****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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bearamedic99
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If Dany gets the Mad Queen label, that would be a failure on the writers part. She did a better job of keeping it together after Missi was killed than Jon did when Rickon got shafted. Poor Dany, she did things right when she killed the slavers and masters as a conquerer but as she tries for Westeros, her advisors keep failing her. She intends violent ends while trying less violent means per her advisors. She is running out of troops and dragons while her enemies strengthen.

It would be an awesome ending if Dany and Jon die while Cersei lives.
bearamedic99
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Ditto
bonfarr
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M.C. Swag said:

Rhaegal took 2 spears to the chest and 1 through the neck. Then crashed into the ocean. Guys, he's as dead as a door nail.


How many swords did Snow take through the heart?
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
Marcus Aurelius
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Dany is doomed IMO. But so is Cersei.
n_touch
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jtstanley4621
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bonfarr said:

M.C. Swag said:

Rhaegal took 2 spears to the chest and 1 through the neck. Then crashed into the ocean. Guys, he's as dead as a door nail.


How many swords did Snow take through the heart?
Melisandre is dead. I don't think they have another Red Priest in the fold, and even then they would have to drag him out of the water, correct?
bangobango
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jtstanley4621 said:

Fair point. I guess I just mean like Dany getting super consumed with getting the throne at all costs, likely at the risk of innocent lives.

Her circle is shrinking and they're really hammering home her feeling isolated and powerless. Feels like she's going to take King's Landing with the unsullied and Drogon at any cost. Which I think is just a shame in terms of all the things we've been through with her character throughout the seasons.
Yeah, my wife cannot stand Dany, but I feel sorry for her at this point. She's lost so much of her inner circle, and two out of the three that are left are considering betraying her.

I thought this was appropriate:

bonfarr
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What happened to all those red priestesses in Meereen? Seems like they should have brought a few with them to Westeros.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
El Chupacabra
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jtstanley4621 said:

bonfarr said:

M.C. Swag said:

Rhaegal took 2 spears to the chest and 1 through the neck. Then crashed into the ocean. Guys, he's as dead as a door nail.


How many swords did Snow take through the heart?
Melisandre is dead. I don't think they have another Red Priest in the fold, and even then they would have to drag him out of the water, correct?
"What is dead may never die"
"But rises again harder and stronger."
CFTXAG10
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The more I think about E4 the more I cannot wait for Grey Worm to go scorched earth on Cersei's army. He might just live through the whole thing kicking a** and taking names, but if he dies it will be at the hands of a big character like The Mountain, or Euron. I am sure he wants a shot at Cersei for ordering the kill, but I don't think he will get that chance.
Zombie Jon Snow
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So...how bout some actual strategery......

those platforms with the dragon killer weapons are completely made of wood and vulnerable from the underside.

I'd use flaming arrows to light those on fire and try to take those out of commission.





Teddy Perkins
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Rhaegal is alive or coming back is this week's "the NK will head to King's Landing bypassing Winterfell"
wangus12
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Quote:

She did a better job of keeping it together after Missi was killed than Jon did when Rickon got shafted.
Not the same. Jon had a chance to save Rickon as he was running across the field. He wasn't reacting to an execution. If Rickon had zig-zagged, he'd be alive. There is absolutely nothing Dany can do in her situation but watch.
Urban Ag
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jtstanley4621 said:

Fair point. I guess I just mean like Dany getting super consumed with getting the throne at all costs, likely at the risk of innocent lives.

Her circle is shrinking and they're really hammering home her feeling isolated and powerless. Feels like she's going to take King's Landing with the unsullied and Drogon at any cost. Which I think is just a shame in terms of all the things we've been through with her character throughout the seasons.
Good take. I agree that it feels like it's building up to this.

Missanandie is gone. Jorah gone. Jon unwilling to agree to her every demand. Sansa openly against her. Tyion delicately challenging her. Varys (potentially) turning on her. Carefully shot scene that shows Dany observing the cliques form during the celebration, with no one really including her. Down to one dragon. Majority of her army destroyed. Everything she built is crashing down around her.

I think Ep5 is building up to be the crazy sh** one just as Emelia alluded to. And there won't be any sort of conventional wisdom type ending. I think we're going to see something of an ant-war statement in how this plays out. And I don't mean that in a political sense, more of a not willing to sacrifice the lives of the innocent for power, no matter how good intentioned you may be.

It is a grind though watching her massive army, the dragons, and her coalition, get dismantled. It just builds her frustration and rage. Rhaegal/Missy is the tipping point IMO.
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Social Media Influencer
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Tyrion has been a huge failure.
EFE
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I feel like if Rickon would have started zig zagging, Ramsey would have just had the rest of his archers send a volley and turn him into a pin cushion.
AggieFanatic09
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easiest thing would be to lay siege to KL.

