This would mean though that the writers knew what they were doing. Which they clearly don'tCarl Underguard said:
I was thinking the same thing. Cersei would absolutely use this as leverage. I wonder if she's going to call him out over it next episode and force Jon to make the reveal in front of everyone.
Game of Thrones - Season 7
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Last: 7 yr ago by Definitely Not A Cop
It is something that Jason Concepcion has pointed out that would absolutely demand an explanation and Jon has yet to have to give one. After all, literally one of the very first things we see in this show is Ned beheading a deserter of the Night's Watch.
Jon, for all that anyone but a few of the characters know, did exactly that, and yet nobody is talking about it. And it's not like he was a secret member of the Night's Watch for a few days, he was the Lord Commander.
It is a legitimate complaint with the writing that nobody seems to have brought it up.
Jon, for all that anyone but a few of the characters know, did exactly that, and yet nobody is talking about it. And it's not like he was a secret member of the Night's Watch for a few days, he was the Lord Commander.
It is a legitimate complaint with the writing that nobody seems to have brought it up.
He was a Lord Commander that was assassinated. I believe assassination overrules desertion.
Maybe it comes back to the Northern Lords, who were pledged to Robb Stark at one time, recognizing Robb's will which names Jon has his heir. Another reason they might see him as KITN. He knocked off the Boltons and reunited the North. At this point, they don't care anymore that he was a member of the NW.
How about this. The most likely answer as to why no one is talking about Jon leaving the Nights Watch is because nobody freakin cares.
Ned lopped the deserters head off at a time when law and order ruled the Seven Kingdoms, Robert was the unquestioned King of Westeros, and Ned the Warden of the North was enforcing their law and customs.
Hate to break to everyone but a lot of sh** has changed since then. This is like arguing if Sansa is still married. That's the King in the Norf's call now. Or arguing who has the true legitimate right to sit the Iron Throne. Dany's 70k Dothraki and two dragons says she does, anymore questions? And no Cercei doesn't get to declare Jon a traitor and a deserter and order the Mountain to execute him because no one outside of King's Landing recognizes her authority. Harming Jon would be the equivalent of North Korea launching a nuke at Japan.
The North is satisfied with Jon's story and the rest of the realm really couldn't give a crap, because, you know, dragons, Dothraki, Army of the Dead, winter is here, etc.
Ned lopped the deserters head off at a time when law and order ruled the Seven Kingdoms, Robert was the unquestioned King of Westeros, and Ned the Warden of the North was enforcing their law and customs.
Hate to break to everyone but a lot of sh** has changed since then. This is like arguing if Sansa is still married. That's the King in the Norf's call now. Or arguing who has the true legitimate right to sit the Iron Throne. Dany's 70k Dothraki and two dragons says she does, anymore questions? And no Cercei doesn't get to declare Jon a traitor and a deserter and order the Mountain to execute him because no one outside of King's Landing recognizes her authority. Harming Jon would be the equivalent of North Korea launching a nuke at Japan.
The North is satisfied with Jon's story and the rest of the realm really couldn't give a crap, because, you know, dragons, Dothraki, Army of the Dead, winter is here, etc.
Anybody else worried you won't be able to watch the finale? I switched to Direct Tv from Comcast earlier this year and this maybe the weekend where satellite finally bites me in the ass. We could lose power, too, which would suck. I'm going to have my tablet fully charged in case I need to try to stream it.
He's a ******* who literally can't hold titles and they elected him king in the North over the rightful heir who won the battle. If they really don't care, someone should acknowledge it. They could have thrown that into Lady Mormont's speech pretty easily. Does this mean they wouldn't care if they found out he was a Targaryen, too? Clearly they do care about customs and "remember" things, otherwise why even bother declaring him king at all? If all you care about is the Army of the Dead, why simultaneously start another rebellion? Why did Jon refuse to bend the knee at first?
I'm not worried, bc I will just cast it to the tv if I need to. I've already had to watch about half this season that way. Also, I really don't expect too much bad weather north of Austin.
