****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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OldShadeOfBlue
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M.C. Swag said:

The Trouble Spots:
  • I know the common sentiment online and twitter is that this episode was 60 minutes of brilliance and anyone who thinks it comes up anywhere shy of that mark is a 'hater' but I'm in that minority. There were too many scenes that seemed aimless. The most egregious of which was the discussion between Sansa and Dany. I understand the show runners are trying to exemplify the growing strife between the 2 female leaders but that's already abundantly clear. Having Sansa (who continues to irk me) go after Dany about what COULD happen after 2 massive conflicts is akin to worrying about what 401k investment vehicle is best for a 21 yr old, unemployed, college dropout. There are BIGGER FISH TO FRY SANSA. That scene was irritating.

Sansa has been through this song and dance before. To her and the rest of the north they are adamant about not being ruled over again, especially by a foreign ruler. The whole scene was to show that at least Dany is trying to make it work, and it almost works out until the issue of rule comes up again. I think it was great to help drive the fact that there will be conflict left to resolve for Dany after the WW are defeated. And it will be up to Dany to decide what happens as the Starks refuse to be ruled over.
Quote:

Sansa rushing to hug Theon was another head scratcher for me. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but was Sansa giving Theon love eyes? How did her affection for Theon seemingly sprout out of nowhere and what exactly did he do to earn it? (Yes, I understand he 'rescued' her from Ramsay, but that was after a countless string of atrocities he committed against the Stark family). It just seemed like she warped drived from loathing scorn to brotherly (or possibly more?) love for Theon. Of all the characters I'd expect to be hugged by 'the smartest person ever', I thought it'd be the Hound. My guy needs some more recognition.
Sansa hated Theon until he revealed he didn't murder Bran and Rickon. Then Theon saved Sansa from the Boltons. Then Theon left his sister and the Greyjoys to fight for her and Winterfell. He finally chose the Starks. That is plenty reason for me to be cool with Sansa developing googly eyes for Theon.

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  • Tyrion sitting down with Bran had allllll kinds of potential. Tyrion could literally discuss ANY event from the HISTORY of westeros and instead of listening to that conversation, we just had to hear about Missandei and Greyworm's vacation plans. That was a wasted moment.

Agree completely. I almost feel like their scene got cut as what was the point of them sitting down together in the first place?
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  • The amount of time (or lack thereof) dedicated to Jon and the ramifications of his parentage are a continuous struggle for me. 2 episodes in a row (when Jon learns from Sam and when Jon talks with Dany) the showrunners decide that the best time to squeeze that crucial information in is at the end of an episode with hardly an effort to re-examine it later. Both conversations lasted the span of 2 minutes. That's simply not enough. Jon went from hearing who his parents are to telling Dany "my name is Aegon Targaryen" in what appeared to the audience as a single night of mulling it over.

  • My biggest gripe of all is also the hardest to describe. I love this show and I love so many of these characters (Tyrion being my all time #1) but I feel like the dialogue written for them was done by a Freshman English major. Almost EVERY conversation starts with a 'remember when' or 'the last time we met'...the nuance or complexity is gone. Everything feels so obvious and shallow. For those Star Wars fans, this reminds me somewhat of 'The Force Awakens' and how a lot of criticism was heaped on it for using nostalgia as a crutch. I feel like this season so far is relying on our love of the characters from seasons past as this crutch and using that nostalgia as the vehicle for 'checking the box' on character meet ups (A perfect example of this; Tyrion's reunion with Jamie and his quote about 'dying with a belly full of wine.'). I went to look at the writer for these episodes and couldn't help but notice that Ep. 1 & 2 were written by two different people who aren't Benioff & Weiss.

Agree with this as well. It has been clear since season 6 when they passed the books that they are great producers but not great writers. We haven't had a genuinely surprising Game of Thrones type moment the last couple of seasons. These last two episodes have been filled with paying homage to itself with a callback to earlier seasons at almost every scene. It's very similar to what the Force Awakens was doing with the previous Star Wars lore.

