****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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Brian Earl Spilner
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Quote:

The penultimate episode of "Game of Thrones," titled "The Bells," has posted the highest initial viewing rating in series history.

The episode was watched by 12.48 million viewers, which handily trumps the previous record of 12.07 million, held by the season seven finale.

HBO will reveal multi-platform viewership for Sunday's episode later today, but given the initial figures, it's highly likely that "The Bells" will be the most-watched "Thrones" episode of all time across all platforms (linear, HBOGO and HBO NOW). The figure it has to beat is 17.8 million viewers, which was posted by episode three, "The Long Night." The previous gross audience high was 17.4 million viewers for the premiere episode of season 8, titled "Winterfell," which has since surpassed 38 million viewers, according to HBO.
Zombie Jon Snow
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bobinator said:

I know we're beating the horse on this side, but cbr is still making arguments on the other side so I'm sorry that you're over it but some of us are still enjoying discussing it?

I'd enjoy it too - if either side offered anything new - it's the same argument.

fair enough to call out those debating you/all from the other side though too.

bobinator
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I think the problem 'we' have (we since there are other people on my side although some of them are off the deep end) is that we knew this tragic moment was coming for this character, but it didn't feel tragic, it just felt evil.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Quote:

The penultimate episode of "Game of Thrones," titled "The Bells," has posted the highest initial viewing rating in series history.

The episode was watched by 12.48 million viewers, which handily trumps the previous record of 12.07 million, held by the season seven finale.

HBO will reveal multi-platform viewership for Sunday's episode later today, but given the initial figures, it's highly likely that "The Bells" will be the most-watched "Thrones" episode of all time across all platforms (linear, HBOGO and HBO NOW). The figure it has to beat is 17.8 million viewers, which was posted by episode three, "The Long Night." The previous gross audience high was 17.4 million viewers for the premiere episode of season 8, titled "Winterfell," which has since surpassed 38 million viewers, according to HBO.


Controversy sells....... the FINALE will be HUGE!!!!!!!!
Zombie Jon Snow
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bobinator said:

I think the problem 'we' have (we since there are other people on my side although some of them are off the deep end) is that we knew this tragic moment was coming for this character, but it didn't feel tragic, it just felt evil.
fair. and even i think it is evil - but i loved it.

maybe i do need a psychiatrist. lol
Brian Earl Spilner
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Quote:

The penultimate episode of "Game of Thrones," titled "The Bells," has posted the highest initial viewing rating in series history.

The episode was watched by 12.48 million viewers, which handily trumps the previous record of 12.07 million, held by the season seven finale.

HBO will reveal multi-platform viewership for Sunday's episode later today, but given the initial figures, it's highly likely that "The Bells" will be the most-watched "Thrones" episode of all time across all platforms (linear, HBOGO and HBO NOW). The figure it has to beat is 17.8 million viewers, which was posted by episode three, "The Long Night." The previous gross audience high was 17.4 million viewers for the premiere episode of season 8, titled "Winterfell," which has since surpassed 38 million viewers, according to HBO.


Controversy sells....... the FINALE will be HUGE!!!!!!!!
TCTTS
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Really good thread...

Fenrir
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You hang on to debates just as much as anybody. It's pretty hypocritical to try and tell people what to discuss when you went back and forth in a ****fit with atmag for multiple pages.
Urban Ag
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smokeythebear said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

smokeythebear said:

Again, I'm not disappointed that Dany went one a rager. I'm just HINGLY disappointed about how they wrote it out. If you told me Cersei beheaded Missande and Dany turned around, hopped on Drogon, and burned the ****ing place to the ground, I'd 100% believe it.

She was mad at Cersei. Once she killed Cersei, then she could have a moment where she saw that the people didn't love her but only feared her, so she then turns full Anakin and we see real rage build up inside of her. Then I would get it. But we didn't see any hot-headed rage. We saw cold-blooded, calculated, tactical city destruction while purposefully leaving her true enemy untouched and allowing her an opportunity to escape.

Sorry, that just doesn't make sense. Why the F would Dany not go straight to the Red Keep once the scorpions were destroyed?

Boy you guys can sure beat a dead horse.....3 days later same issue.

You aren't going to get an answer. Not one you buy anyway. Move along.
I can still get an answer. There's one episode left. I'm hoping they give her a proper Darth Vader type introduction. Show her complete transformation into blood-thirsty conqueror. Jon is dead to her, Tyrion is dead to her, Greyworm is her only ally and he won't let ANYONE get close to her again. If they have her going full tilt, then there's no way she is stopped in the Finale.