Pick a few nights with a new moon and Dany makes a handful of passes in the dark to light up the scorpions.

That will instill fear... at any point fire from above. Blast em once then pull up and fly away...
Brian Earl Spilner
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Social Media Influencer said:

Tyrion has been a huge failure.
You mean half failure.
gigemJTH12
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Zombie Jon Snow said:


So...how bout some actual strategery......

those platforms with the dragon killer weapons are completely made of wood and vulnerable from the underside.

I'd use flaming arrows to light those on fire and try to take those out of commission.








Or just fly high as **** in the air with the dragon and come down right on top of them and torch them with dragon fire. That thing cannot shoot straight in the air.
mm98
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He is very good and advising, or influencing, to serve himself. He is not good at advising others.

At least that's my observation.
aTmAg
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If Dany goes full mad king then I'll be pissed. Killing the Tarly's during wartime doesn't make her mad and just because she wants the throne doesn't make her a tyrant in waiting. Robert didn't want it, and he sucked as king.

In the modern age, monarchy is bashed because many kings have been terrible. But in some ways that system was better than democracy. When you have a person trained and practicing from age 5 on about how to be king, they are often good at it when they do get the chance. Dany has experience at rulling. Jon Snow merely has military experience (but he sorta sucks at it as has already been discussed).
JJxvi
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Quote:

Or just fly high as **** in the air with the dragon and come down right on top of them and torch them with dragon fire. That thing cannot shoot straight in the air.
Would work with the ships all bunched together. Would not work with the way they are arranged on the wall. Coming straight down on top of one still leaves you in the line of fire from ones that are further down the wall to the left and right
FIDO95
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You realize that we are working with D&D Guide on Battle Tactics on this show, right?

On second thought, all the shots can be done at near black which can save on the CGI budget for things like Ghost.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Urban Ag said:

jtstanley4621 said:

Fair point. I guess I just mean like Dany getting super consumed with getting the throne at all costs, likely at the risk of innocent lives.

Her circle is shrinking and they're really hammering home her feeling isolated and powerless. Feels like she's going to take King's Landing with the unsullied and Drogon at any cost. Which I think is just a shame in terms of all the things we've been through with her character throughout the seasons.
Good take. I agree that it feels like it's building up to this.

Missanandie is gone. Jorah gone. Jon unwilling to agree to her every demand. Sansa openly against her. Tyion delicately challenging her. Varys (potentially) turning on her. Carefully shot scene that shows Dany observing the cliques form during the celebration, with no one really including her. Down to one dragon. Majority of her army destroyed. Everything she built is crashing down around her.

I think Ep5 is building up to be the crazy sh** one just as Emelia alluded to. And there won't be any sort of conventional wisdom type ending. I think we're going to see something of an ant-war statement in how this plays out. And I don't mean that in a political sense, more of a not willing to sacrifice the lives of the innocent for power, no matter how good intentioned you may be.

It is a grind though watching her massive army, the dragons, and her coalition, get dismantled. It just builds her frustration and rage. Rhaegal/Missy is the tipping point IMO.

every time Dany seemed really down and out and about to be destroyed

1. walked into a burning fire pit and walked out with 3 dragons

2. went into the house of the undying alone to rescue her dragons and burned the guy alive

3. Traded for the Unsullied and then Dracarys-ed the slave trader and then ordered the unsullied to kill the rest

4. Walked alone into the Khal temple and killed them all with fire and walked out

5. Under attack in an assassination attempt in the dragon pit she mounted the dragon, torched people and flew off.

6. Returned to Mereen amidst an assault and unleashed Drogon on the ships and slayed the masters and loosed the dothraki on the harpy's


In each of those cases she didn't listen to any advisers - particularly Tyrion or Jorah - and just unleashed her instincts. In the preview we see her standing alone at Dragonstone back to Tyrion..... probably planning something.

Considering she had a huge advantage when she came over from Westeros but listened to Tyrion and Jon and got 75% of her army and 2 of her dragons killed - I'm thinking she is done listening to others.

I'd be shocked if we didn't have a shocking twist of some epic proportions.


