i can kind of see both sides of it

yeah sam went out like a *****, but he's also not the sword wielding kind. he killed the WW because he HAD to to protect his girl. he killed the rapers because he HAD to to protect his girl.

him curing jorah was an intellectual endeavor not a physical one

dude was overmatched and out of his element in the battle and i think it showed. agree his plot line would have been neater and cleaner had he been in the crypt protecting his girl because that's what he does, but they needed everyone out there.

StringerBell said:

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i can kind of see both sides of it

yeah sam went out like a *****, but he's also not the sword wielding kind. he killed the WW because he HAD to to protect his girl. he killed the rapers because he HAD to to protect his girl.

him curing jorah was an intellectual endeavor not a physical one

dude was overmatched and out of his element in the battle and i think it showed. agree his plot line would have been neater and cleaner had he been in the crypt protecting his girl because that's what he does, but they needed everyone out there.

---

The point is that Sam isn't one to run from the face of danger. Especially when those he cares about are in the face of that danger. It was a complete character regression moment and I wish he hadn't even been there if that's the only narrative purpose he served.

Again, no one is asking for Sam to become a sword wielding badass. Just don't show him regress to the sniveling character YOU showed he already grew from.

aTmAg said:

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gigemJTH12 said:

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On Lyanna Mormont. I do not get the love for her at all.

I am emotionally attached to more characters on this show than all other shows combined and she's not even in the top 10.

Her death was unrealistic even for a fantasy show.

I could have gone without that or without her the entire series tbh.

---

Agreed. If you were holding up a small animal that is trying to kill you (like a scorpion or something) would you hold it within reach of your eyeball? Hell no. That was ridiculous. Didn't ruin the episode or anything, though.

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There's also an element of him wanting to believe he's become that guy, but he hasn't.

I do agree that his several (and others') near death experiences became a little eyerolling in this episode, so I'm definitely not goaltending for the writers, I just think that one particular aspect was fine.

i disagree. we dont know what sam does when he has a choice or when he's faced with danger not specific to gilly and his kid.

we know he can take a beating and stand up for what he loves.

Luke Smith said:

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gigemJTH12 said:

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On Lyanna Mormont. I do not get the love for her at all.

I am emotionally attached to more characters on this show than all other shows combined and she's not even in the top 10.

Her death was unrealistic even for a fantasy show.

I could have gone without that or without her the entire series tbh.

---

"Her death was unrealistic even for a fantasy show"


Really. In a show with dragons, ice zombies, shadow demon babies, flaming swords, people being brought back to life, huge wolves, a dude that can control other dudes and see through time, etc... it's a little girl that acts tough that kills the realism for you?

You have other children that stabbed some old guy to death and helped blow up the city. Oh yeah that's about right.

But one little girl get's picked up and stabs an undead giant in the eye, and that is what breaks the realism in the show for you.



JFC people.

---

"Acts tough"

She was getting squished by a giant. You literally heard her bones crunch. Go watch the other **** the giants have done in this show(the very first time we see one) and tell me she still could have done that.

Yeah there's a lot of mystical stuff in the show, but not her. She's a human. A little girl.

StringerBell said:

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i disagree. we dont know what sam does when he has a choice or when he's faced with danger not specific to gilly and his kid.

we know he can take a beating and stand up for what he loves.

---

Dude he already made the choice to face danger just by being out in the front lines. It was a joke that he'd run away from Edd later.

And everything we've been told OVER and OVER is that the Night's Watch (Jon and Edd specifically) are his brothers. He loves them and that love has been established.

Another way to look at it is that Sam just saw Edd get got by a wight and he's realizing that this isn't going to be some big heroic wall that the wights are going to crash against. He realizes everyone out there is going to die, and there's nothing he can do about it, so he decides to get his ass back inside.

NASAg03 said:

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I've watched at Bar Munic in Houston multiple times last season and Phoenix last night. All have been great experiences with people dead quiet.

Watching from home is nice, but the crowd adds a great element as well. Not as bad as people make it out to be.

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Saw the Red Wedding at Phoenix. When **** went down, you could hear a pin drop in there.

Great experience.

bobinator said:

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Another way to look at it is that Sam just saw Edd get got by a wight and he's realizing that this isn't going to be some big heroic wall that the wights are going to crash against. He realizes everyone out there is going to die, and there's nothing he can do about it, so he decides to get his ass back inside.

---

agree with this. he's not fighting for his brothers. he's just fighting against a faceless opponent--one in which he's sure to die.

put him back to back with jon and sure he'd wreck shop. put him as one in a million soldiers fighting against horrible odds and i think its well within his character arc for him to be afraid and run.

Thank you. Them bringing up the fantasy elements has nothing to do with her. She's a little girl. Who got her bones crushed. Unless she has some fantasy element to her specifically, it's a top 5 unrealistic moment of the series. And pretty lame.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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not even close to the same things there. she didn't overpower the giant in any way.