I'm thinking anyone in Houston and surrounding areas might be without television Sunday night
Without John rallying most of the north, there would have never been a battle of the b-stards. There would have never been a wildling army to help battle the Boltons. Sansa damn sure wasn't inspiring any of that to happen. Also, the north knows Cersei isn't sending any army north to help against the undead, so why should they not choose to govern themselves?
I think the point that Jason, and I with some of my complaints, are trying to make isn't that there's no narrative way around it, it's that they haven't given us one. Jon being a Night's Watch deserter would be a big deal to people in the north, especially now that the army of the dead is marching. But basically nobody has even brought it up, and again, killing a deserter is the first thing we saw Ned do, so there's no way Ned's son (for all anyone knows) would desert the Night's Watch. Somebody would bring it up, and nobody has.
If nobody cares, what's to stop everyone else in the Night's Watch from abandoning the wall to return to their families/do whatever they want. It would be a big deal.
Now, there are all kinds of narrative ways around it they could have come up with, but they chose "just ignore it and hope nobody notices." Again, the small things helped make this show, and this would be more than a small thing.
It's the same thing with the ridiculous Arya/Sansa thing with the letter.
If nobody cares, what's to stop everyone else in the Night's Watch from abandoning the wall to return to their families/do whatever they want. It would be a big deal.
Now, there are all kinds of narrative ways around it they could have come up with, but they chose "just ignore it and hope nobody notices." Again, the small things helped make this show, and this would be more than a small thing.
It's the same thing with the ridiculous Arya/Sansa thing with the letter.
Also, lady Mormont said it clearly. I don't care if he's a b-stard, he's a stark and he's my king. Pretty safe to say traditional laws are out the window.
In case you haven't noticed, the lords of the North only seem to really care and "remember" when it is convenient to do so, with maybe exception to Little Lady Mormont. They turned all against each other during the War of the Five Kings. The Bolton's completely turned on the Starks up to and including collusion in murdering Robb and Cat. Most of the North told Jon to piss off when he tried to raise an army against the Boltons and several houses were willing to fight and die for Ramsay. But now that skin peeling psycho is gone, Jon does appear to be a badass, oh and all the freefolk, and the Knights of the Vale have his back let's start chanting "King in the Norf" again.
So no, I really don't think the world is going to come unglued over the circumstances for Jon leaving the Watch, or if it's revealed he a Targ, or that it really even matters to anyone considering the whole country is in chaos, dragons, and impending zombie apocalypse.
So no, I really don't think the world is going to come unglued over the circumstances for Jon leaving the Watch, or if it's revealed he a Targ, or that it really even matters to anyone considering the whole country is in chaos, dragons, and impending zombie apocalypse.
On another topic, show-wise, the future of house Stark is pretty f-cked. Jon is a Targ, Bran is an uncaring mystic who probably can't have kids even if he wanted to, and Rickon is dead. I guess Sansa could force a situation similar to the Mormonts until she has a son. But who knows how that will go.
I've sort of been assuming all the old houses of power will all be dead when all of this is over, at least the ones that are on the logo of the show.
The Lannisters, Baratheons, Starks and Targaryens... pretty good chance none of those family names make it out of this generation.
The Lannisters, Baratheons, Starks and Targaryens... pretty good chance none of those family names make it out of this generation.
You know, one interesting development would be if all the Starks are killed except Arya and she's forced to do the lady thing to keep the house alive.
I try not to buy into storm hype, but it's already raining hard here in the H-Town suburbs. I just hope we don't lose power, or I'll be in the weird position of being behind everyone else.
You guys stay safe more than anything.
HBO go on your phone. Charge it now (or whenever you think power might go), it doesn't use that much data.
And yes, stay safe
And yes, stay safe
Carl Underguard said:
I try not to buy into storm hype, but it's already raining hard here in the H-Town suburbs. I just hope we don't lose power, or I'll be in the weird position of being behind everyone else.
