I mentioned this last season in the thread. The disconnect is that what we are watching is now much more plot driven drama as the writers try to fill the outline framework they have been given. The characters have roles they are supposed fill, and so they go do what they are supposed to do to "make the story happen." That's not how Martin wrote the books. The book plot-lines are much more character driven, and the first 4 to 5 seasons of the show were likewise very character driven more so than plot driven. Robb Stark gets killed not because Robb Stark needed to die for the story, but he died because of the decisions his character made and other characters made in response, etc. Much of the "character driven" decisions are being stripped away now, so it feels very different, and it has allowed the pace to increase a lot as well. Character driven slows things down because you have to understand a characters motivations and reasoning before you have them act. So now we are basically just living on previous character development, having the characters do what they need to do, and hope it all makes sense. It leads to some moments where I've been like, wait, why the **** would this character do that? Esp with the Arya stuff last season. Her escape from the faceless men was very contrived just because it needed to happen.

CapCityAg89 said:

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BowSowy said:

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OnlyForNow said:

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One of the biggest events in the series to (if the spoilers are believed to be true) occur was "guessed" correctly a while back

So... ya.

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Yep, I've seen a couple of "predictions" posts that were every single major plot point from the leaks.

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Which ones? Seriously - the events that have occurred on screen aren't spoilers any more so call out the posters.

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Negative, then they'll just get pissy and start spoiling all over the place, or at a minimum, posters will be able to connect the dots to the rest of their "projections".

It's better if we just don't have any confirmations.

Brick Tamland said:

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Why is King's Landing still showing the Baratheon stag on the intro? Why no lion?

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Gendry!!

Edited to add: this is not a spoiler, just a hope

Cersei is still Roberts Widow

This is stupid.

If you wanted the show to continue on forever sure
a. the characters would continue to evolve and the plots would be character driven
b. you would feel like the characters were still more interesting than the plots
b. none of the important ones would die or not very often anyway
c. you'd end up with a GOT universe based soap opera (call it "Days of Our Westerosi Lives")


However this show has and always had an end game to play out. So instead the characters were well developed over 4-5 seasons and now the end game is playing out so
a. the characters are well established at this point and you mostly understand their actions based on their character
b. the episodes spend more time now playing out the plot (the literal "Game of Thrones")
c. and not developing characters further or introducing new ones

Personally I would have tuned out a while ago if it weren't for the promise of the end game. I'm not interested in an ongoing soap opera. The characters are developed and I like them or loathe them...but it's time for the game to play out.

If you expected anything else well....I'm not sure why. we always knew what this was about and that it would play out this way.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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This is stupid.

If you wanted the show to continue on forever sure
a. the characters would continue to evolve and the plots would be character driven
b. you would feel like the characters were still more interesting than the plots
b. none of the important ones would die or not very often anyway
c. you'd end up with a GOT universe based soap opera (call it "Days of Our Westerosi Lives")


However this show has and always had an end game to play out. So instead the characters were well developed over 4-5 seasons and now the end game is playing out so
a. the characters are well established at this point and you mostly understand their actions based on their character
b. the episodes spend more time now playing out the plot (the literal "Game of Thrones")
c. and not developing characters further or introducing new ones

Personally I would have tuned out a while ago if it weren't for the promise of the end game. I'm not interested in an ongoing soap opera. The characters are developed and I like them or loathe them...but it's time for the game to play out.

If you expected anything else well....I'm not sure why. we always knew what this was about and that it would play out this way.

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Thanks for coming to the show's defense with enthusiasm!

However, what I "expected" or what is "better" was not mentioned in there at all, just an explanation why it feels very different in my opinion and a potential weakness that it brings out.

EagleFordEarl said:

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Cersei is still Roberts Widow

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Yeah..but in Season 6 Episode 10 she was crowned as Cersei of the House Lannister..and sent a letter to Jon as Cersei of House Lannister.

Aggie Joe 93 said:

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If these last two seasons weren't truncated, then maybe they'd have more time to develop characters through dialogue.

There becomes a time where actions speak louder than words.

Bron's leaving his gold behind mid battle and saving Jamie is a clear development point that was communicated through an action sequence.

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A sellsword stands between a rich man, a king, a priest....

IDK, maybe the Maester at the citadel in charge of swapping out the sigils is lazy and doesn't want to swap it out or doesn't recognize her as being a Lannister anymore because she was married to Robert, or maybe the guy who does the opening credits got distracted by Missandeis nice pert tits and forgot what he was doing...

Mmmmm.... Missandei's tits....

