****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to aTmAg • 12:45p, 4/30/19
AG
aTmAg said:
bobinator said:
You're worried about Arya being the right size after she's dead? Who cares? They'd only need to show her face.
It would be a plot hole that nobody could get over. If you think Dany flying a dragon across the continent at mach 3 is bad, wait until they show a 6 foot tall man get killed, then the next shot it's a short girl wearing smaller clothing, shoes, etc.
you apparently don't get how illusions work. I think it has always been more than just their face.

They transform at least from the viewers perception of them. So the body clothes, etc. DON'T change, but the appearance of the body clothes etc changes to the observers.


And for that matter if people are going to be upset by that - wouldn't they already? it's happened many times already.

We saw the Waif turn into Jaqen in S5 and it was immediate her change in size and appearance (to us and Arya).

Look at the Freys killing using Walder Frey. She stands up and gives a speech as Walder and is much taller than the girl servant. Arya is probably the same height as her.






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Brian Earl Spilner
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12:47p, 4/30/19
AG
Someone brightened up the first wave of the battle and turned the contrast way up.

https://v.redd.it/no5x94f94fv21
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bobinator
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In reply to aTmAg • 12:49p, 4/30/19
AG
aTmAg said:
bobinator said:
You're worried about Arya being the right size after she's dead? Who cares? They'd only need to show her face.
It would be a plot hole that nobody could get over. If you think Dany flying a dragon across the continent at mach 3 is bad, wait until they show a 6 foot tall man get killed, then the next shot it's a short girl wearing smaller clothing, shoes, etc.
As someone who has criticized this show for kind of fudging the details at times, this is something that I don't think anyone but a handful of sticklers out there would even notice/care about, but even more than that, it's not something they'd have to show on screen. The mountain grabs a guy by the throat, squeezed the life out of them, they die, they (Qyburn? Cersei?) notice something weird about the face, pull it off close up, it's Arya, dramatic music, mountain lets go of her, full screen shot of Arya's dead face. End scene.

I don't think that's going to happen, I'm just saying it could happen and it wouldn't be a big deal.
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Teddy Perkins
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 12:50p, 4/30/19
AG
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 12:54p, 4/30/19
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Someone brightened up the first wave of the battle and turned the contrast way up.

https://v.redd.it/no5x94f94fv21


Better...but man...... in retrospect I just think it was a huge mistake to make this entire battle at night.

Blackwater was at night but otherwise none have been. and that was really a much smaller scale - and better lighting because they had torches and well there was not a winter storm upon them.

there really was no reason it had to be at night - except it made it easier from a production and budget point of view (obscured backgrounds mean less to render) - which I suppose is exactly why it was at night.

but otherwise. no reason it could not have started at dawn.
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 12:56p, 4/30/19
Brian Earl Spilner said:
MuckRaker96 said:
I'm so sick of hearing about "Cleganebowl." Would love the producers have the two of them square off and the Mountain cuts the Hound in half in the first 2 seconds.
So you want the showdown that they have openly teased in the series before to be short and anticlimactic just to spite the fans?
I want Game of Thrones to stick to its original base of having unexpected things happen and not everybody gets a happy ending. Robb wanted to avenge his father's death by defeating the Lannisters. Barristan Selmy wanted to return to Westeros with the rightful queen. Catelyn wanted to go home to see Bran and Rickon again. Theon Grejoy would have preferred more years with his ***** attached to his body.

Right now, the Hound is in the best place he's ever been in his entire life. Respected, part of a fighting force that has defeated the worst thing possible, and he's even overcome his fear of fire, inspired by Arya and Lyanna. Besides his actual brother has been dead for years. The mountain is just a thing at this point. It'd be like Karl Malone or Charles Barkley beating Michael Jordan for the NBA title when Jordan was with the Wizards. Cutting its head off won't fix his face or unburn him.

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jtstanley4621
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12:58p, 4/30/19
AG
I have no real issues with the episode. I'm okay with no major people dying because they were RIGHT on the verge of all dying until the very end. I never felt for a second like any of the characters were safe with the way it was shot.
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aTmAg
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 12:59p, 4/30/19
AG
Zombie Jon Snow said:
aTmAg said:
bobinator said:
You're worried about Arya being the right size after she's dead? Who cares? They'd only need to show her face.
It would be a plot hole that nobody could get over. If you think Dany flying a dragon across the continent at mach 3 is bad, wait until they show a 6 foot tall man get killed, then the next shot it's a short girl wearing smaller clothing, shoes, etc.
you apparently don't get how illusions work. I think it has always been more than just their face.