I also feel like they don't know what to do with certain characters like Tyrion and Varys, who were key players in the first 6 seasons. They were two of the most clever minds in the show and now those minds are virtually non-existent. Even Bran's abilities are being wasted. His power of Greensight is being used to push the plot forward for Jon's true identity and not much else. I'm worried the showrunners aren't going to truly utilize Bran's character potential along with others.
OldShadeOfBlue
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suburban cowboy said:

Are we glossing over Bran's warg'ing ability? Two x-factors for Team Human are that and Melisandre in my opinion.

Bran could warg into a dragon, theoretically. And Melisandre could be stabbed in the heart by a Valyrian steel blade, unleashing the fire/light from within her to the Prince that was promised (my bet is Jon but I'm not counting out Jamie).

I just don't know what the point of Bran warging into a dragon is since Jon and Dany can already control them. The dragons even seem to be able to tell which side they're fighting for on their own when Dany is on the ground.
Brian Earl Spilner
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FIDO95 said:

gigemJTH12 said:

I think there is a reason why we didn't get the full convo between Bran and Tyrion. And we will find out later why. Only reason that epic(sorry to use that word) convo would have been glossed over.


I'm certain they shared a laugh about the time Tyrion took a donkey and a honeycomb into the brothel. Nobody else seems to know what the hell happened and that is the only thing in this story I really need resolved.
Tyrion's wife had 3 wishes.

Her first wish was a home fit for a queen.

Her second wish was for a great ass.

Her third wish was that Tyrion's cock went past his knees.
BenFiasco14
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Urban Ag said:

I would like a very brief scene where the two dragons are side by side roaring at the army of the dead and Ghost walks up between them and bears his teeth and growls. The symbolism alone would be epic.
That gave me nerd chills.
Feel like this is gonna be half the thread watching next week's episode:

CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
jtstanley4621
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The Dog Lord said:

jtstanley4621 said:

Anyone else wondering if a wolf army is gonna show up led by Nymeria to help up against the Night King? I think that would be cool as hell.

I've said all along that this better happen. If not then, it could be in a battle in/near King's Landing I guess. Too bad they weren't making dragonglass crowns to go over their canines.
Dragonglass grills made by Johnny Dang
Furlock Bones
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OldShadeOfBlue said:




Agree with this as well. It has been clear since season 6 when they passed the books that they are great producers but not great writers. We haven't had a genuinely surprising Game of Thrones type moment the last couple of seasons. These last two episodes have been filled with paying homage to itself with a callback to earlier seasons at almost every scene. It's very similar to what the Force Awakens was doing with the previous Star Wars lore.

I also feel like they don't know what to do with certain characters like Tyrion and Varys, who were key players in the first 6 seasons. They were two of the most clever minds in the show and now those minds are virtually non-existent.
Even Bran's abilities are being wasted. His power of Greensight is being used to push the plot forward for Jon's true identity and not much else. I'm worried the showrunners aren't going to truly utilize Bran's character potential along with others.
yep. you nailed it.
PatAg
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As annoying as it has been the past few seasons, I'm hoping they just don't have CGI for Ghost in this battle so he can survive it.
Joseph Parrish
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They haven't done much at all recently to make Bran look 'powerful.' It's been a while.
M.C. Swag
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

M.C. Swag said:

Urban Ag said:

I think your "trouble spots" are pretty legit. At the same time I think the writers have an almost impossible task. So many characters that have developed story acrs and personalities are still in play: Dany, Jon, Sandor, Beric, Jorah, Gendry, Varys, Tryion, Missandei, GW, Mel, Davos, Sansa, Bran, Arya, Jamie, Bronn, Cersei, the Mountain, Qyburn, Theon, Yarra, Euron, Brienne, Pod, Edd, Tormund. I am sure I am missing someone. How do you do them all credit with just a six episode season to close it out. It would seem to me to be unprecedented.