Except that we now know that's predictable so of course she will be stopped because the producers found something else to OP this week.
This is my take. Dany's anger, rage, and resentment lead her to the conclusion that in order to truly break the wheel, you had to completely destroy the wheel. She could kill the Lannisters and their forces but the wheel would continue to turn. She sees that first hand with her own people already working against her and those she sacrificed greatly for. The wheel just keeps turning. As long as there remains an Iron Throne, a Red Keep, a Kings Landing, the wheel keeps turning, nothing really changes. So in a moment of despotic clarity she comes to the horrific conclusion that she must wipe away the physical embodiment of the wheel (Iron Throne/Kings Landing) completely to truly end the game and create her new world.

Whatever it takes
bobinator
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Yeah, I mean what we got was Anakin Skywalker killing the younglings, but without the moment he stopped Mace from killing Sidious.

We didn't see her take one small step over the line and then descend into madness, which would have been a really tragic moment for her character, and one that I think given the actors on this show could have been one of the great moments in TV history.

That's part of the problem for me. The small step where she finally went too far, where it's clear that her obsession/rage/etc have all combined into a singular focus that has made her what she claimed to destroy could have been such a tremendously tragic moment. And then from that moment she just descends further and further...

But we didn't really get that moment which is part of the whole thing for me. I feel like they had all the pieces there for one of the great heel turns in tv/movie history and she just skipped from 0 to 100.
smokeythebear
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I just realized the whole Bronn assassination mission was purely made up by HBO for the purpose of getting Bronn's actor away from Cersei's actress. When Jaime left, Bronn was the defacto leader of the Lannister forces so he would have been there with Euron and Cersei when the Golden Company showed up and on the wall during Missande's execution.

Point is, there won't be any payoff with regards to Bronn's deal with Tyrion. Just like there was no payoff with regards to Euron's fake baby. Just another loose end that I think we can effectively ignore now.
bobinator
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Ha, I made the Robespierre comparison to my wife but I've been listening to the French Revolution series of the 'Revolutions' podcast.
chase128
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That dragon was missing half its face so it's possible it's fire blast wasn't as powerful.
bangobango
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

smokeythebear said:

Again, I'm not disappointed that Dany went one a rager. I'm just HINGLY disappointed about how they wrote it out. If you told me Cersei beheaded Missande and Dany turned around, hopped on Drogon, and burned the ****ing place to the ground, I'd 100% believe it.

She was mad at Cersei. Once she killed Cersei, then she could have a moment where she saw that the people didn't love her but only feared her, so she then turns full Anakin and we see real rage build up inside of her. Then I would get it. But we didn't see any hot-headed rage. We saw cold-blooded, calculated, tactical city destruction while purposefully leaving her true enemy untouched and allowing her an opportunity to escape.

Sorry, that just doesn't make sense. Why the F would Dany not go straight to the Red Keep once the scorpions were destroyed?

Boy you guys can sure beat a dead horse.....3 days later same issue.

You aren't going to get an answer. Not one you buy anyway. Move along.




Lol.

Coming from the guy responding to literally every single negative post and even posting spreadsheets on this stuff.

Really?!
StringerBell
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clinker03 said:

StringerBell said:

yeah tyrion has to have some resolution. no way he survives the consequences of letting jamie bounce.
Are we thinking public execution? You have to think that if Dany has him in her possession (assuming he doesn't escape somehow) he will get torched right?

"The next time you fail me will be the last time"
has to be something like that.

cant remember the exact dialogue but jamie says "you know you'll hang for this" and tyrion replies "well if dany is able to show mercy to the citizens then maybe she'll show mercy to a poor dwarf"

saw that last night on the rewatch and i was like

bobinator
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The only way Tyrion doesn't die is if someone kills Dany first. He knew it was a suicide mission to free Jamie.
Bunk Moreland
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Good post. I said as much (without Lenin and Robespierre) probably 20 pages back at this point. It just didn't make sense and there were zero stakes for her to make that decision when she did (which DB confirmed in the after-the-show).

Hard to just 'accept' that and be ok cuz #GoT and ZOMG Cleaganebowl! when the entire show led to something and they butchered the turn so badly.
cbr
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bobinator said:

I think the problem 'we' have (we since there are other people on my side although some of them are off the deep end) is that we knew this tragic moment was coming for this character, but it didn't feel tragic, it just felt evil.
they wanted it to feel evil. the game is evil, forces evil....
smokeythebear
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bobinator said:

Yeah, I mean what we got was Anakin Skywalker killing the younglings, but without the moment he stopped Mace from killing Sidious.