They transform at least from the viewers perception of them. So the body clothes, etc. DON'T change, but the appearance of the body clothes etc changes to the observers.


And for that matter if people are going to be upset by that - wouldn't they already? it's happened many times already.

We saw the Waif turn into Jaqen in S5 and it was immediate her change in size and appearance (to us and Arya).

Look at the Freys killing using Walder Frey. She stands up and gives a speech as Walder and is much taller than the girl servant. Arya is probably the same height as her.

Watch the scene after she pulls off the mask. They show her exactly as tall as "Frey" was prior to pulling off the mask:


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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to aTmAg • 1:01p, 4/30/19
AG
aTmAg said:
Zombie Jon Snow said:
aTmAg said:
bobinator said:
You're worried about Arya being the right size after she's dead? Who cares? They'd only need to show her face.
It would be a plot hole that nobody could get over. If you think Dany flying a dragon across the continent at mach 3 is bad, wait until they show a 6 foot tall man get killed, then the next shot it's a short girl wearing smaller clothing, shoes, etc.
you apparently don't get how illusions work. I think it has always been more than just their face.

They transform at least from the viewers perception of them. So the body clothes, etc. DON'T change, but the appearance of the body clothes etc changes to the observers.


And for that matter if people are going to be upset by that - wouldn't they already? it's happened many times already.

We saw the Waif turn into Jaqen in S5 and it was immediate her change in size and appearance (to us and Arya).

Look at the Freys killing using Walder Frey. She stands up and gives a speech as Walder and is much taller than the girl servant. Arya is probably the same height as her.

Watch the scene after she pulls off the mask. They show her exactly as tall as "Frey" was prior to pulling off the mask:



Yes.... but if you keep watching that as she turns and walks away she appears to step down. I think she was on a stool. and that long shot shows her taller but the closeup before walking away she is looking at her eye to eye - the same height.

the whole thing is kinda messed up but - that's production stuff imho.


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benchmark
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In reply to Furlock Bones • 1:02p, 4/30/19
AG
Furlock Bones said:
did they show Arya alive after she killed the NK? i don't remember. could she still be dead or dying since he touched her? they gave her the NK king kill, but the way it feels now is that she could kill Cersei with ease.
She's in the preview for next week...so, she very much alive.
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bobinator
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 1:02p, 4/30/19
AG
I don't know... it wouldn't have made any sense for the army of the dead to attack in the day time. I think this battle had to be at night.

Effectively the Night King has a few million (or whatever) soulless zombies he can throw at Winterfell, they don't have feelings or anything, and his plan is just to overwhelm their defenses anyway, so the more chaos you can create the better off you're going to be. So not only does he attack at night, he also creates a blizzard so that basically nobody can see anything and it's madness.
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aTmAg
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In reply to bobinator • 1:02p, 4/30/19
AG
bobinator said:
aTmAg said:
bobinator said:
You're worried about Arya being the right size after she's dead? Who cares? They'd only need to show her face.
It would be a plot hole that nobody could get over. If you think Dany flying a dragon across the continent at mach 3 is bad, wait until they show a 6 foot tall man get killed, then the next shot it's a short girl wearing smaller clothing, shoes, etc.
As someone who has criticized this show for kind of fudging the details at times, this is something that I don't think anyone but a handful of sticklers out there would even notice/care about, but even more than that, it's not something they'd have to show on screen. The mountain grabs a guy by the throat, squeezed the life out of them, they die, they (Qyburn? Cersei?) notice something weird about the face, pull it off close up, it's Arya, dramatic music, mountain lets go of her, full screen shot of Arya's dead face. End scene.

I don't think that's going to happen, I'm just saying it could happen and it wouldn't be a big deal.
I'm not arguing that they couldn't' do it. Just that they shouldn't do it. Not only for the height reasons I mentioned, but it makes her too much like a superhero. There is a reason Superman is the most boring of the superheros. He's too powerful. Batman, who's not even "super" is far more interesting. (Not trying to turn this into a superhero thread)
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aTmAg
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 1:04p, 4/30/19
AG
Zombie Jon Snow said:
aTmAg said:
Zombie Jon Snow said:
aTmAg said:
bobinator said:
You're worried about Arya being the right size after she's dead? Who cares? They'd only need to show her face.
It would be a plot hole that nobody could get over. If you think Dany flying a dragon across the continent at mach 3 is bad, wait until they show a 6 foot tall man get killed, then the next shot it's a short girl wearing smaller clothing, shoes, etc.
you apparently don't get how illusions work. I think it has always been more than just their face.