Also, we're really down to just two big events. BoW/Nights King and Cersei at KL. How can you make all of these characters fit in, in a meaningful way? I think the answer is you really can't. The writers probably should have thinned the herd last season or at least have Dany leave a contingent behind at Dragonstone just to cut the clutter at Winterfell.
I agree there just isn't enough time...which is 100% on HBO. No one is forcing these timelines on them. The fans would wait another 10 years for this story to conclude and I know I'd be more than willing to pay a 20% game of thrones tax if they needed a bigger budget. As to your question, 'how do you give all those characters proper due in 6 episdoes?' You can't. It's not possible. If we're really going to stick to a 6 episode finale season, I'd be ok if Missandie and Greyworm get thrown to the side. Or Theon dies from typhoid traveling the open seas. There's already too much...and I'd rather trim some of the "fat" and give proper homage to relationships that mean the most than simply give the bare minimum so that everyone gets their 45 seconds of screen time (and I'm not saying that's what happened...but everything is definitely getting rushed to break neck speeds).
You mean throw one of the best redemption arcs in the whole show aside and kill him offscreen? What?
In the grand scale of redemptive arcs still in play this season, he's not even top 2 for me (personally); Jamie and the Hound are at the top. But either way, I'm kinda referring to every off-shoot storyline in general. With only 4 episodes left, this show is on a very very limited pitch count. My point is, we all care about these characters to some degree, but you have to draw the line somewhere if you want anything more than 'hey jon, you're actually Aegon, now go tell Dany quickly because 1 of the 4 remaining episodes is going to be 1 long battle sequence.'
Brian Earl Spilner
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Quote:

Agree completely. I almost feel like their scene got cut as what was the point of them sitting down together in the first place?
I just took it as somebody in Westeros finally realizing that Bran is a rich wealth of information, literally more than the entirety of the library in The Citadel, and Tyrion is the first person who wants to hear about it. He's a [non-]walking, talking encyclopedia.

I enjoyed it.
Sarduakar
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Kill Switch said:

There is only one way Deny will accept Jon is a Targarion. He has to prove he is Dragon born. She has to see him burn and come out alive on the other side.

Only then will she accept his birthright.

that is my theory.


Jon is a song of "Fire and Ice" and can be burned by the "normal" dragon, just like other Targs as stated here. But since Jon is a Targ and a Stark he can withstand being burned by Viscerion, Ice Dragon. This is what proves it to Dany, but that is probably in the end battle not this one.

I also think the Bran Tyrion discussionmatters more to something later. Ie Bran said something in passing that allows Tyrion understand and defeat the NK. But again I think this happens in the later battle.



Furlock Bones
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OldShadeOfBlue said:




Agree completely. I almost feel like their scene got cut as what was the point of them sitting down together in the first place?


i thought this as well. all of it got left on the cutting room floor.
wangus12
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Sarduakar said:

Kill Switch said:

There is only one way Deny will accept Jon is a Targarion. He has to prove he is Dragon born. She has to see him burn and come out alive on the other side.

Only then will she accept his birthright.

that is my theory.


Jon is a song of "Fire and Ice" and can be burned by the "normal" dragon, just like other Targs as stated here. But since Jon is a Targ and a Stark he can withstand being burned by Viscerion, Ice Dragon. This is what proves it to Dany, but that is probably in the end battle not this one.

I also think the Bran Tyrion discussionmatters more to something later. Ie Bran said something in passing that allows Tyrion understand and defeat the NK. But again I think this happens in the later battle.




I thought about that for Jon as well. It'd definitely be a stretch, but pretty awesome to see him walk through the blue flames
Joseph Parrish
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Sarduakar said:

Kill Switch said:


But since Jon is a Targ and a Stark he can withstand being burned by Viscerion, Ice Dragon. This is what proves it to Dany, but that is probably in the end battle not this one.
That'd be a hard one to setup with so few episodes left.
suburban cowboy
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Joseph Parrish said:

They haven't done much at all recently to make Bran look 'powerful.' It's been a while.


Which to me tees up Bran to do something incredibly powerful on the next few episodes. They've distracted us with so much that we forget and don't really know how powerful Bran is.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Brian Earl Spilner
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redline248
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agsquirrel97 said:

redline248 said:

Concerning Azor Ahai/prince that was promised. The story of how Lightbringer was made is one of love and great sacrifice, not vengeance or punishment. Zero chance killing Melisandre will result in a new Lightbringer, and zero chance that ever becomes part of the show.
Wouldn't Mel knowingly going up there to die be a great sacrifice? I am not advocating for this, just pointing out that it is indeed a sacrifice.

As far as the love aspect, it is my understanding that most fans love seeing bewbs.so there is that.