We didn't see her take one small step over the line and then descend into madness, which would have been a really tragic moment for her character, and one that I think given the actors on this show could have been one of the great moments in TV history.

That's part of the problem for me. The small step where she finally went too far, where it's clear that her obsession/rage/etc have all combined into a singular focus that has made her what she claimed to destroy could have been such a tremendously tragic moment. And then from that moment she just descends further and further...

But we didn't really get that moment which is part of the whole thing for me. I feel like they had all the pieces there for one of the great heel turns in tv/movie history and she just skipped from 0 to 100.
EXACTLY!!!

I mean, Jesus, that heel turn was the culmination of THREE MOVIES! This one is supposed to be the culmination of 8 SEASONS! Yet we get one quick pouty face while the bells ring and no "tragedy", just out of place cold-blooded murder. If they want us to know she went Mad Queen, THEN SHOW US HER EMOTIONS!

Another good example would be Jean Grey. She goes full on uncontrollable rage mode too, but they have to SHOW us that's what happening to her. You give her a reason and then you get the payoff of her trying to fight it and still succumbing to the phoenix inside. Instead, D&D show Arya running through rubble. I don't give a **** about Arya's emotions watching the city fall apart. Show me the emotions of the mass murderer who is currently blowing up the city with a ****ing dragon!
bobinator
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I understand what you're saying, and it was always going to feel evil in the end. But it could have felt tragic/heartbreaking/etc first.
Furlock Bones
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smokeythebear said:


EXACTLY!!!

I mean, Jesus, that heel turn was the culmination of THREE MOVIES! This one is supposed to be the culmination of 8 SEASONS! Yet we get one quick pouty face while the bells ring and no "tragedy", just out of place cold-blooded murder. If they want us to know she went Mad Queen, THEN SHOW US HER EMOTIONS!

Another good example would be Jean Grey. She goes full on uncontrollable rage mode too, but they have to SHOW us that's what happening to her. You give her a reason and then you get the payoff of her trying to fight it and still succumbing to the phoenix inside. Instead, D&D show Arya running through rubble. I don't give a **** about Arya's emotions watching the city fall apart. Show me the emotions of the mass murderer who is currently blowing up the city with a ****ing dragon!
well, that's going to be tough. Emilia Clarke's emotional range is close to binary.
StringerBell
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are you sure we didnt see it? in my mind we did see it it was just sped up

saw it when she folks fawned over jon at the post winterfel battle banquet

saw it when she kind of cracked telling jon to deny his past

saw it at the beginning of the last episode where she hadnt eaten and looked like crap

saw it on her face when the bells started ringing

dont get me wrong i woudl have liked the turn to have happened over the coruse of 4-5 episodes to get more depth but i think we did see a shift in her emotional well being
Brian Earl Spilner
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Say what you will about the episode, but the score was on point.
cbr
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take said:

takes a special person to TLDR a post on a 354 page thread.


cbr
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bobinator said:

I understand what you're saying, and it was always going to feel evil in the end. But it could have felt tragic/heartbreaking/etc first.
i was heartbroken, cause i have a thing for platinum blondes.
Urban Ag
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StringerBell said:

are you sure we didnt see it? in my mind we did see it it was just sped up

saw it when she folks fawned over jon at the post winterfel battle banquet

saw it when she kind of cracked telling jon to deny his past

saw it at the beginning of the last episode where she hadnt eaten and looked like crap

saw it on her face when the bells started ringing

dont get me wrong i woudl have liked the turn to have happened over the coruse of 4-5 episodes to get more depth but i think we did see a shift in her emotional well being
Also shown in the anger in her face when Rhaegal was killed and when Missy was killed. When she threatened Tyrion with death if he made another mistake. Varys got it enough that he committed actual treason and was willing to pay the price. Tyrion got it enough that he released Jamie on his promise to persuade Cersei to leave the city to save lives, and is willing to pay the price for it.

I think plenty of posters on both sides of the coin have stated neither side is going to convince the other at this point. From my perspective, the build up to the turn was there. To others, not so much. That's fine.
Whatever it takes
cbr
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i suggest you go back and re-watch the series, especially key episodes. i just picked up on a lot of this subtlety. in hindsight, this was a tragedy playing out the whole time, with huge billboards lighting the way to the crying room.
The Debt
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What they should have done is have drogon fly to the red keep's overlook, then flaps in place. Dany sees Cercie....and the head of Missandei on the rail of the balcony. Drogon, intelligent, explodes the balcony. Dany goes full out rager. City gets burned.

