****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

1,107,176 Views | 14599 Replies | Last: 17 days ago by Urban Ag
Champ Bailey
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He's just trolling at this point.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Shife
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Champ Bailey said:

He's just trolling at this point.
this. I bet a lot of it was ghost written by the folks that run Westeros.org.
Chipotlemonger
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Quote:

Oh, and I should also say as most of you know, HBO is presently developing a number of different prequels to GAME OF THRONES. I know I am going to be asked whether those shows are going to be based on material from FIRE & BLOOD. It's a logical question. The only answer I can give is ah, well, no one is sure yet, and anyway, I am not allowed to say. So let's move that to the side.
Quote from his blog
Brian Earl Spilner
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SeattleAgJr
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Damn. No book six this year as well. He needs a writing partner to help focus.
Dr. Watson
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I think he's written himself into a corner and has no idea how to get out.
SeattleAgJr
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Dr. Watson said:

I think he's written himself into a corner and has no idea how to get out.
I doubt it is a story corner so much as he cannot decide on how best to proceed and get everything to align time/place with the amount of runway he has left. the story is there, but aligning it would require some story lines to need to be front and center (Mereen, etc) while wholly neglecting others for a book or two.

the TV show was able to get away with a lot of it the last two seasons with its super-magical instantaneous cross-continent travel, but he does not have that luxury.

assuming the book story hits most of the major beats of the TV story, he sadly needs a third book to get through what he needs to with the characters that are still around.

like may others, I am assuming the tv show ending is canon and moving on once season 8 completes.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Agreed... I just think it is almost too massive. It has to be overwhelming at this point.

He was able to go back 300 years and churn out 1000 pages because that is what he is good at - world building.

Inspector Spacetime
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That's a bit of a bummer, but I have zero expectations for the Winds of Winter release date at this point, so I guess I'm not that disappointed. I agree that he may have bitten off more than he can chew, so long as his attention remains divided.

However, if he has to write other books than something from ASOIAF, I'm very glad this is one of them. I'm extremely excited to pick this up in November.
DB Coach
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I'm not a reader of the book series. Are they worth the time given that there seems to be no end in sight for the series?
redline248
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Good question. If I had known that Martin is unlikely to ever finish the series, I might not have started reading. The books are good, but still...
Chipotlemonger
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Is there anything set up for someone to take over the finish a la Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson?

That was a slightly differnet case I know, but still curious.
redline248
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I think it has been documented that Martin has said "no."
Chipotlemonger
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redline248 said:

I think it has been documented that Martin has said "no."
Well that blows.
SeattleAgJr
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DB Coach said:

I'm not a reader of the book series. Are they worth the time given that there seems to be no end in sight for the series?
no.

he loses a lot of focus in the later books by adding too many extraneous characters as well as descritpions of what people are eating.
plus there are significant enough differences between the books and the TV you may as well stick with the TV show fgor now until (if) he ever finishes the series.
Urban Ag
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A Song of Ice and Fire went from a planned three books to a planned five books. Keep in mind that the first three were published between 1996 and 2000. The third book, A Storm of Swords, was considering his best work and it truly advanced the story and closed arcs and sub plots.

It then took him 11 years to get the next two volumes published. And in doing so, he added so many new characters and arcs that he just completely blew the story out and declared it would take him an additional two books to finish it and those books would be in the 1500 page realm.

I don't think he has written himself in to a corner so much as he doesn't have the energy or focus to finish it out at the level of quality he demands of himself. It used to really bother me but I have just come to accept it we'll probably never even see The Winds of Winter in print. I think one thing that HBO has done well is taking a very thorough look at the book materials that were available and what info GRRM was able to provide them on how he envisioned the story ending, and then they omitted or combined as many character and arcs as they could to make the series manageable. A good rule of thumb for the HBO series is that if the character or arc was not included, it was deemed a GRRM rabbit hole, and was avoided.
Zombie Jon Snow
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It was always the story of Starks, Targaryens and Lannisters.

The rest is all window dressing including the zombie ice army of the dead.

He just needs to narrow the focus like the show did. Clean up loose ends and move to those central figures and conflicts.

