Zombie Jon Snow said:

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bonfarr said:

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Mel has to go to Winterfell if the Azor Ahai prophecy is going to happen. Azor Ahai is supposed to be reborn (Snow) and he will plunge his sword into Mel's heart which will set the sword aflame and it will be used to slay the Night King.

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Nothing says it is Mel's heart. Could be but that's not known for sure.

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GrayArea mentions an interesting tinfoil hat theory about the whereabouts of Mel in her 8x2 review for those interested. It would be glamorous if true.

jeffdjohnson said:

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Dan 07 said:

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JABQ04 said:

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PatAg said:

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JABQ04 said:

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I still maintain the NK wins it all. To quote Ramsay, "If you thinks this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."

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You mean the character that was defeated by a former prisoner of his? A character we are intended to root for to win?

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I guess I'm missing your point. I'm saying the NK wins. I threw in the Ramsay quote because I felt it sums up this entire situation. Good guys gonna get steamrolled here.

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So they spent 10 years developing these characters and stories only to see them steamrolled at the end by an undead army of ice zombies? From a storytelling perspective I don't see it.

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I think that is exactly the story GRRM has been setting up from the beginning. People worried about petty politics when we are all going to die anyways. Existential terror, etc...

The line in this episode about the Night King wanting to "erase the memory of the world" is interesting. Makes me wonder if this is all a cycle that has played out before. Winter comes and the NK erases the world. Spring comes, the NK retreats and the world starts again. Maybe the NK has never been defeated. Seems like a GRRM thing to do (i.e. there is always someone reaching for power in the face of inevitable death, after they die the cycle continues).

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The NK doesn't return each winter, but Bran seemed to indicate that there has been an ongoing struggle between the NK and those that have served as the 3ER raven. The only other encounter between humans and the WW (at least south of the wall) seems to have been the Long Night.

I'm interested to know more about Bran's role with respect to the memory of the world/mankind. I need to re-watch this scene to see exactly what he says, but it seems like there has to be something crucial in terms of defeating the NK/WW. So far, other characters have discovered the power of dragonglass and Valyrian steel, so it's unclear what else Bran could find out (and that would matter this late in the game)? Personally, I don't think Bran will discover how to raise the dead to fight for the living, but it could be an option (and would be awesome to see the Starks of old fighting).

FIDO95 said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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bonfarr said:

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Mel has to go to Winterfell if the Azor Ahai prophecy is going to happen. Azor Ahai is supposed to be reborn (Snow) and he will plunge his sword into Mel's heart which will set the sword aflame and it will be used to slay the Night King.

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Nothing says it is Mel's heart. Could be but that's not known for sure.

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GrayArea mentions an interesting tinfoil hat theory about the whereabouts of Mel in her 8x2 review for those interested. It would be GLAMOROUS if true.

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M.C. Swag said:

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The Trouble Spots:

• I know the common sentiment online and twitter is that this episode was 60 minutes of brilliance and anyone who thinks it comes up anywhere shy of that mark is a 'hater' but I'm in that minority. There were too many scenes that seemed aimless. The most egregious of which was the discussion between Sansa and Dany. I understand the show runners are trying to exemplify the growing strife between the 2 female leaders but that's already abundantly clear. Having Sansa (who continues to irk me) go after Dany about what COULD happen after 2 massive conflicts is akin to worrying about what 401k investment vehicle is best for a 21 yr old, unemployed, college dropout. There are BIGGER FISH TO FRY SANSA. That scene was irritating.
• I think they are setting up the post-battle struggle with these scenes.

• Sansa rushing to hug Theon was another head scratcher for me. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but was Sansa giving Theon love eyes? How did her affection for Theon seemingly sprout out of nowhere and what exactly did he do to earn it? (Yes, I understand he 'rescued' her from Ramsay, but that was after a countless string of atrocities he committed against the Stark family). It just seemed like she warped drived from loathing scorn to brotherly (or possibly more?) love for Theon. Of all the characters I'd expect to be hugged by 'the smartest person ever', I thought it'd be the Hound. My guy needs some more recognition.
• She liked him ever since they escaped Ramsey. She was sad when he left before they made it to Castle Black, but she had Brienne to protect her by then.

• Tyrion sitting down with Bran had allllll kinds of potential. Tyrion could literally discuss ANY event from the HISTORY of westeros and instead of listening to that conversation, we just had to hear about Missandei and Greyworm's vacation plans. That was a wasted moment.
• I love Missandei and Grey Worm, but I would love to have seen the Tyrion-Bran conversation as well.

• The amount of time (or lack thereof) dedicated to Jon and the ramifications of his parentage are a continuous struggle for me. 2 episodes in a row (when Jon learns from Sam and when Jon talks with Dany) the showrunners decide that the best time to squeeze that crucial information in is at the end of an episode with hardly an effort to re-examine it later. Both conversations lasted the span of 2 minutes. That's simply not enough. Jon went from hearing who his parents are to telling Dany "my name is Aegon Targaryen" in what appeared to the audience as a single night of mulling it over.
• I think they are also setting this up to be a post-battle struggle as well.

• My biggest gripe of all is also the hardest to describe. I love this show and I love so many of these characters (Tyrion being my all time #1) but I feel like the dialogue written for them was done by a Freshman English major. Almost EVERY conversation starts with a 'remember when' or 'the last time we met'the nuance or complexity is gone. Everything feels so obvious and shallow. For those Star Wars fans, this reminds me somewhat of 'The Force Awakens' and how a lot of criticism was heaped on it for using nostalgia as a crutch. I feel like this season so far is relying on our love of the characters from seasons past as this crutch and using that nostalgia as the vehicle for 'checking the box' on character meet ups (A perfect example of this; Tyrion's reunion with Jamie and his quote about 'dying with a belly full of wine.'). I went to look at the writer for these episodes and couldn't help but notice that Ep. 1 & 2 were written by two different people who aren't Benioff & Weiss.
• I think some of the nostalgia could be perfectly acceptable in the context of imminent death though.