I guess in a way, you're right. My point was the AA story is about him sacrificing his own wife, whom he loved, to create the sword. No one loves Melisandre, or would be sad to see her killed (except viewers that love her tits).

Edit: also, she may only know that she dies in Westeros, not how.
Farmer1906
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What if an undead Stark King rises from the dead to ride Ghost who is riding a dragon who also turns out to be a faceless assassin? I think that could take out the Night King.
Beezy2389
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Another fun prediction for next episode. Deus Ex Cersei. I could see Cersei coming in to save the day with the Lannister Army, D&D love their Deus Ex Machina. Maybe she could play the hero card for political points. It'd be fun to see Bran warg into Viserion in order to freeze him for a second where Bronn or someone uses the bastilla to kill him. Night King comes crashing down to start a sword fight with Jon.
PooDoo
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So before this is all over do you think Bran will be able to go back and see the ice kings origin story?

Also, I'm getting the feeling Arya is going to kill the ice king. That means we should figure she's going to die, right?
JRC0811
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Beezy2389 said:

Another fun prediction for next episode. Deus Ex Cersei. I could see Cersei coming in to save the day with the Lannister Army, D&D love their Deus Ex Machina. Maybe she could play the hero card for political points. It'd be fun to see Bran warg into Viserion in order to freeze him for a second where Bronn or someone uses the bastilla to kill him. Night King comes crashing down to start a sword fight with Jon.
Maybe it's her... but if there were any Deus Ex Machina for this battle like the Battle of Helm's Deep, I think it could be Dorne, too.

You would then have a north and a south with the same desire of independence. Would be another way to "break the wheel," even though Dany wouldn't be too happy with it and may push her further into villain territory.

Brian Earl Spilner
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If we're getting a Deus Ex Machina, I feel like it'll come from within. They made a point to mention that nobody else would be coming.
redline248
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PooDoo said:

So before this is all over do you think Bran will be able to go back and see the ice kings origin story?


We've already seen this, like 3 seasons ago.
bangobango
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I've not seen much mention about Sam giving Heartsbane to Jorah.

To me, that is an important scene. Not sure how or why yet, but I think it means Jorah has a bigger role to play than previously believed.

There's been a train of thought that Heartsbane will be the sword lit on fire and used by the prince who was promised. Maybe Jorah falls and Dany picks up his sword? Or maybe Jorah is the prince (doubtful)?
Brian Earl Spilner
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Ooh, I dig the idea of Jorah being AA, and having to kill Dany. Talk about a sacrifice.
redline248
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Y'all really, really need to forget about the prince that was promised or any flaming sword other than Beric's.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Melisandre never shut the **** up about the PTWP for 6 seasons. It's going to be important.
wangus12
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Melisandre never shut the **** up about the PTWP for 6 seasons. It's going to be important.
It just shows how wrong she is
bangobango
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Furlock Bones said:

OldShadeOfBlue said:




Agree completely. I almost feel like their scene got cut as what was the point of them sitting down together in the first place?


i thought this as well. all of it got left on the cutting room floor.


I think pretty obvious that it will give Tyrion the opportunity to save the group at some point with some information learned and/or deduced from conversation.
bangobango
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redline248 said:

Y'all really, really need to forget about the prince that was promised or any flaming sword other than Beric's.


It will happen. Too much made about it for it not to. Don't think it will next episode bc I still think NK won't be resolved to end of season. Probably revealed in last episode.
emtes
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This may have been touched on already.... But everyone keeps saying how Dany is selfish and only after the throne. We have known that the throne is her primary objective virtually since season 1. So why are we upset now?

And lets not forget that she chose to fight the dead alongside Jon. Rather than take Kings Landing when she is perfectly capable of doing so now.
redline248
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Melisandre never shut the **** up about the PTWP for 6 seasons. It's going to be important.


Maybe in the books, if they are ever written. At this point, it was nothing more than a way to get her to Jon so he could come back to life.
BenFiasco14
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redline248 said:

Y'all really, really need to forget about the prince that was promised or any flaming sword other than Beric's.
TexAgs is dark and full of terrors
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
MuckRaker96
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Get'em while they're hot.
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