They transform at least from the viewers perception of them. So the body clothes, etc. DON'T change, but the appearance of the body clothes etc changes to the observers.


And for that matter if people are going to be upset by that - wouldn't they already? it's happened many times already.

We saw the Waif turn into Jaqen in S5 and it was immediate her change in size and appearance (to us and Arya).

Look at the Freys killing using Walder Frey. She stands up and gives a speech as Walder and is much taller than the girl servant. Arya is probably the same height as her.

Watch the scene after she pulls off the mask. They show her exactly as tall as "Frey" was prior to pulling off the mask:



Yes.... but if you keep watching that as she turns and walks away she appears to step down. I think she was on a stool. and that long shot shows her taller but the closeup before walking away she is looking at her eye to eye - the same height.

the whole thing is kinda messed up but - that's production stuff imho.
Yeah, it makes sense that she was on a stool for this. To me, that means the show did a good job on that detail. That girl is not going to question (perhaps not even notice) that Arya is standing on a stool.

But Arya wouldn't be able to pull that off walking up to Cersie as Qyburn to slit her throat.
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My Dad Earl
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1:04p, 4/30/19
AG
So on the "Prince that was promised" issue, is it possible that Melisandre and the other red women got it completely wrong? After all, it is only a "prophecy". Looking back at the series, Melisandre doesn't have the best track record when it comes to getting her visions and prophecies right. Why would we believe her with this one?

...or, for those who believe the "Bran is the Night King" theory, do we really believe the Night King is truly dead? Maybe the prophecy has yet to play itself out? Just food for thought.
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BCG Disciple
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1:06p, 4/30/19
AG
Jamie is killed saving Brienne. This allows Arya to use his face, which she does to kill Cersei. Jamie's fave allows him to get close to Her and also fulfills the prophecy of being killed by her brother.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to bobinator • 1:08p, 4/30/19
AG
bobinator said:
I don't know... it wouldn't have made any sense for the army of the dead to attack in the day time. I think this battle had to be at night.

Effectively the Night King has a few million (or whatever) soulless zombies he can throw at Winterfell, they don't have feelings or anything, and his plan is just to overwhelm their defenses anyway, so the more chaos you can create the better off you're going to be. So not only does he attack at night, he also creates a blizzard so that basically nobody can see anything and it's madness.

yeah i get all of that. but would have been better in light. for us.

and as for whether it makes sense - Hardhome was in daylight.

i think the timing of this was just when they got there.... because of the speed of them walking. Tormund and them raced ahead and said they would be there before dawn. Well they didn't have to be. It was a production choice and it made it worse for the viewer.


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HtownAg92
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1:13p, 4/30/19
AG
I'm hoping for one last parlay before the last battle so that Cersei can sheet all over R+L+J, and the glorification of all things Targ, because in the grand scheme it doesn't mean much.

Cersei: Remind me why you are here again?
Dany: Because I am Dany Targaryen, Mother of Dragons, Breaker of ....
Cersei: Fine, fine, please don't. And you, bast--- boy?
Aegon: I'm not a bast---, I'm the legitimate son of Rhaegar Targaryan and Lyanna Stark. I'm also a Targaryan.
Dany: (cough) allegedly (cough)
Cersei: And?
Dany: You see, I'm...."we"....are Targaryans - rightful heir..
Aegon: Heirs
Dany: ....heirs to Aerys Targaryan.
Cersei: So?
Aegon: So we have a rightful claim to the throne.

Cersei: Let me tell you how I see it. You, Blondie, my brother killed your father right about where you are standing, my daddy wiped out pretty much the entire existence of your family and anyone in this city who was loyal to him. You, Bas....sorry, old habit... my ex-husband, Gods rest his soul, killed your daddy on the Trident and then took a seat on this throne, with my daddy's backing. Then my son beheaded your Daddy / Uncle, and then my daddy punked a bunch of your mommy's family at the Red Wedding. Then my daddy's buddy took down a sheet-ton of your family's army in the Battle of the Bast...Boltons and Starks. You've got loyalty problems back home, because they named you King as a Stark, not as a Targaryan. You two are the only two remnants of a family that was overthrown and wiped out 20 years ago, whose existence is glorified only in the history books and a nerdy writer's fantasy.

So tell me again what your claim is?
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aTmAg
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 1:13p, 4/30/19
AG
Zombie Jon Snow said:
bobinator said:
I don't know... it wouldn't have made any sense for the army of the dead to attack in the day time. I think this battle had to be at night.

