Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Joe Cole said:

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Quote:

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D&D have repeatedly said scenes are not close to concurrent

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that is what I meant by "just a show". I know they have said that and we are supposed to suspend belief, but still some of the things do not line up such as Jon and crew's trip to KL and back and in this entire time, the army of dead has covered about 1/10th of the distance

I guess as a book reader, you really gain an appreciation for how big this world is and how far apart the places are

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I wonder, though. In the time that it took Jon/Dany to go from beyond the Wall to KL, then back to Winterfell, the Army of the Dead has not even made it to Last Hearth.

We know this because Ned Umber is sent there by Jon in this episode, where they play chop suey with him.

If it took them THAT long just to make it to Last Hearth, they're either moving incredibly slowly, or they had already slaughtered everyone at the Last Hearth and were just chilling there for a bit.

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They had to forge the worlds largest chain during that time.

Do you know how hard it is to find a blacksmith white walker? You know they hate heat, right?

Spoiler? Not everyone watches scenes from next weekend.

Robert C. Christian said:

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benchmark said:

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If Dany is a daughter of the Mad King and Jon is a grandson of the Mad King, why is does Sam say Jon is the heir, not Dany? Doesn't she still have the most direct line?

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Male lineage.

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Even if you disregard the male aspect of it, Jon is first in line. Rhaegar was the oldest, and Jon is his only living son.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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When Jon says "I've never ridden a dragon before", I was half expecting Dany to say

"You rode me."

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Oh come on. They don't talk like that on The Bachelor

It was a joke.

DannyDuberstein said:

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What would really be useful is an IED with dragonglass shavings as shrapnel.

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A Claymore mine perhaps?

C@LAg said:

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Orlando Ayala Cant Read said:

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Dual Dragon Ride was Cheese City.

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I was more put off on how bad the dragons were inserted into several of the shots.

Dynamic lighting not adjusted correctly or non-existent, no hair moving in the wind, etc. FX for about half the flight/sequence were sub-quality.

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Still catching up to thread -- actually agree with this.

I thought I was being overly picky but I definitely noticed something felt off here. And it's strange considering how amazing the dragons looked in Season 7, especially in close-up and during the loot train battle.

Ran out of time maybe? Or money.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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When Jon says "I've never ridden a dragon before", I was half expecting Dany to say

"You rode me."

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/bites down on knuckle

Urban Ag said:

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Jon is not the true heir to the throne.

House Targaryen was deposed. No Targaryen has any claim to the throne more legitimate than anyone else.

Robert had no legitimate heir in the form of a son because his children were not his children. And basturds don't count.

From a Westerosi legal/cultural perspective, the actual true legitimate successor to Robert was Stannis.

And all of this is simply academic because when it is all said and done the only true king or queen is the one that has the army that can take the throne and keep it. Just as the Targaryens did. Just as Robert did. Just as Cersei has done. Just as Dany intends to.

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I do keep wondering how/why Dany (and now Jon) can claim to be the true heirs if House Baratheon had the throne.

BUT, considering the "true heirs" are all dead, does it revert back to Targs? ("Legally" speaking.)

So, what happens if Jon and/or Dany decide to legitimize Gendry as a true heir of Robert Baratheon?

Re: Tyrion knowing who Jon is

I doubt it, but something is definitely up with Tyrion. The look on the boat. The stare from Bran. The conversation with Cersei that we didn't see.

We're definitely meant to be suspicious of his current intentions.

Aggie Pharmer said:

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FightinTexasAg15 said:

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redline248 said:

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I do wonder how HBO intends to legitimize Jon in the eyes of the realm. Would the Citadel maesters verify the journal entry? Using Howland Reed at this point seems very unlikely. Would Varys have heard rumors? Seems like the kind of think he'd have acted on sooner if he knew or suspected.

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It's possible that they lose Winterfell in episode 3, and have to retreat back to the Iron Islands as Yara mentioned in the last episode, and on the way there they take refuge in The Neck, where the Reeds reside. Could open an opportunity.

Also possible Sam is still pissed at Dany so she does something to piss him off and he drops the news, or Sansa finds out and does something.

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I don't think they will go to the Iron Islands. I think if they do retreat, they will go to the Vale.

I was re-watching the episodes with my wife, a first-timer, and we watched S4E4 Sunday night. It's when Littlefinger takes Sansa to the Eyrie. They are walking along the path and she asks isn't there another way to get to the Eyrie. Littlefinger says no. That the lords of the Vale didn't have much, but they had the mountains and that 1 defender could have the strength of 10,000 defenders as the only way to approach the Vale is through this narrow valley/pass that only would allow 3 attackers abreast to past through it.

That's my guesstimate...

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I made this exact prediction literally years ago (I think after S7 finale) and got ridiculed for it.

Doesn't sound so crazy now, eh?

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Re: Tyrion knowing who Jon is

I doubt it, but something is definitely up with Tyrion. The look on the boat. The stare from Bran. The conversation with Cersei that we didn't see.

We're definitely meant to be suspicious of his current intentions.

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I think Tyrion remains committed fully to Dany. Much like Varys, and Littlefinger last season, I just don't think the show writers know what to do with these characters. Their usefulness was always "the Game of Thrones" and now that it's the end game (and essentially has been since the end of S6) there just isn't much left for them to do.