From the first time I read the first book I believed it was that and even more specifically the story of Jon, Dany and Tyrion - the three most unlikely underdogs (******* or so we thought, woman exiled, and dwarf freak). Everyone else is either an antagonist, a support person for them, or a mutual threat.

Inspector Spacetime
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DB Coach said:

I'm not a reader of the book series. Are they worth the time given that there seems to be no end in sight for the series?
I agree with all the things people have replied with regarding plot holes, extra characters, etc.


I still think you should read them.

At the very least, books 1-3 will be extremely satisfying to see how they compare to the show. Season 1 and book 1 are nearly the same, book two and season 2 start to diverge some, but I'd say the Red Wedding alone is worth reading book 3.

I also highly recommend A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, or what used to be known as "The Tales of Dunk and Egg." If you recall Joffrey pointing in the HoF book of the Kingsguard at the achievements of Ser Duncan the Tall, and how he had accomplished so much, this book is basically a collection of origin stories of Ser Duncan "Dunk" and Maester Aemon's younger brother, Aegon "Egg," long before he became King Aegon V Targaryen, "the Unlikely." I think they're awesome stories and will probably get you hyped for the Targaryen histories coming out, as the stories come from a time when they were still in power and feature many Targ princes.
PatAg
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Books are better than the show.
Dr. Watson
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PatAg said:

Books are better than the show.


Meh.
Chipotlemonger
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PatAg said:

Books are better than the show.


I don't agree with this. If anything, they are on par with one another at points, and the show edges the books out on a few other points.

(Note: this may be biased some by when one reads vs. watches the story in relation to one another and many other parameters).
lne2011
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PatAg said:

Books are better than the show.


First 3 books*
M.C. Swag
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Chipotlemonger said:

PatAg said:

Books are better than the show.


I don't agree with this. If anything, they are on par with one another at points, and the show edges the books out on a few other points.

(Note: this may be biased some by when one reads vs. watches the story in relation to one another and many other parameters).


The biggest payoff diff (for me) between the books and show was the Battle at Blackwater bay in the third book. GRRM does a masterful job of building up that battle and cloaks Tyrions preparations throughout from the reader (if you recall he gets the wildfyre to burn all of stannis' ships). The fire part happens pretty much exactly the same as the show but the hidden genius that the show didn't capture was when Tyrian slowly constructed the iron net. (Basically Tyrian, as acting hand, went around gathering every piece of small aluminum and we as the reader didn't know why. It wasn't until Stannis attacked and Tyrian lit the bay with wildfire that we found out. "Raise it" he commands and a giant metal net rises from the depth to trap the ships from escaping.) I just had one of this "*****ya" moments reading it.
Dr. Watson
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Conversely, I actually feel like the Red Wedding in the show is a thousand times better and more impactful than in the book. It was a big moment in the book, but the show gave it an imagery and pathos that I didn't get from the book while keeping it a major surprise.
BigTimeAlum
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The books have suffered from GRRM's inability to finish. Supporters have gotten jaded, so crapping on them has become cool. They are great books. The show is also great.

As with most translations, the books are better. We have just never seen if he can wrap up the loose ends like the show has been able to do, so he has made their quality an easy target.
The Dog Lord
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As others have mentioned, the writing process and his standards for himself are the issues. He has had the main story points planned since the beginning but makes other parts up as he goes. He originally jumped forward in time but felt the references or flashbacks he needed to include for context were too confusing. He then had to go back and write the 4th/5th books instead which is why they took so long. I think they have then thrown of WoW.

While some parts of the 4th and 5th books are dull (Brienne's "quest"), I didn't mind others (Aegon, Victarion, etc.). Dorne is one of the best parts to me since you find out there is another Littlefinger/Varys-type player in the game. I don't even mind Quentin's story. The truth is we don't know what the impact of some storylines will be. Yes, we know that Aegon likely won't come out on top in the end since he isn't in the show, but that doesn't mean his story won't matter to the overall plot for the books. The show ignores issues with the Dance of the Dragons, Blackfyre Rebellion, etc. which give background to what may be going on with Aegon (really a Bkackfyre?).