JJxvi said:

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I mentioned this last season in the thread. The disconnect is that what we are watching is now much more plot driven drama as the writers try to fill the outline framework they have been given. The characters have roles they are supposed fill, and so they go do what they are supposed to do to "make the story happen." That's not how Martin wrote the books. The book plot-lines are much more character driven, and the first 4 to 5 seasons of the show were likewise very character driven more so than plot driven. Robb Stark gets killed not because Robb Stark needed to die for the story, but he died because of the decisions his character made and other characters made in response, etc. Much of the "character driven" decisions are being stripped away now, so it feels very different, and it has allowed the pace to increase a lot as well. Character driven slows things down because you have to understand a characters motivations and reasoning before you have them act. So now we are basically just living on previous character development, having the characters do what they need to do, and hope it all makes sense. It leads to some moments where I've been like, wait, why the **** would this character do that? Esp with the Arya stuff last season. Her escape from the faceless men was very contrived just because it needed to happen.

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I think a big part of it is that we're just misinterpreting WHO is driving the story. The first 3-4 seasons, the story was driven by the actions of Littlefinger, Ned, Joffrey, Catelyn, and Tywin, but none of those characters were actually the central characters. So we watched all the young characters developing into themselves while dealing with the actions of the aforementioned. Now Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Jamie, Cersi, Sansa, and Arya finally have control over their own lives and can drive the story instead of just deal with the decisions made by their fathers and mothers.

For example, when was the first time Arya was really allowed to make a decision for herself? When she went to Bravos? Even that decision led to another 2 seasons where she had very limited if at all any decisions afforded to her. Well now, she's finally able to do as she pleases and we're finally seeing her storyline become character driven rather than story driven. She decided who and how she wanted to kill at the Freys', she decided to head back to Winterfell instead of head to Kings Landing. She chose to show off in front of her siblings and best a fighter that was once tasked with "saving" her.

Perhaps it's all personal perspective, but to me, the show is finally getting to character driven instead of plot driven because I finally know and understand the driving characters' motivations.

Somebody who knows needs to make a note of which posters are posting the spoilers as their own "opinions" and we need to have a public thrashing at the end of the season

i think Dornish heat would have been a good nickname for our dearly departed hot sand sister

Right. You should make screenshots of the posts and posters, and then we should roast them after the season finale.

smokeythebear said:

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JJxvi said:

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I mentioned this last season in the thread. The disconnect is that what we are watching is now much more plot driven drama as the writers try to fill the outline framework they have been given. The characters have roles they are supposed fill, and so they go do what they are supposed to do to "make the story happen." That's not how Martin wrote the books. The book plot-lines are much more character driven, and the first 4 to 5 seasons of the show were likewise very character driven more so than plot driven. Robb Stark gets killed not because Robb Stark needed to die for the story, but he died because of the decisions his character made and other characters made in response, etc. Much of the "character driven" decisions are being stripped away now, so it feels very different, and it has allowed the pace to increase a lot as well. Character driven slows things down because you have to understand a characters motivations and reasoning before you have them act. So now we are basically just living on previous character development, having the characters do what they need to do, and hope it all makes sense. It leads to some moments where I've been like, wait, why the **** would this character do that? Esp with the Arya stuff last season. Her escape from the faceless men was very contrived just because it needed to happen.

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I think a big part of it is that we're just misinterpreting WHO is driving the story. The first 3-4 seasons, the story was driven by the actions of Littlefinger, Ned, Joffrey, Catelyn, and Tywin, but none of those characters were actually the central characters. So we watched all the young characters developing into themselves while dealing with the actions of the aforementioned. Now Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Jamie, Cersi, Sansa, and Arya finally have control over their own lives and can drive the story instead of just deal with the decisions made by their fathers and mothers.

For example, when was the first time Arya was really allowed to make a decision for herself? When she went to Bravos? Even that decision led to another 2 seasons where she had very limited if at all any decisions afforded to her. Well now, she's finally able to do as she pleases and we're finally seeing her storyline become character driven rather than story driven. She decided who and how she wanted to kill at the Freys', she decided to head back to Winterfell instead of head to Kings Landing. She chose to show off in front of her siblings and best a fighter that was once tasked with "saving" her.

Perhaps it's all personal perspective, but to me, the show is finally getting to character driven instead of plot driven because I finally know and understand the driving characters' motivations.

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I agree. This is essentially a 77 hour movie. We're finished with the first two acts where we build the characters, decide who we like or don't and set the stage for the finale. I know, understand and love Jon, Sam, Dany, Tyreom, Arya Sansa, Cercei, and Jamie. Now I just need to know what happens to them.

EagleFordEarl said:

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Cersei is still Roberts Widow

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It's weird, but I've always considered her name to be Cersei Lannister, even though she has been Cersei Baratheon the entire show. It sounds weird to say in my head.

JJxvi said:

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Oh look, someone else who needed to come to the defense of the show. Btw, character driven does not mean good and plot driven does not mean bad. I didn't insult your beloved show, nor praise the books. Just explained why I think it feels much different now than before.

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