Effectively the Night King has a few million (or whatever) soulless zombies he can throw at Winterfell, they don't have feelings or anything, and his plan is just to overwhelm their defenses anyway, so the more chaos you can create the better off you're going to be. So not only does he attack at night, he also creates a blizzard so that basically nobody can see anything and it's madness.

yeah i get all of that. but would have been better in light. for us.

and as for whether it makes sense - Hardhome was in daylight.

i think the timing of this was just when they got there.... because of the speed of them walking. Tormund and them raced ahead and said they would be there before dawn. Well they didn't have to be. It was a production choice and it made it worse for the viewer.
I think it being at night was fine. Just make it brighter for us. Say it was a full moon or whatever. These videos that people have brightened look fine. I don't know why they didn't just do that.
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StringerBell
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1:15p, 4/30/19
AG
i can understand the critique of having all the main characters survive

but in watching that clip with the brightness turned up i dont know how you go about doing that. there was no hand to hand combat to give any of the main characters a visible death. if anything they would have just walked up a day later and been like "oh **** there's brienne and she's been cut in half"

i guess my point here is that the enemy was a macro enemy and main character deaths seems like a micro thing and i dont see how that was possible

but then again that's what they did with jorah so maybe i dont know what im talking about
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to aTmAg • 1:16p, 4/30/19
AG
Agreed. One or the other.
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Urban Ag
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In reply to aTmAg • 1:16p, 4/30/19
AG
Or just have more sh** burning all over the place. If only there was a source of fire or two.
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DannyDuberstein
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1:18p, 4/30/19
AG
Jorah's death was pretty badass. I think the most silly was how many times they had Brienne with at least one if not multiple dead on her, her screaming in panicked agony, yet all is good. It was at least 3 and maybe 4 times. Multiple on her while on the ground early in battle. Multiple on her up against the wall where she screams bloody murder. Then at a different time there's one on her back when she's up against the wall screaming bloody murder.

If you want to let her live, then let her live. But it was pretty silly to see her in what seemed to be a screaming, panicky death moment over and over. If they need Brienne to close out the Cersei story, then it should have been Tormund getting swarmed and killed. His comedic aspect has been overused at this point anyway.
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Urban Ag
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1:18p, 4/30/19
AG
But.....I think the most obvious reason it was at light, sometimes grainy and hard to make out, was....wait for it......money.

Costs considerably less to create dragons and zombies and stuff that doesn't have to be flawless for the high def when it's dark.
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DannyDuberstein
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1:21p, 4/30/19
AG
Yeah, I think the theme of eternal darkness + $$$ were the main drivers. Don't have to be as thorough and clean with CGI. Don't have to be as thorough and clean with the shoot. The audience got kind of gipped.
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FIDO95
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1:22p, 4/30/19
AG
https://www.austin360.com/news/20190430/you-can-see-aryas-dagger-from-game-of-thrones-battle-of-winterfell-at-texas-am?utm_source=SND&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=austin360

Has anyone been by to see if any NK ice still on the blade?
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aTmAg
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In reply to Urban Ag • 1:23p, 4/30/19
AG
Urban Ag said:
But.....I think the most obvious reason it was at light, sometimes grainy and hard to make out, was....wait for it......money.

Costs considerably less to create dragons and zombies and stuff that doesn't have to be flawless for the high def when it's dark.
I think night is better for emotion and fear reasons. That whole Dothracki scene was pretty damned cool (and frightening) and wouldn't have been possible during the day.

I think it was a good decision to make it at night (not just for cost reasons). Just make it a LITTLE bit brighter so we can see SOMETHING.
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bobinator
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 1:24p, 4/30/19
AG
At Hardhome they were already evacuating before the attack, so they attacked as soon as they arrived. (Now... why it took them so long to arrive there is another question, but they were already trying to leave when the army got there so an immediate attack makes sense.)

But the darkness didn't bother me as much as a lot of people, I thought that was kind part of it. I thought it was kind of supposed to be intentionally confusing.
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Vernada
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In reply to aTmAg • 1:25p, 4/30/19
AG
aTmAg said:
Zombie Jon Snow said:
bobinator said:
I don't know... it wouldn't have made any sense for the army of the dead to attack in the day time. I think this battle had to be at night.

