wangus12 said:

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One thing I don't get is why Tyrion thinks breaking the wheel means democracy. I took it to mean Dany intends to reinstall the Targ dynasty that had ruled prior to Robert's rebellion. No other family would or should rule in her mind.

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Varys supports the Targaryen restoration, not mob rule.

Tripacer said:

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The Dog Lord said:

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AgLaw said:

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I was thinking through the current state of the great houses. The GoT series of events has absolutely decimated Westeros:

House Targaryen - Under control Mother of Dragons

• Replacement: No one if Dany or Jon survives

House Stark - Under control of KingofdaNorf

• Replacement: No one if Sansa or Arya survive (or in a way Jon)

House Greyjoy - Under the control of everyone's favorite Disney pirate villain

• Replacement: another Iron Island family (the Greyjoys haven't always ruled their anyway)

House Lannister - Unsee the control of everyone's favorite Disney evil queen

• Replacement: No one if Tyrion survives

House Arryn - ruled by Sweet Robin, under the control of LF.

• Replacement: No one if Robert survives and manages to have kids. Sansa could potentially replace the Arryn family if the others want her to

House Tully - essentially gone; current lord a prisoner of the Lannisters.

• Replacement: No one if Edmure's family is still alive

House Baratheon - gone

• Replacement: No one if Gendry is legitimized by the surviving ruler. Brienne and Tormund's massive children could be a nice replacement though (Tarth is an island in the Stormlands, and Tormund has a similar personality to some of the Baratheons)

House Martell - gone

• Replacement: this is harder to talk about in show terms since they have been ignored and cut out almost entirely from the beginning

House Tyrell - gone

• Replacement: Perhaps Samwell Tarly could be released from service (especially if the WW are defeated for good) and made Lord of the Reach

House Frey - gone (a great house only for a very short period of time).

• Replacement: Practically anyone would likely be better for Westeros

This continent must be in absolute chaos.

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No doubt that there is going to be a real struggle to get back to some sort of normal, but depending on who survives there could be several that continue or are replaced naturally.

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Don't forget Bronn. He's definitely getting a castle.

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Huge omission on my part!

So does Dany though. All she's talked about for 7 seasons is taking back her throne which was stolen from her family

I dont get the hate for the Arya/Sansa storyline. These are young sisters and even with all they have been through they can fight. Neither one understands what the other has been though and because of they they feel to be the superior Stark.

Someone pointed out that Arya is very good at the Game of Faces and she probably did figure that Sansa is telling the truth. She needs Sansa to be paranoid and a little on edge to completely reel in LF. I think Arya is working with Sansa without Sansa knowledge at this time.

Arya takes a face and kills LF then revealing herself to Sansa.

Arya was a bad b**** last night. She tells Sansa she can killer at any time, gives her a knife and then turns her back and walks out. She is easily my favorite character not named The Hound

Sex Panther said:

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The Debt said:

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Effective fiction plays by the rules it establishes, right?

Well do you guys remember the cute redhead from s1 that was bathing viserys

She said she wanted to be a dragon because it could flap it's wings and be 1000 miles away in no time. (Time paradox: closed)

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Greatness!

wangus12 said:

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So does Dany though. All she's talked about for 7 seasons is taking back her throne which was stolen from her family

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true

EagleFordEarl said:

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I feel like Arya laid out all of her training/backstory and the whole I can take someone's face and impersonate them as more of her showing her available skills to Sansa. If LF were in bed with the Lannisters then Arya smoking him on the DL, and her "being" him would allow her access to Cersei. Not sure if that's what is being set up, but it would make for better TV than the current bishy sister act we have going on right now.

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I can definitely see that's how she gets to Cersei..... still think it will be Jamie, though.

What would save the Arya/Sansa storyline is if Arya had already killed LF and that last meeting between Sansa and LF about sending Brienne away was actually Arya posing as LF.

It would make sense for Arya to test Sansa's loyalty like that after finding her letter.

claym711 said:

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What would save the Arya/Sansa storyline is if Arya had already killed LF and that last meeting between Sansa and LF about sending Brienne away was actually Arya posing as LF.

It would make sense for Arya to test Sansa's loyalty like that after finding her letter.

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Zero chance LF is killed off camera. Edit: I suppose you weren't saying this was a possibility, but rather a way to tidy up a dumb plot...

Was LF implying that Brienne should be sent away so that she couldn't protect Arya if Sansa tried to imprison or kill her?