The Long Night is here
bobinator said:
All of the Stark kids have had some magic at some point, it seems like Sansa is probably overdue.
the magic of not getting pregnant
i started this season and this thread a few weeks late. That was a lot of discussion about who is a targ, where's the gold, military strategy, who is pregnant, and more.
I'm worried about the stupidity of the gang entering KL and setting up a red wedding type massacre. Also, I'm in the camp that there will be no Azor.
one item i did not see discussed was the absence of the new gods. we've seen results from the Lord of Light, the many-faced god, the old gods, and possibly the drowned god but nothing from the Seven. any thoughts?
I'm worried about the stupidity of the gang entering KL and setting up a red wedding type massacre. Also, I'm in the camp that there will be no Azor.
one item i did not see discussed was the absence of the new gods. we've seen results from the Lord of Light, the many-faced god, the old gods, and possibly the drowned god but nothing from the Seven. any thoughts?
Previews show the Dothraki and the Unsullied formed up right outside KL. Red Wedding would be mistake.
Yeah, I think the message is pretty clear that there will be all out war immediately if **** goes down.Urban Ag said:
Previews show the Dothraki and the Unsullied formed up right outside KL. Red Wedding would be mistake.
Well the writers got one thing right for certain. It took the Unsullied four episodes to walk from Casterly Rock to KL. I bet they're pissed.
This one's feet are sore. This one obeys Mother of Dragons but sure wishes we could magically teleport too. Unsullied always get sh** detail.
/Grey Worm
This one's feet are sore. This one obeys Mother of Dragons but sure wishes we could magically teleport too. Unsullied always get sh** detail.
/Grey Worm
The show writers seem to like magic ravens. I'll bet they send one 5 minutes before they need them in KL.Urban Ag said:
Well the writers got one thing right for certain. It took the Unsullied four episodes to walk from Casterly Rock to KL. I bet they're pissed.
This one's feet are sore. This one obeys Mother of Dragons but sure wishes we could magically teleport too. Unsullied always get sh** detail.
/Grey Worm
...God I hope not.
Yeah if Grey Worm is chillin at the Rock with his boys and a raven shows up with a message to beat feet for KL, I'm going to drink a lot of wine.
Oh who am I kidding, I'm going to do that anyway but still..............
Oh who am I kidding, I'm going to do that anyway but still..............
I agree with UrbanAg. Things changed. Did he do anything that made him a deserter? No. He died and came back after the treason. After everyone "voted" him King of the North they understood his need to go south. Did he desert his people? NO!
He explained to them that as their leader he would try to convince everyone to believe him that the Army of the Dead was coming and that he might die. They were all in on that. I think he as more respect than at any other time and Sansa is trying to eff it up.
He explained to them that as their leader he would try to convince everyone to believe him that the Army of the Dead was coming and that he might die. They were all in on that. I think he as more respect than at any other time and Sansa is trying to eff it up.
I thought Jon Snow dying freed him of his vows since they were for life. Him being rough back to life gave him a new life.
Sorry if this was posted earlier
Sorry if this was posted earlier
JABQ04 said:
I thought Jon Snow dying freed him of his vows since they were for life. Him being rough back to life gave him a new life.
Sorry if this was posted earlier
This is the accepted understanding. The overall point of many posters is that he hasn't told everyone about that, so they should view him as a deserter.
Sansa and Brienne know so it can be assumed that the North knows. Word just hasn't leaked to other areas.
Do you think a resurrected Viserion could burn a hole in the wall?? Hmm....
Southlake said:
Do you think a resurrected Viserion could burn a hole in the wall?? Hmm....
Will Viserion breath fire?
I think he might shoot ice...if he shoots fire like the other two dragons he will end up scorching to ashes a huge number of enemies that could otherwise be turned into wights. Will be interesting to find out!
Whatever he breathes, fire likely won't be able to kill him. He'll have to brought down draco a draco
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