yards? Now think about doing it at 1000 yards. With a crossbow. Without sights. From a moving ship.
Even if they shot 1000 arrows at it the chance of a hit is 1 in a million assuming those things were even capable of going that far.
Social Media Influencer said:
How fortified is KL, really? If it weren't for the Iron Fleet, they could get to the shore and find some way into the city. Tyrion has to know of some tunnels.
We've done this twice , once in Meereen? And casterly rock?
Dany should swing by the Citadel and have them make 10,000 flyers warning the people of KL that they must leave the city or risk fiery death. Drop them over the city from Drogon. Give it 24 hours. Then she can sleep well at night because, you know, hey I warned you.
I don't think Tyron is some generic "master of tunnels", he was only knowledgeable of the ones in Casterly Rock because he designed them (with his engineering degree that he got on the side or something).Social Media Influencer said:
How fortified is KL, really? If it weren't for the Iron Fleet, they could get to the shore and find some way into the city. Tyrion has to know of some tunnels.
Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess
I am not friends with people that want to tare down the Republic.
Maybe a role for the fire god and red princess?Marcus Aurelius said:
Some are claiming to hear 2 discrete dragon screeching sounds in the ep 5 preview as Euron looks up in shock.
I think its safe to say cersi knows all of kl's secrets and all of tyrions ***** tunnels.Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno said:Social Media Influencer said:
How fortified is KL, really? If it weren't for the Iron Fleet, they could get to the shore and find some way into the city. Tyrion has to know of some tunnels.
We've done this twice , once in Meereen? And casterly rock?
so, I'm not a therapist but I'm thinking there may be more here than just disliking a fictional character in a fantasy series.OverSeas AG said:
I hope Dany's dies... someone said her advisors have failed her and blah blah.
She has made it very clear she is her own person. Well she has made plenty of mistakes, including using up people she knew loved her. She is not a nice person and at this point only cares about getting the thrown.
Hope she dies...
I wasn't thinking about, just about him being in charge of the defense of KL when Stannis attacked.Quote:
I don't think Tyron is some generic "master of tunnels", he was only knowledgeable of the ones in Casterly Rock because he designed them (with his engineering degree that he got on the side or something).
I get this, they are definitely trying to set it up here at the end that she's going down the path of bloodlust.OverSeas AG said:
I hope Dany's dies... someone said her advisors have failed her and blah blah.
She has made it very clear she is her own person. Well she has made plenty of mistakes, including using up people she knew loved her. She is not a nice person and at this point only cares about getting the thrown.
Hope she dies...
I'm holding out hope. Personally I think it's poor story-telling to set something up very carefully and intricately over many years and then pull the rug at the last minute.
When you have such a crazed fandom behind a series people are going to figure out the direction you're taking it, just on the sheer volume of attempts and the time people spend understanding everything about the show.
But now it feels like they're shuffling the deck just for the sake of not doing what everyone expects. And we even get the rationalization of "well this is GoT it always does what you don't expect" but those moments occurred earlier for a reason. Dany's bloodlust, after being a cool customer and tough but fair all series, seems contrived.
WestAustinAg said:
Ever seen a white walker, a Night King, dragon fire, or for that matter, a dragon?
All of those are more believable than the hit rate of the scorpion at that distance and height.
WestAustinAg said:Ever seen a white walker, a Night King, dragon fire, or for that matter, a dragon?TheCougarHunter said:aTmAg said:If they literally shot 3 arrows and hit 100% of them, then I'm right there with you.. that would be too lucky to take seriously. If they shot a bunch of arrows at once and 3 of them hit, then it's reasonable. I haven't had a chance to rewatch yet (watched Chernobyl last night), but the arrows were hard to see in flight. So I'm holding my criticism on that until I see it again.TheCougarHunter said:aTmAg said:
The "why didn't she see the fleet" complaint is also petty. Most people don't have 20/20 vision. I sure as hell don't. Without my glasses I would have never have seen them either.
The better question to ask is how could she ever see anything at all without goggles for this whole time.
So you're saying the fleet of ships may have been so far away you couldn't even see them, but they manage to shoot that far and hit a moving target?
I hope this is satire and it's gone over my head...
Ever shot a quickly moving target with a GUN at 100 yards? Now think about doing it at 1000 yards. With a crossbow. Without sights. From a moving ship.
Even if they shot 1000 arrows at it the chance of a hit is 1 in a million assuming those things were even capable of going that far.
This argument was made a page or two ago and it was weak then as well. This being a fantasy setting doesn't mean that literally anything should be plausible. This is still based in an earth like world with rules and physics we are familiar with.