Oh and Euron is WAY weirder in the books. Hell, even the maesters and the Citadel are cooler in the books, although show Sam is one of the best characters while book Sam is usually a whingey *****. Last but not least, the book actually has wolves.
Shife
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Looking forward to some of the mysteries getting fleshed out like dany's dragon eggs (and the whitewalls eggs), the full Targaryen family tree and hopefully the full summerhall story.

I don't think fire and blood will be a total loss, but it's still very disappointing. Best we can hope for is Easter eggs in Fire and Blood relevant to the rest of the story, sort of like the hints dropped in the Rogue Prince and the Princess and the Queen about dragons being ridden by people who weren't full blooded Targaryens.
Swarely
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Have we seen an ice spider yet? I don't remember one, but I guess I could be wrong.
redline248
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In the show? No. We got a zombie polar bear, though.
CapCityAg89
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If you're just a fan of the show, don't read the books. If you're a fan of fantasy and fantasy writing (world building), it is absolutely must read. GRRM is an arrogant dick BUT the dude can flat write fantasy.
Shife
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Wikipedia lists the contents of Fire and Blood Part 1 as a being largely rehashed content already published, so no critical stuff probably until Book 2
Quote:

Thus far, the first volume of Fire and Blood is known to contain the following texts:
  • The Targaryen Conquest: Aegon I Targaryen's conquest of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_Blood_(book)#cite_note-youtube-8][8][/url]
  • The Peace of the Dragon: Aegon I's reign after his Conquest.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_Blood_(book)#cite_note-9][9][/url][better source needed] While Aegon I's reign is briefly glossed over in The World of Ice & Fire, no parts of the text have yet been published.
  • The Sons of the Dragon:[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_Blood_(book)#cite_note-history-10][10][/url] Focuses on the lives of Aegon I's sons, King Aenys I Targaryen and King Maegor I Targaryen, ending with Maegor's death and the ascension of Aenys's son Jaehaerys I Targaryen to the throne. An abridged version of The Sons of the Dragon was released in October 2017 titled The Sons of the Dragon in the anthology The Book of Swords.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_Blood_(book)#cite_note-history-10][10][/url]
  • Heirs of the Dragon: Being about 17,000 words long, it focuses on the reign of Jaehaerys I Targaryen and the succession crisis following the deaths of his sons. An abridged version, The Rogue Prince, previously published in the anthology Rogues in 2014, uses the majority of this text.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_Blood_(book)#cite_note-reddit-11][11][/url]
  • The Dying of the Dragons: Being about 60,000 words in length,[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_Blood_(book)#cite_note-reddit-11][11][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_Blood_(book)#cite_note-12][N 1][/url] it focuses on the great civil war known as the Dance of the Dragons. An abridged version of 30,000 words was included in The Princess and the Queen,[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_Blood_(book)#cite_note-PQ-4][4][/url] which was published in the anthology Dangerous Women in 2013.
  • Aftermath The Boy King and His Regents: Covering the first few years of the reign of Rhaenyra's young son Aegon III, when the realm was ruled by Aegon's regents. According to Elio Garcia, it is "almost as long" as The Dying of the Dragons in total word count.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_Blood_(book)#cite_note-reddit-11][11][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_Blood_(book)#cite_note-youtube-8][8][/url]
Fire and Blood will be illustrated in a similar fashion as A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. According to Martin, the book is set to contain more than seventy-five black & white illustrations by Doug Wheatley.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_Blood_(book)#cite_note-13][12][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_Blood_(book)#cite_note-date-1][1][/url]
Goose06
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Rewatching from the beginning and I'm just wondering, why did Cersei even car that Tyrion was taken into custody by catelyn stark? I guess it made the lannisters look bad but they were happy to frame him later for killing Joffrey.
SeattleAgJr
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At least for the TV show, it was about making the Lannisters look weak. Not a book reader but I would assume that's a lot more to it than that.
SeattleAgJr
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And pages and pages of recipes so that you can make the dinners that he spends pages and pages describing
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