JJxvi
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The main problem with the ones on the wall is that the platforms dont appear to be big enough to shoot a target over the city, but Im sure we are supposed to assume 360 degree is possible, despite the fact that it looks to me like the operator would have to hang out over the wall to aim it backwards.
Social Media Influencer
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I wouldn't be surprised if Tyrion got roasted before it's over.
gigemJTH12
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What? No. That dragon can shoot fire pretty damn far. She could stay high enough where none of those things can angle up to her.
MuckRaker96
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sorry for wtl;dr

Since the death of Khal Drogo, pretty much everything Dany's done has been a success, or has led to a success.
Let's start with Dany at her peak, Ruling Mereen, worshipped by its people, breaker of chains, Has all 3 dragons

Immediate "family" - Jorah Mormont, Barristan Selmy, Missandei, Grey Worm, Daario Naharis - all loyal unto death for her and have been for years.
New advisers: Tyrion Lannister, Varys - both with extensive knowledge of Westeros and determined to help her retake the throne, but definitely not willing to die for her.

Descent to the Mad Queen
Incident #1 - Barristan Selmy killed by Sons of the Harpy thugs in an alley brawl. Loses her most true father figure.
Incident #2 - Sons of the Harpy attack the arena and slaughter hundreds, while she escapes on Drogon - citizens lose trust in her.
Incident #3 - She leave Essos behind to retake Westeros, leaving Daario Naharis behind - her lover and confidante who does not judge her at all, and provides easy comfort.
Incident #4 - Against the strong advice of her Hand, she burns the Tarly Lords when they won't bend the knee. Very akin to what her father preached instead of taking hostages.
Incident #5 - Viserion dies at the hands of the Night King. Her invincibility factor by dragon no longer exists, and she has lost 1/3rd of her children.
Incident #6 - She travels to Winterfell and finds not everyone wants to accept her as Queen or even like her. This is after she has collected the Unsullied, the Dothraki, and made alliances with Dorne, High Garden, the King of the North, and the Iron Islands who have all bent the knee to her.
Incident #7 - Jon Snow reveals he is really Aegon Targaryen. Instead of being her strongest ally and paramour, replacing Daario Naharis, she now doesn't know what to make of him, and fears he could be a rival for her claim.
Incident #8 - Jorah Mormont is killed by wights. Now she has no father figure at all. Tyrion Lannister and Varys might be shrewd, but they are poor replacements for Ser Jorah and Ser Barristan in terms of the support she has come to rely on.
Incident #9 - The Army of the Dead is defeated with very little help from her. Drogon can't kill the Night King and her two main armies are largely decimated. Two players younger than she is - Bran and Arya - combine to kill the Night King with one distracting him and the other ending him. Attention is lavished instead on Jon Snow / Aegon Targaryen, and even her advisers begin to question if he might be the right choice to sit the Throne.
Incident #10 - An ambush decimates her fleet, kills Rhaegal and sees Missandei taken hostage. She is outsmarted for a second time by Cersei/Euron and is down to one dragon now.
Incident #11 - She watches Missandei be executed by the Mountain. Her only female adviser is dead, and perhaps her only real friend as well. The death affects Grey Worm as it affects her. He no longer wants a life beyond the war. He has become vengeance, and will gladly go to his death if it means slaughtering the people who killed his love.

Dany is now alone with a military commander she knows is out for blood like she is, two advisers who are questioning whether she's fit to command, and a sort of boyfriend but also your nephew, who swears he doesn't want the crown, but whom she can't believe. And his great secret, once known only by her, him, Sam, and Bran, has now stretched to Sansa, Arya, Tyrion, and Varys, except she doesn't know that they know.

On the flip side, every one of her greatest successes has been born out of fire.
#1 The birth of the dragons
#2 Acquisition of the Unsullied/death of the slavers
#3 Escape from death at Vas Dothrak and having the Dothraki serve her without question
#4 Victory at the Battle of Slavers Bay with all three dragons unleashed

Fire could not beat the Night King, but it can surely burn Euron Greyjoy's fleet and destroy the Red Keep and Cersei with it. Her string of recent events will have her doubting every strategy but the one that her family is built on - winning the Iron Throne with fire and blood.

Marcus Aurelius
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Some are claiming to hear 2 discrete dragon screeching sounds in the ep 5 preview as Euron looks up in shock.
Urban Ag
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bonfarr said:

What happened to all those red priestesses in Meereen? Seems like they should have brought a few with them to Westeros.
Uh....hi. Hi everyone. My name's Howland Reed. Yep, some of you may remember me from that whole Tower of Joy thing. Right, that was me. Ned's buddy. Great guy. A little on the stiff side but you knew that. So first off, really sorry about missing that whole Battle of Winterfell thing. Wow. That looked bad. Heard all about it. Yikes. But ya know, Meera got a lot of teen drama going on and frankly, I really didn't want to be there. So uh, anyway, since I kind of blew it not contributing to the effort there I went ahead and got you one of these Red Priestess chicks from Essos. Actually I brought two because, well, I mean look at them. Damn, know what I'm sayin right? But also just in case one doesn't know what she's doing. So I'd get these ladies some swim trunks and you're back in business amiright? Great.