Then you have supershreddar on fire coming out of the red keep, what's that? The hound finds him is fkin terrified by him and fights him in hatred. Somehow he decapitates his brother.

If they need to kill off the Hound anyway....use drogon in friendly fire or they go Omar(Wire) and have some meddling swordsman take him down because the drops his sword after he completes his mission in life.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Fenrir said:

You hang on to debates just as much as anybody. It's pretty hypocritical to try and tell people what to discuss when you went back and forth in a ****fit with atmag for multiple pages.

^yes......and others not just him .... but yesterday. it's over.






cbr
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cbr said:

bobinator said:

I understand what you're saying, and it was always going to feel evil in the end. But it could have felt tragic/heartbreaking/etc first.
i was heartbroken, cause i have a thing for platinum blondes.
in all seriousness, i dont know what you could do with it but expand the jon rejection scene and show her torn up about it alone later.

her looks in the keep as tyrion tells her what she already knew i thought did that sufficiently, and then again on the dragon making the fateful decision.
PascalsWager
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I wonder how many people who think this was an earned heel turn have read the books. Because those that have see to wholly defend it.
Zombie Jon Snow
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bangobango said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

smokeythebear said:

Again, I'm not disappointed that Dany went one a rager. I'm just HINGLY disappointed about how they wrote it out. If you told me Cersei beheaded Missande and Dany turned around, hopped on Drogon, and burned the ****ing place to the ground, I'd 100% believe it.

She was mad at Cersei. Once she killed Cersei, then she could have a moment where she saw that the people didn't love her but only feared her, so she then turns full Anakin and we see real rage build up inside of her. Then I would get it. But we didn't see any hot-headed rage. We saw cold-blooded, calculated, tactical city destruction while purposefully leaving her true enemy untouched and allowing her an opportunity to escape.

Sorry, that just doesn't make sense. Why the F would Dany not go straight to the Red Keep once the scorpions were destroyed?

Boy you guys can sure beat a dead horse.....3 days later same issue.

You aren't going to get an answer. Not one you buy anyway. Move along.




Lol.

Coming from the guy responding to literally every single negative post and even posting spreadsheets on this stuff.

Really?!

Nope. Haven't responded to THAT debate in quite a while in fact I said it has been repetitive and nothing new since first thing this morning. and that there is no convincing either side at this point.

that's why it is a dead horse now. on BOTH sides.

https://texags.com/forums/13/topics/2877532/replies/54245234


the poll is merely to gauge if it was more or less positives. curiosity.

i've had a few responses to naysayers today of "fair" and not much else. that's their point of view. i get it. i just thought we all get it now.
bobinator
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There's a lot of ways they could have done it.

I mean, even in your description, if she's decided the people themselves are her enemy, then let's see that play out on screen.

In that scene with Grey Worm, he could have brought up the plan that if they hear the bells that means the city has surrendered.

Dany could have said something like 'the bells won't ring.'
Grey worm says something like 'hopefully they will, and the war will finally be over.'
And Dany could have said 'They wont. And the war will never be over.'

That would have at least set the stage for her not wanting the bells to ring, and so when they did ring ignoring them.
AustinAg2K
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Bunk Moreland said:

Good post. I said as much (without Lenin and Robespierre) probably 20 pages back at this point. It just didn't make sense and there were zero stakes for her to make that decision when she did (which DB confirmed in the after-the-show).

Hard to just 'accept' that and be ok cuz #GoT and ZOMG Cleaganebowl! when the entire show led to something and they butchered the turn so badly.
Compare Dany's decision to her dad, The Mad King. He decided to burn down King's Landing after Tywin Lannister turned on him and began to sack the city. It wasn't just a, "Let's watch people burn." It was more of a, "If I can't have the city, no one can." Dany had just won. Her decision is definitely, a "Let's watch people burn." She is not a tragic character. She is a blood thirsty homicidal maniac. That is a major change which wasn't well scripted.

Also, for everyone bringing up times where she did something ruthless, or had some quote about burning a city to the ground, there are just as many times where she saved someone from being raped, or said she wasn't going to burn everything. There are 70 episodes, and she said a lot of stuff. You can pick quotes out to support any position.
AustinAg2K
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Outside of Grey Worm, who also seemed a little blood thirsty, I don't see how any of her advisers support her now. If Jon gets within 3 feet of her and doesn't snap her neck, or take her head off, this show is dumb. There would be no point to try and reason with her now. Davos will clearly not support her. Tyrion is already out. Who will be left on her side?
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