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Orlando Ayala Cant Read said:

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Quote:

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Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but was Sansa giving Theon love eyes? How did her affection for Theon seemingly sprout out of nowhere and what exactly did he do to earn it? (Yes, I understand he 'rescued' her from Ramsay, but that was after a countless string of atrocities he committed against the Stark family).

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I don't think the writers are setting those 2 up for romance. I think they were setting up that she know felt a sense of platonic type love and loyalty to him for what they had been through.

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Yeah if Theon and Grey Worm have any hopes that they have futures with Sansa and Missandei then they are gonna be crushed emotionally some day.

Anybody catch that when Tyrion sidled up to Bran that he pushed over a little midget chair to sit down in?

Didn't know Winterfell had those...

Tree Hugger said:

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I mean this with all due respect...any of these tiny subplots from the books and or barely mentioned in the show, that have to be explained, are probably not going to make a reappearance at this point. I know you guys hung on to some of these things hoping they would...but I think everything from here on out is going to be pretty straight forward with the big stuff.

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So you're saying that Strong Belwas isn't going to ride in and save the day?

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I fully expect Lady Stone Heart to show up at the battle of Winterfell and save the day.

gigemJTH12 said:

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Sorry if already posted...

Am I the only one that kinda thought for a split second that Jamie might chop Briennes head off during the knighting ceremony and totally **** us all up?

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Yes! That crossed my mind as well.

GRRM would have done it. lol

Southlake said:

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Anybody catch that when Tyrion sidled up to Bran that he pushed over a little midget chair to sit down in?

Didn't know Winterfell had those...

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I'm sure there are children's chairs around that place. If peter dinklage stops by our place for a drink....BAM!...kid's chair.

HombreDoce said:

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I feel like the the white walker army is going to to get decimated. Dragon glass is the equivalent of a Halo energy sword or Goldeneye golden gun. The whites don't have armor and die with one hit. How many arrows have the living giants been shot with? How many arrows do the Dragons take during battles? I feel like the 10,000 Unsullied could wipe out the 100,000 whites without any help. Hell, Sam, one of the worst fighters in the show killed a WW with a dagger. Some characters are definitely going to die, but this battle is going to put an end to the white walker threat. The last three episodes will then have all the backstabbing plot twist we have grown to love with a four way for the thrown.

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That's only if they're all outfitted with dragonglass weapons. How many of those weapons have they had time to make?

Champ Bailey said:

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bonfarr said:

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The "Jenny" song they played last night foreshadows the future for Jon and Dany. The song was about the true Targaryen heir to the Iron Throne giving up his seat on the throne for love as he chose a non political marriage. When he gave up his right to the throne the Mad King was next in line.

I am guessing it is Jon that relinquishes his right to the throne.

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So that song is about Aemon, the Night's watch Maester?

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Quote:

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The song is named for Jenny of Oldstones who married Prince Duncan Targaryen after he left his position on the throne; the Mad King Aerys, aka Dany's dad, took the throne in Duncan's place.

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.refinery29.com/amp/en-us/2019/04/230220/jenny-song-from-game-of-thrones-lyrics-meaning-singer

Azariah said:

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HombreDoce said:

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I feel like the the white walker army is going to to get decimated. Dragon glass is the equivalent of a Halo energy sword or Goldeneye golden gun. The whites don't have armor and die with one hit. How many arrows have the living giants been shot with? How many arrows do the Dragons take during battles? I feel like the 10,000 Unsullied could wipe out the 100,000 whites without any help. Hell, Sam, one of the worst fighters in the show killed a WW with a dagger. Some characters are definitely going to die, but this battle is going to put an end to the white walker threat. The last three episodes will then have all the backstabbing plot twist we have grown to love with a four way for the thrown.

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That's only if they're all outfitted with dragonglass weapons. How many of those weapons have they had time to make?

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Also, I remember at Hardhome the NK summoned this death cloud and appeared to have converted the whole town. Is that what happened? Seems like a no brainer to just do the same to Winterfell.

Back to my thought process on John leaving Night Claw behind for a different weapon. Would actually be more poetic if he ended up dual wielding "Oath Keeper" and "Widows Wail" as those were actually forged from "Ice". Or possibly wielding Berricks flame blade and one of the two swords forged from Ice.

I think your "trouble spots" are pretty legit. At the same time I think the writers have an almost impossible task. So many characters that have developed story acrs and personalities are still in play: Dany, Jon, Sandor, Beric, Jorah, Gendry, Varys, Tryion, Missandei, GW, Mel, Davos, Sansa, Bran, Arya, Jamie, Bronn, Cersei, the Mountain, Qyburn, Theon, Yarra, Euron, Brienne, Pod, Edd, Tormund. I am sure I am missing someone. How do you do them all credit with just a six episode season to close it out. It would seem to me to be unprecedented.

Also, we're really down to just two big events. BoW/Nights King and Cersei at KL. How can you make all of these characters fit in, in a meaningful way? I think the answer is you really can't. The writers probably should have thinned the herd last season or at least have Dany leave a contingent behind at Dragonstone just to cut the clutter at Winterfell.