Oh, before I go.....this whole thing about Jon Snow. Yeah, I was in Dorne with Ned and all that. And yeah, she said Rhaegar was the daddy. But come on, these Stark girls, never know what to believe. I mean, Lyanna helped plunge the entire realm in to war cause she banging that guy behind Bobby's back. Honestly. It could have been some hedge knight and too much Abor Red. Who knows. I'd just go with whatever the chunky nerd and the kids in the wheelchair come up with. Roll with that. Ha, you get it? Roll with that? LOLS.

Oh and that reminds me. Yeah so Bran really is the Night King. Wow, who'd have thought it huh. It's complicated. But I'd keep an eye on that one. Allright then, gonna hit the pub. Cheers.
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redline248
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I will be pretty disappointed of Drogon doesn't get in some major revenge on the iron fleet.
OldShadeOfBlue
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gigemJTH12 said:

Well is Missandei didn't get her head chopped off the episode would have been a lot worse. I think everyone was pulling for them to actually go through with it.
Is it weird that I think it would have been more fitting to split her in half, shoulder to hip? I think we all saw where it was going but, to see the Mountain do what they said he's done in the past would have been a genuine Game of Thrones moment for me.
aTmAg
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

Urban Ag said:

jtstanley4621 said:

Fair point. I guess I just mean like Dany getting super consumed with getting the throne at all costs, likely at the risk of innocent lives.

Her circle is shrinking and they're really hammering home her feeling isolated and powerless. Feels like she's going to take King's Landing with the unsullied and Drogon at any cost. Which I think is just a shame in terms of all the things we've been through with her character throughout the seasons.
Good take. I agree that it feels like it's building up to this.

Missanandie is gone. Jorah gone. Jon unwilling to agree to her every demand. Sansa openly against her. Tyion delicately challenging her. Varys (potentially) turning on her. Carefully shot scene that shows Dany observing the cliques form during the celebration, with no one really including her. Down to one dragon. Majority of her army destroyed. Everything she built is crashing down around her.

I think Ep5 is building up to be the crazy sh** one just as Emelia alluded to. And there won't be any sort of conventional wisdom type ending. I think we're going to see something of an ant-war statement in how this plays out. And I don't mean that in a political sense, more of a not willing to sacrifice the lives of the innocent for power, no matter how good intentioned you may be.

It is a grind though watching her massive army, the dragons, and her coalition, get dismantled. It just builds her frustration and rage. Rhaegal/Missy is the tipping point IMO.

every time Dany seemed really down and out and about to be destroyed

1. walked into a burning fire pit and walked out with 3 dragons

2. went into the house of the undying alone to rescue her dragons and burned the guy alive

3. Traded for the Unsullied and then Dracarys-ed the slave trader and then ordered the unsullied to kill the rest

4. Walked alone into the Khal temple and killed them all with fire and walked out

5. Under attack in an assassination attempt in the dragon pit she mounted the dragon, torched people and flew off.

6. Returned to Mereen amidst an assault and unleashed Drogon on the ships and slayed the masters and loosed the dothraki on the harpy's


In each of those cases she didn't listen to any advisers - particularly Tyrion or Jorah - and just unleashed her instincts. In the preview we see her standing alone at Dragonstone back to Tyrion..... probably planning something.

Considering she had a huge advantage when she came over from Westeros but listened to Tyrion and Jon and got 75% of her army and 2 of her dragons killed - I'm thinking she is done listening to others.

I'd be shocked if we didn't have a shocking twist of some epic proportions.

I think this show is planting seeds of "mad queen" in order to surprise us. They've done it before. Such as the seeds that Arya was going to kill Sansa at the behest of Littlefinger and then they suprise-kill him instead. They also planted the seeds of a Jon vs NK Rocky match, but Arya killed him instead.

I think Dany redeems herself in some way and either dies (and give the throne to Jon) or gains the throne in a way where she is universally accepted and liked.
JJxvi
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gigemJTH12 said:

What? No. That thing can shoot fire pretty damn far. She could stay high enough where none of those things can angle up to her.
It doesnt really matter, they'll have them do what they do no matter how nonsensical, but based on what we've seen the scorpions have a longer range than the dragons fire.

Also a scorpion down the wall like 10-15-20 spots away doesnt have all that steep of an angle compared to the one the dragon would be directly over.
Urban Ag
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Yeah I really don't think she goes through with it or at least fully goes through with it.

One of those "what have I done?" or "what have I become?" moments. A moment of hesitation and as she knows she is crossing the line, that singular moment that makes her vulnerable to her enemies, and she pays for it.

I just don't believe GRRM ever intended for her so trade her humanity for power, but that she would come close.
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