I really hope they have big plans for Tyrion, because I hate how he's been sidelined and not nearly as intelligent as he was in early seasons.

The Debt said:

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bobinator said:

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The Debt said:

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I would like to point out that the only people who believe dragonglass kills WWs are in the north.

The rest may have heard it from ravens (or the peace conference) but they certainly arent heading to dragonstone to mine it.

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I'm not sure what you mean here. Cersei and Euron have no reason not to believe it. They may not have tons of it on hand, but they at least know it.

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What was their action? To sail east and hire an army. They arent looking to fight the WWs, they are looking to kill the humans that survive the WWs.

We had three episode arc of Cersie and Qyburn devising methods to kill a dragon, but we havent caught a whiff of Cersei's forces allocating dragonglass.

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This is one thing I don't get. What's their plan if the WWs win? Have they not accounted for the fact that their army would only grow bigger after the BoW, not smaller?

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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I really hope they have big plans for Tyrion, because I hate how he's been sidelined and not nearly as intelligent as he was in early seasons.

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I do too. I hated that the guy that literally engineered the Game of Thrones was reduced to begging on his knees "Shansa pleeeease" before he got his throat slit. And Varys just tithers these days. Hoping for a good ending to Tryion's arc.

Whew. Took a few days, but finally caught up in this thread.

That's what I keep saying! But I just don't see enough time to defeat them and then go fight Cersi either. I feel like they "lose" in Winterfell, retreat and fight again.... but your point is still valid. How can they defeat them the second time with a larger army, if they didn't the first. At this point who knows.

emtes said:

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That's what I keep saying! But I just don't see enough time to defeat them and then go fight Cersi either. I feel like they "lose" in Winterfell, retreat and fight again.... but your point is still valid. How can they defeat them the second time with a larger army, if they didn't the first. At this point who knows.

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the only solution is to burn them all. both the newly dead and the dead-dead.

we've been told burning the freshly dead means they cannot be raised so assuming that works for the dead-dead too. and we don't really know about dragonglass but i'm thinking it's the same that the dead when killed again by dragonglass cannot be raised???? either way....burn 'em to be safe.

ironically this entire thing is because the Mad King wanted to burn them all..... (i know about those theories that he was talking about the dead in a vision...we'll see)......

But now they actually might need to burn them all. And in an act of desperation would "they" (whoever) burn the living and the dead in great numbers just to assure victory???????

Urban Ag said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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I really hope they have big plans for Tyrion, because I hate how he's been sidelined and not nearly as intelligent as he was in early seasons.

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I do too. I hated that the guy that literally engineered the Game of Thrones was reduced to begging on his knees "Shansa pleeeease" before he got his throat slit. And Varys just tithers these days. Hoping for a good ending to Tryion's arc.

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I think that was pretty fitting for Littlefinger. He was trying to scheme right up until those last couple minute when he realized that it was 100% not working and he was boxed in.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Joe Cole said:

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Quote:

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D&D have repeatedly said scenes are not close to concurrent

---

that is what I meant by "just a show". I know they have said that and we are supposed to suspend belief, but still some of the things do not line up such as Jon and crew's trip to KL and back and in this entire time, the army of dead has covered about 1/10th of the distance

I guess as a book reader, you really gain an appreciation for how big this world is and how far apart the places are

---

I wonder, though. In the time that it took Jon/Dany to go from beyond the Wall to KL, then back to Winterfell, the Army of the Dead has not even made it to Last Hearth.

We know this because Ned Umber is sent there by Jon in this episode, where they play chop suey with him.

If it took them THAT long just to make it to Last Hearth, they're either moving incredibly slowly, or they had already slaughtered everyone at the Last Hearth and were just chilling there for a bit.

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Well the Night King army was past Last Hearth at the end of the episode. We don't know exactly where they are right now, though Im guessing the intro is going to show that blue line slowly getting closer and closer to Winterfell each week.

I guess my problem with Littlefinger's demise was that it too obvious, at least to me. I can't believe anyone thought that Sansa would really hold some kangaroo court to go after her own sister who had gone through hell and back to get home to Winterfell.

LF was hated by the lords of the Vail. Hated by Sansa. Sansa didn't trust him, she knew what he was. Brienne hated him. Arya hated him. Bran used Bran-raven-vision to find out he put a knife to Ned's throat. It just seemed to easy, to obvious, and too contrived to me.

I guess you can make the argument that LF sending the Knights of the Vale north to save Jon's butt indebted Sansa to him but as a realist I know that women don't work that away. Sansa used him. And she'd never forget nor forgive that he gave her to the Bolton's so that she could be defiled by Ramsay, over and over again. LF was never going to "get right" with Sansa or the Starks. Ever.

LF maneuvering in KL is believable. LF maneuvering in the Vail is believable. LF manipulating the Stark kids in Winterfell while surrounded by Start allies? Nope.

Which is why LF is alive. Haha.

Of all the theories out there for the last season, I love that in theory, he, like Arya, has a relationship with the faceless assassins. He used this to slip away, even from Bran. Makes sense given his character, origin (Bravos), and resources.

He was out of character last half of season 7. Why? It wasn't him. He was too great of a game player to be caught manipulating Stark children.

I'm perfectly satisfied seeing him dead for the series in S7/lazy writing, because watching him die was greatness. However, how awesome would it be for him to come back after the Battle of Winterfell in some capacity for one last attempt in all this impending chaos.