---

A 12 year old girl stabbing a Giant in the eye after getting her spine crushed is realistic?

I love the episode, but wholeheartedly agree with the take that all the redshirts die and none of the a-list players encounter any real danger. I noticed it last season during "Beyond the Wall" when the magnificent seven ride out and the only main person who dies was the cnut with the top-knot, Thoros... I figured they'd make up for that by needing everyone they could at the Battle of Winterfell, but the same thing happened. I thought I saw several characters die multiple times and then they came out unscathed, in the biggest battle of all time, with every no-name dying around them, and it seems out of place for a show that was so great at making every character surviving a battle feel like a blessing. Now if a character dies it's almost certainly to have them redeem themselves for past sins, giving them a happy ending in their own way.

At this point I think the show has used all of the suspenseful "anyone can die" good-will that it earned over the first 4-5 seasons... if there was a time to cash in on that, it was this episode. If by some chance they have a giant battle at King's Landing with drastic consequences I'll eat crow, but until then I'm just going to see this as an extremely well done show that's mostly going to stay within the tropes of usual television.

John and Danny work it out, Gendry and Arya get together long term, Sam and Gilly live happily ever after, Grey Worm and Missandei run away to start a new life, Sansa rules the North, Tyrion gets Casterly Rock, the Hound wins Cleganebowl, Brianne gets to serve an honorable king/queen, Jamie gets several pages of achievements in the White Book/Book of Brothers, Bran lives out his days as a mole man, Bronn gets his Castle, and Podrick runs a chain of successful brothels. Hell, maybe they can reanimate whatever's left of Hodor's corpse and have him keep Bran company like the scene in the end of Shaun of the Dead.

Also, I think that Arya's scene with the Knight King should have killed both of them. Like other posters have pointed out, you now have Arya killing the Knight King, Walder Frey, Meryn Trant, and Little Finger. How is she possibly going to top that? Cersei's on her list, but then it's basically the Arya Kills Everyone show, and she should be able to take out Cersei easily. They should have had the Knight King grab her by the throat and pull a throat rip while she stabbed him, so she goes out in style like Rambo/Patrick Swayze/McGruber AND pads out the main character death toll.

bonfarr said:

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Luke Smith said:

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gigemJTH12 said:

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Luke Smith said:

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gigemJTH12 said:

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On Lyanna Mormont. I do not get the love for her at all.

I am emotionally attached to more characters on this show than all other shows combined and she's not even in the top 10.

Her death was unrealistic even for a fantasy show.

I could have gone without that or without her the entire series tbh.

---

"Her death was unrealistic even for a fantasy show"


Really. In a show with dragons, ice zombies, shadow demon babies, flaming swords, people being brought back to life, huge wolves, a dude that can control other dudes and see through time, etc... it's a little girl that acts tough that kills the realism for you?

You have other children that stabbed some old guy to death and helped blow up the city. Oh yeah that's about right.

But one little girl get's picked up and stabs an undead giant in the eye, and that is what breaks the realism in the show for you.



JFC people.

---

"Acts tough"

She was getting squished by a giant. You literally heard her bones crunch. Go watch the other **** the giants have done in this show(the very first time we see one) and tell me she still could have done that.

Yeah there's a lot of mystical stuff in the show, but not her. She's a human. A little girl.

---

There's so many points in the show when people should have died and they don't or it's prolonged.

The giant is crushing her as he brings her up to his mouth to eat her. She musters all the strength she has left and stabs him in the eye, and dies.

Is it ridiculous? Sure. Is it implausible? Sure.

But to draw the line here and say this is what makes the show unbelievable is ridiculous

---

Watching a woman give birth to an apparition that murders a King? Seems legit. Badass little girl stabs a giant in the eye GTFO. Lol.

---

By your logic let's just give Jamie Lannister teleportation abilities. Maybe Howland Reed returns and can breathe fire. After all, it's a fantasy show and anything can happen and wouldn't be unsatisfying in the slightest.

La Bamba said:

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Completely agree with almost all your points. The writers went out of their way to give Arya the kill, going against the character arcs, and the purpose of the character's storyline from Season 1.

Starting with the induction into the Night's Watch, it has been Jon's sole motive to lead the fight against the undead. Even with all the other politics going on, he has had laser focus on this motive. To sideline his character in the most important, defining episode of his personal journey, is just a let down. He didn't need to be Rocky, he didn't need to have performed the kill, but he should have been given a bigger role in the ultimate demise of the Night King. To be neutralized by the half torn apart zombie Dragon when the two other dragons, albeit hurt, were still capable of fighting (and just conveniently disappeared) is lazy at best, SJW dishonest at worst.