RDV-1992 said:

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The Dog Lord said:

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Tripacer said:

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The Dog Lord said:

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AgLaw said:

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I was thinking through the current state of the great houses. The GoT series of events has absolutely decimated Westeros:

House Targaryen - Under control Mother of Dragons

• Replacement: No one if Dany or Jon survives

House Stark - Under control of KingofdaNorf

• Replacement: No one if Sansa or Arya survive (or in a way Jon)

House Greyjoy - Under the control of everyone's favorite Disney pirate villain

• Replacement: another Iron Island family (the Greyjoys haven't always ruled their anyway)

House Lannister - Unsee the control of everyone's favorite Disney evil queen

• Replacement: No one if Tyrion survives

House Arryn - ruled by Sweet Robin, under the control of LF.

• Replacement: No one if Robert survives and manages to have kids. Sansa could potentially replace the Arryn family if the others want her to

House Tully - essentially gone; current lord a prisoner of the Lannisters.

• Replacement: No one if Edmure's family is still alive

House Baratheon - gone

• Replacement: No one if Gendry is legitimized by the surviving ruler. Brienne and Tormund's massive children could be a nice replacement though (Tarth is an island in the Stormlands, and Tormund has a similar personality to some of the Baratheons)

House Martell - gone

• Replacement: this is harder to talk about in show terms since they have been ignored and cut out almost entirely from the beginning

House Tyrell - gone

• Replacement: Perhaps Samwell Tarly could be released from service (especially if the WW are defeated for good) and made Lord of the Reach

House Frey - gone (a great house only for a very short period of time).

• Replacement: Practically anyone would likely be better for Westeros

This continent must be in absolute chaos.

---

No doubt that there is going to be a real struggle to get back to some sort of normal, but depending on who survives there could be several that continue or are replaced naturally.

---

Don't forget Bronn. He's definitely getting a castle.

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Huge omission on my part!

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And Hot Pie. He is definitely getting a castle once he seduces Dany.

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He'll get the ruined castle where Bran told the story of the rat chef.

claym711 said:

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Was LF implying that Brienne should be sent away so that she couldn't protect Arya if Sansa tried to imprison or kill her?

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i think that's implied but i doubt they will kill off Arya.

What was the episode's title? My DVR said "Death is the Enemy," but every review I read (plus Wikipedia) says "Beyond the Wall."

I've seen both as well. I prefer Death Is The Enemy

AgLaw02 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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Helluva a question we will probably never get an answer to. How does a hermit wildling some how broker that deal with the WW's?

Considering he is (was) the only known living being to actually interact with the WW's it's pretty significant and at a min shows they are capable of communication/negotiate with humans.

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The simplest explanation is that Craster abandoned his baby sons to die because he didn't want any male competition. The WWs found the babies useful so they left Craster alone. I wouldn't imagine there was ever any discussion between Craster and one of the Others.

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Maybe it started out that way, but eventually I think the walkers came to him and they reached an agreement. He knew, both in the books and the show, what was happening to them. They left him alone bc he agreed to provide them the male sons.

AstroAg17 said:

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In season 2, melisandre says that darkness will fall, the dead will rise in the north, and the "cold breath of winter shall freeze the seas".

That seems like it could refer to the new dragon freezing the sea so the army of the dead can circumvent the wall, no?

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It would be pretty sad if the army of the dead could always just go around the wall. I think the NK has to bring part of the wall down somewhere.

Why, in an always frozen environment, was the ice so thin that some dead zombies could break through it with ease?

Will the zombie dragon shoot ice?

easttexasaggie04 said:

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I guess I'm the only one who loved this episode. SH*T was intense!

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Same

Ill catch up on this thread later but my first thought upon viewing was at least whatever poor sum***** zombies who had to drag around those giant ****ing chains in the whole great white north, just in case they happen to come in handy, didnt do it in vain

JJxvi said:

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Ill catch up on this thread later but my first thought upon viewing was at least whatever poor sum***** zombies who had to drag around those giant ****ing chains in the whole great white north, just in case they happen to come in handy, didnt do it in vain

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how do fire-fearing zombies make chains?

LOVED this episode (ignoring time travel issues).

Arya part was not the best....I'm giving benefit of the doubt that the payoff on that plotline will be worth it.

The rest was AMAZEBALLS!!

AstroAg17 said:

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DSAg44 said:

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how do fire-fearing zombies make chains?

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How do zombies that can't swim attach chains to a dragon at the bottom of a lake?

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dredge hooks

So we finally all agree Sopranos is better???