I agree with this. Granted, we assume that whatever main ending we get is from GRRM himself so hopefully it is somewhat satisfactory. We know D&D said they've taken a different path to reach the same ending and hopefully they don't completely **** it up.digital_ag said:I get this, they are definitely trying to set it up here at the end that she's going down the path of bloodlust.OverSeas AG said:
I hope Dany's dies... someone said her advisors have failed her and blah blah.
She has made it very clear she is her own person. Well she has made plenty of mistakes, including using up people she knew loved her. She is not a nice person and at this point only cares about getting the thrown.
Hope she dies...
I'm holding out hope. Personally I think it's poor story-telling to set something up very carefully and intricately over many years and then pull the rug at the last minute.
When you have such a crazed fandom behind a series people are going to figure out the direction you're taking it, just on the sheer volume of attempts and the time people spend understanding everything about the show.
But now it feels like they're shuffling the deck just for the sake of not doing what everyone expects. And we even get the rationalization of "well this is GoT it always does what you don't expect" but those moments occurred earlier for a reason. Dany's bloodlust, after being a cool customer and tough but fair all series, seems contrived.
This is weird. I mean you seem to be trying to put the writers into a box that they just won't be put into. They have clearly written her story arc in a way that shows she is going mad for power. 3 seconds after Arya saves the day she is berating Gendry for his unknown father's actions and she is back in Jon's room trying to threaten him into keeping her less substantial claim on the thrown a secret. She is mad.bearamedic99 said:
If Dany gets the Mad Queen label, that would be a failure on the writers part. She did a better job of keeping it together after Missi was killed than Jon did when Rickon got shafted. Poor Dany, she did things right when she killed the slavers and masters as a conquerer but as she tries for Westeros, her advisors keep failing her. She intends violent ends while trying less violent means per her advisors. She is running out of troops and dragons while her enemies strengthen.
It would be an awesome ending if Dany and Jon die while Cersei lives.
Why would anyone doubt this? Because they like her character or her looks? Come on.
And for those saying she's not like her dad...she is exactly like her dad. He killed those Starks because they questioned him. He didn't want to be usurped...so he was willing to kill them and the entire citadel.
Not another night episode please... I don't think I could bare to hear one more complaint from people who don't know how to adjust their TV brightness.digital_ag said:
Or just attack at night from max Drogon range, either hard and fast or short bursts and then evade.
Wipe out the scorpion nests and then melt the red keep while Cersei is hiding in it, leave the townsfolk alone.
Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess
I am not friends with people that want to tare down the Republic.
Danaris never did anything moronic like showing up inneffectively in front of a castle with a lame proposal everyone knows wont be accepted. Perhaps there is another trick up her sleeve.
Serious question - the crossbows ruined her primary advantage, but linchpin of her success was always turning the poor against the rulers. Thats how she conquered. Not the dragons. (They certainly helped)
Why didnt she (or did she? We just havent seen yet) use cersi's arrogance and infiltrate kl with poor spies/saboteurs/deliver a message to kl like she did before;
'I have conquered 3 cities. No one was slaughtered or raped. Everyone is better off except the corrupt rich and powerful, and those soldiers who failed to bend the knee. Your queen is evil and hates you, as your king before him. Rise up against them and prosper'
Cersi knows the banks. She knows the citys tunnels and secrets. She knows armies. She doesnt know her own people, other than as a mob she looks down upon.
Pretty good mission for onion knight and gendry, varys' spy network, and some 'poor people' from conquered cities to testify.
Serious question - the crossbows ruined her primary advantage, but linchpin of her success was always turning the poor against the rulers. Thats how she conquered. Not the dragons. (They certainly helped)
Why didnt she (or did she? We just havent seen yet) use cersi's arrogance and infiltrate kl with poor spies/saboteurs/deliver a message to kl like she did before;
'I have conquered 3 cities. No one was slaughtered or raped. Everyone is better off except the corrupt rich and powerful, and those soldiers who failed to bend the knee. Your queen is evil and hates you, as your king before him. Rise up against them and prosper'
Cersi knows the banks. She knows the citys tunnels and secrets. She knows armies. She doesnt know her own people, other than as a mob she looks down upon.
Pretty good mission for onion knight and gendry, varys' spy network, and some 'poor people' from conquered cities to testify.
Instead of flyers make them petitions to remove Cersei from office.Urban Ag said:
Dany should swing by the Citadel and have them make 10,000 flyers warning the people of KL that they must leave the city or risk fiery death. Drop them over the city from Drogon. Give it 24 hours. Then she can sleep well at night because, you know, hey I warned you.
Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess
I am not friends with people that want to tare down the Republic.
wangus12 said:I agree with this. Granted, we assume that whatever main ending we get is from GRRM himself so hopefully it is somewhat satisfactory. We know D&D said they've taken a different path to reach the same ending and hopefully they don't completely **** it up.digital_ag said:I get this, they are definitely trying to set it up here at the end that she's going down the path of bloodlust.OverSeas AG said:
I hope Dany's dies... someone said her advisors have failed her and blah blah.
She has made it very clear she is her own person. Well she has made plenty of mistakes, including using up people she knew loved her. She is not a nice person and at this point only cares about getting the thrown.
Hope she dies...
I'm holding out hope. Personally I think it's poor story-telling to set something up very carefully and intricately over many years and then pull the rug at the last minute.
When you have such a crazed fandom behind a series people are going to figure out the direction you're taking it, just on the sheer volume of attempts and the time people spend understanding everything about the show.
But now it feels like they're shuffling the deck just for the sake of not doing what everyone expects. And we even get the rationalization of "well this is GoT it always does what you don't expect" but those moments occurred earlier for a reason. Dany's bloodlust, after being a cool customer and tough but fair all series, seems contrived.
Except Martin has already said he's sad with the way they're ending it. I've linked the article twice now. He's been basically pushed out and they're making decisions based on what the producers want to see, not Martin.
I think they've made significant changes in the end from what he envisioned.
"Democracy is bad because it doesn't put experts in charge."aTmAg said:
In the modern age, monarchy is bashed because many kings have been terrible. But in some ways that system was better than democracy. When you have a person trained and practicing from age 5 on about how to be king, they are often good at it when they do get the chance. Dany has experience at rulling. Jon Snow merely has military experience (but he sorta sucks at it as has already been discussed).
Have you read the Hobbit? Don't. You'll hate it.Fenrir said:WestAustinAg said:Ever seen a white walker, a Night King, dragon fire, or for that matter, a dragon?TheCougarHunter said:aTmAg said:If they literally shot 3 arrows and hit 100% of them, then I'm right there with you.. that would be too lucky to take seriously. If they shot a bunch of arrows at once and 3 of them hit, then it's reasonable. I haven't had a chance to rewatch yet (watched Chernobyl last night), but the arrows were hard to see in flight. So I'm holding my criticism on that until I see it again.TheCougarHunter said:aTmAg said:
The "why didn't she see the fleet" complaint is also petty. Most people don't have 20/20 vision. I sure as hell don't. Without my glasses I would have never have seen them either.
The better question to ask is how could she ever see anything at all without goggles for this whole time.
So you're saying the fleet of ships may have been so far away you couldn't even see them, but they manage to shoot that far and hit a moving target?
I hope this is satire and it's gone over my head...
Ever shot a quickly moving target with a GUN at 100 yards? Now think about doing it at 1000 yards. With a crossbow. Without sights. From a moving ship.
Even if they shot 1000 arrows at it the chance of a hit is 1 in a million assuming those things were even capable of going that far.
This argument was made a page or two ago and it was weak then as well. This being a fantasy setting doesn't mean that literally anything should be plausible. This is still based in an earth like world with rules and physics we are familiar with.
Urban Ag said:
Dany should swing by the Citadel and have them make 10,000 flyers warning the people of KL that they must leave the city or risk fiery death. Drop them over the city from Drogon. Give it 24 hours. Then she can sleep well at night because, you know, hey I warned you.
Because common folk in the middle ages could read flyers?
The action scenes in the episode sucked, and have sucked, other than visuals that were impressive on-screen but didn't make sense plot-wise. The dialogue and scheming was much improved. If budget is the problem, they should resort once again to the old "knock Tyrion out mid-battle" trick. Used it last night to great effect. One might argue that the story would be substantially better with a SMALLER budget, because it would force them to go Hitchcock and do the heavy lifting off-screen and only show what happens around it.
I think the multiple instances that the Tyrion black-out has happened supports the theory that it is Tyrion's story to tell.
Uh, she made him a lord. Did you really consider that "berating"?WestAustinAg said:This is weird. I mean you seem to be trying to put the writers into a box that they just won't be put into. They have clearly written her story arc in a way that shows she is going mad for power. 3 seconds after Arya saves the day she is berating Gendry for his unknown father's actions she is berating Gendry for his unknown father's actions and she is back in Jon's room trying to threaten him into keeping her less substantial claim on the thrown a secret. She is mad.bearamedic99 said:
If Dany gets the Mad Queen label, that would be a failure on the writers part. She did a better job of keeping it together after Missi was killed than Jon did when Rickon got shafted. Poor Dany, she did things right when she killed the slavers and masters as a conquerer but as she tries for Westeros, her advisors keep failing her. She intends violent ends while trying less violent means per her advisors. She is running out of troops and dragons while her enemies strengthen.