And then there's Arya. Let's be honest, Arya was running for her life inside the castle. The Jurassic Park scene was one where she clearly was struggling, scared, and had trouble getting from one side of the room to the next with MAYBE 20 wights in the room. But somehow all she needed was a pep talk from the red woman for her to then proceed to escape a room with wights knocking on the door, somehow making her way down to the godswood, all while evading 20,000 wights, 20 white walkers and the Night King's peripheral vision to jump the NK. Lazy writing. I don't care how much she trained. Why was she shown struggling against a lesser force and then all of a sudden, she overcomes the insurmountable force? The Red Woman needs to coach the Texas A&M Aggie Football team apparently. Or she is really Nick Saban.

Not to mention that Season 1 laid the foundation for Arya to become a revenge machine after watching her father get beheaded by the Lannisters. She was never a player in the fight against the undead until she shows up in Winterfell last season. Understand she has very useful skills, but it just didn't seem right to do it this way.

Ok GoT apologists, fire away.

---

The Night King employed The Patriots Head Coach Bill Billichick's strategy that when his team goes up against a formidable opponent - take their best guy out of the action at any cost and hope that the rest of the team comes up short.

He did the right thing...the North had one more King Slayer than he planned for.

Barbarossa said:

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John and Danny work it out, Gendry and Arya get together long term, Sam and Gilly live happily ever after, Grey Worm and Missandei run away to start a new life, Sansa rules the North, Tyrion gets Casterly Rock, the Hound wins Cleganebowl, Brianne gets to serve an honorable king/queen, Jamie gets several pages of achievements in the White Book/Book of Brothers, Bran lives out his days as a mole man, Bronn gets his Castle, and Podrick runs a chain of successful brothels. Hell, maybe they can reanimate whatever's left of Hodor's corpse and have him keep Bran company like the scene in the end of Shaun of the Dead.

---

If that really happened this would be the most epic collapse of a badass show ever. No way that happens. Not even close. if it does...yikes.

spence10 said:

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bonfarr said:

---

Luke Smith said:

---

gigemJTH12 said:

---

Luke Smith said:

---

gigemJTH12 said:

---

On Lyanna Mormont. I do not get the love for her at all.

I am emotionally attached to more characters on this show than all other shows combined and she's not even in the top 10.

Her death was unrealistic even for a fantasy show.

I could have gone without that or without her the entire series tbh.

---

"Her death was unrealistic even for a fantasy show"


Really. In a show with dragons, ice zombies, shadow demon babies, flaming swords, people being brought back to life, huge wolves, a dude that can control other dudes and see through time, etc... it's a little girl that acts tough that kills the realism for you?

You have other children that stabbed some old guy to death and helped blow up the city. Oh yeah that's about right.

But one little girl get's picked up and stabs an undead giant in the eye, and that is what breaks the realism in the show for you.



JFC people.

---

"Acts tough"

She was getting squished by a giant. You literally heard her bones crunch. Go watch the other **** the giants have done in this show(the very first time we see one) and tell me she still could have done that.

Yeah there's a lot of mystical stuff in the show, but not her. She's a human. A little girl.

---

There's so many points in the show when people should have died and they don't or it's prolonged.

The giant is crushing her as he brings her up to his mouth to eat her. She musters all the strength she has left and stabs him in the eye, and dies.

Is it ridiculous? Sure. Is it implausible? Sure.

But to draw the line here and say this is what makes the show unbelievable is ridiculous

---

Watching a woman give birth to an apparition that murders a King? Seems legit. Badass little girl stabs a giant in the eye GTFO. Lol.

---

By your logic let's just give Jamie Lannister teleportation abilities. Maybe Howland Reed returns and can breathe fire. After all, it's a fantasy show and anything can happen and wouldn't be unsatisfying in the slightest.

---

It was sarcasm man. I like Mormont the Giant Killer.

gigemJTH12 said:

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Barbarossa said:

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John and Danny work it out, Gendry and Arya get together long term, Sam and Gilly live happily ever after, Grey Worm and Missandei run away to start a new life, Sansa rules the North, Tyrion gets Casterly Rock, the Hound wins Cleganebowl, Brianne gets to serve an honorable king/queen, Jamie gets several pages of achievements in the White Book/Book of Brothers, Bran lives out his days as a mole man, Bronn gets his Castle, and Podrick runs a chain of successful brothels. Hell, maybe they can reanimate whatever's left of Hodor's corpse and have him keep Bran company like the scene in the end of Shaun of the Dead.

---

If that really happened this would be the most epic collapse of a badass show ever. No way that happens. Not even close. if it does...yikes.

---

Prepare to be disappointed then. The show is going to have it's Star Wars ending moment where all the favorite characters are there together one last time to be rewarded.

I actually think mid-week is when these threads get better because a lot of the emotion from the first watch wears off.

Also, I've never understood the urge of people to post on a thread to say they're done posting on a thread...

I'm just disappointed we didn't see zombie Hodor or Zombie Ned

WTF with some of these complaints?!

This thread has already reached post-season, and there are still a few games/episodes left to be played.

Night King Lives.