Effectively the Night King has a few million (or whatever) soulless zombies he can throw at Winterfell, they don't have feelings or anything, and his plan is just to overwhelm their defenses anyway, so the more chaos you can create the better off you're going to be. So not only does he attack at night, he also creates a blizzard so that basically nobody can see anything and it's madness.

yeah i get all of that. but would have been better in light. for us.

and as for whether it makes sense - Hardhome was in daylight.

i think the timing of this was just when they got there.... because of the speed of them walking. Tormund and them raced ahead and said they would be there before dawn. Well they didn't have to be. It was a production choice and it made it worse for the viewer.
I think it being at night was fine. Just make it brighter for us. Say it was a full moon or whatever. These videos that people have brightened look fine. I don't know why they didn't just do that.
Exactly. I understand it's nighttime and confusing for the characters. However, I'm the consumer trying to see what's going on - this episode pretty well failed at delivering a good product to the consumer.
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Urban Ag
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In reply to DannyDuberstein • 1:26p, 4/30/19
AG
I think Brienne got taken down so many times and survived because, first, she has high quality Lannister made armor (only the best) and second, she's a great dramatic screamer. Adds tension.

I agree though. Just needed a couple more deaths. Brienne couldn't die yet be cause Jamie couldn't die yet. Brienne and Jamie have to find a room at some point. Pod getting whacked would have been a great gut punch to add drama. The Hound going down screaming getting swarmed but taking a dozen with him would have worked as well. To your point, Tormund.

My hope is that those that were spared were done so because they still have either an important role or scene coming up, factor highly in to resolving the GOT, or would realistically be somebody very important in the aftermath of it all.
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bobinator
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In reply to aTmAg • 1:26p, 4/30/19
AG
I also don't really think they thought of it.

As some articles have theorized, I don't think they thought about the fact that most people are going to be watching this in a not-completely-dark room and on a stream that might downgrade.

On our TV the parts where it was streaming in HD looked fine, it was just when it downgraded because a billion people were streaming the same thing at the same time that it had some issues.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to bobinator • 1:28p, 4/30/19
AG

Yes no doubt it added to the emotion... and for budget reasons made it easier.

But purely from a watcher point of view more light would have been better in several places. The Dothraki attack for one thing... they got off cheap there really and kill 100K without showing anything. then they roll in the clouds and obscured everything.

I get why - both cost and tension. Just saying it sucked that way for some of it.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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1:28p, 4/30/19
AG
https://deadline.com/2019/04/game-of-thrones-ratings-rise-winterfell-maisie-williams-hbo-1202604556/

Quote:
Topping the previous record of the Season 8 "Winterfell" opener of April 14, "The Long Night" snagged 17.8 million viewers over all platforms and with two linear airings. That bested the "Winterfell" episode by 3% in gross audience a win is still a win not matter how close.
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aTmAg
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 1:32p, 4/30/19
AG
Zombie Jon Snow said:

Yes no doubt it added to the emotion... and for budget reasons made it easier.

But purely from a watcher point of view more light would have been better in several places. The Dothraki attack for one thing... they got off cheap there really and kill 100K without showing anything. then they roll in the clouds and obscured everything.

I get why - both cost and tension. Just saying it sucked that way for some of it.
I think the clouds and storm was a great tactical move by the NK (he seemed smarter than the good guys). And he had done it in the past, so it was consistent. I would have expected him to do that even if it was during the day. Especially when you are going against dragons. Before that storm, Jon and Dany were doing pretty damned good against the zombies. It probably would have been a close fight if it wasn't for that storm taking the dragons out of the mix.
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DannyDuberstein
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In reply to bobinator • 1:33p, 4/30/19
AG
I agree with this. Downgraded streams + whatever the F was gong on with DTV

I thought there were two key spots where it really screwed up the effect: 1) when the first Dothraki hitting the horde. It was so fast, so dark,and such a blur, that a scary effect was gone. 2) The dragon battle was the other one I thought. Was hard to tell which dragon was which and wtf was happening.
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Trident 88
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1:34p, 4/30/19
AG
Ned Stark dies, and everyone is shocked and upset.

Then, we have the Red Wedding. Everyone is shocked and upset again.

Then, we have the battle against the NK and his army, and lots of folks are pissed off that too many of the main characters are still alive.

Has it occurred to anyone that allowing so many of them to live was the shocking (and to many, upsetting) option for the writers to choose?

It actually makes sense, given that the element of betrayal is what was different when you compare Ned's execution and the Red Wedding to this good old-fashioned brawl. Betrayal is what really makes the death of a main character sting, and if this long story stays true to its roots, we're going to see it again in the battle at King's Landing.
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