It would be an awesome ending if Dany and Jon die while Cersei lives.
Why would anyone doubt this? Because they like her character or her looks? Come on.
And for those saying she's not like her dad...she is exactly like her dad. He killed those Starks because they questioned him. He didn't want to be usurped...so he was willing to kill them and the entire citadel.
And she didn't threaten Jon, she literally begged him.
fifyWestAustinAg said:"Democracy is bad because it very often put's dumbasses in charge."aTmAg said:
In the modern age, monarchy is bashed because many kings have been terrible. But in some ways that system was better than democracy. When you have a person trained and practicing from age 5 on about how to be king, they are often good at it when they do get the chance. Dany has experience at rulling. Jon Snow merely has military experience (but he sorta sucks at it as has already been discussed).
This feels like hopecasting...aTmAg said:
I think this show is planting seeds of "mad queen" in order to surprise us. They've done it before. Such as the seeds that Arya was going to kill Sansa at the behest of Littlefinger and then they suprise-kill him instead. They also planted the seeds of a Jon vs NK Rocky match, but Arya killed him instead.
I think Dany redeems herself in some way and either dies (and give the throne to Jon) or gains the throne in a way where she is universally accepted and liked.
Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess
I am not friends with people that want to tare down the Republic.
Especially when it is being ridden by Howland Reed and has a Direwolf in each claw (Ghost & Nymeria) that it is going to drop into the Red Keep.Quote:
Your eyes would get pretty big if you saw that flying at you with all those bolts sticking out.
You mean the religious group that became powerful enough to hold the Queen Mother in a dungeon, starve and torture her, then strip her naked and chop off her hair and march her through the streets as a form of sexual humiliation on the level of gang rape? That religious group?bobinator said:
You said there's nothing in the shows which suggest she's a genocidal maniac.
In that scene she wiped out an entire religious group, many of its followers, and half of the important people in the kingdom, including the queen and a bunch of innocent people.
It's literally an act of genocide. If she thought it's because that religious group was threatening here own security, well that's basically how every religious genocide starts.
She didn't "think" those people were threatening her security. She was completely 100% correct. That trial was the perfect honeypot to catch all her actual enemies in one place. The people in the Sept were all working as hard as they could to kill or disempower her and her family. That's not genocide, that's just a move in the game of thrones. And again, you're missing the two main points of my original post:
1) Even IF we accept the characterization of this as murderous corruption and power-hungry opportunism, how is it any different from most of the other crazy would-be rulers vying for control of the 7 kingdoms? Robert Baratheon? The Targaryens? The Tyrells have panache but assassination is comfortable for them as well.
2) Are we told that she goes and wipes out villages just because she thinks they're ugly? Does she work to eliminate all religious groups just because she's not a member? No.
Cersei fits in perfectly with the society that produced her. She's not an outlier. That's one of the main themes of the books. All the "Good Guys" we keep trying to empathize with, end up being just as lustful for the throne as the "Bad Guys", or they prove to be colossally stupid, which isn't something you want in a ruler either.
Judging Cersei as an insane genocidal psychopath is easy by the Social Justice metrics of comparing people to our enlightened Earth 21st century moral standards. But in a feudal system, people are merely extensions of their ruler, in whom is vested the power, that's what it means to be a royal subject. Cersei is actually pretty average in the history of Westeros.
Do we know if the dog can ride the dragon?
The show was always better when the battle sequences were done off screen. Think of season one and season two.. there are none besides the Blackwater. But they skipped through quite a few battles in favor of story development and it worked well.SWCBonfire said:Urban Ag said:
Dany should swing by the Citadel and have them make 10,000 flyers warning the people of KL that they must leave the city or risk fiery death. Drop them over the city from Drogon. Give it 24 hours. Then she can sleep well at night because, you know, hey I warned you.
Because common folk in the middle ages could read flyers?
The action scenes in the episode sucked, and have sucked, other than visuals that were impressive on-screen but didn't make sense plot-wise. The dialogue and scheming was much improved. If budget is the problem, they should resort once again to the old "knock Tyrion out mid-battle" trick. Used it last night to great effect. One might argue that the story would be substantially better with a SMALLER budget, because it would force them to go Hitchcock and do the heavy lifting off-screen and only show what happens around it.
I think the multiple instances that the Tyrion black-out has happened supports the theory that it is Tyrion's story to tell.
But yeah, I've never noticed how many times a scene has skipped forward after Tyrion loses consciousness.. Good catch and very interesting!
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