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I honestly don't get the hate for Winona. I thought she played the part well.

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Don't get it either... Thought she played the part to perfection.

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Just finished the series today and reading through all posts. Got to here before stopping and posting.

I agree completely with Brian and SP. Don't get the hate for her at all. I thought she was fantastic. That was a tough as hell role she had to take on and she did a great job imo.

Now back to reading through the thread.

I think people didn't like her because her character was annoying. That doesn't mean that she didn't play the character well.

YYYYYYYEEESSSSS

burn in hell barb

The sick burn on Fallon by a 13 year old makes that whole clip worth watching.

Really enjoyed this show. Just finished reading the thread and didn't really see the show's themes discussed that much, so I'll put on my liberal arts hat for a minute and list some of my observations. I think looking at the show's themes helps explain the ending a bit more, especially why things 'go back to normal' at the end.

One of the biggest themes of the show is the idea of separate worlds, especially as relates to parents/children and different social groups. Everyone lives in their own world, and people don't really cross over. The show sets a rule and follows it - that you can visit someone else's world, but you can't stay there (you're a stranger).

The upside down is a fantasy version of this concept. It's like the world we live in, but viewed from a different 'direction'. People can visit there for a while, but the atmosphere is toxic and you eventually have to leave.

The most obvious parallel is Mike's basement. The boys have their own world there, and while parents can visit, they don't belong. This is why they could hide Eleven there without being discovered - she might as well have been in the real upside down as far as the parents were concerned. (I mean, Mike's basement is LITERALLY UNDER the house. The writers pretty much whacked us over the head with the symbolism here.)

Other characters:

• For Nancy, the upside down is Jonathan's world of poverty and a non-nuclear family, and vice versa for Jonathan.
• For Eleven, it's the world outside the lab.
• For Mike's mom, it's whatever her kids are doing. (correct me if this is wrong, but if I remember correctly, Joyce trying to communicate with Will via the Christmas lights in episode 3 is intercut with Mrs Wheeler trying to get the truth out of Nancy, no accident there)
• For Hop, he couldn't save his daughter. (i.e he couldn't follow where she went, which is why he's so driven to save Will. To me the on-the-nose writing weakens this a bit)
• And then, for all the characters, the horrors of the lab are a glimpse into the secret world of the Cold War and the lurking danger it added to everyday life.

So, why does everything 'go back to normal' at the end? Because everyone went back to their own world, more or less. The boys are back playing D&D, just like at the beginning. Nancy is back with Steve. Will is home. Eleven went...somewhere, but she couldn't stay in regular old Hawkins, Indiana. You can visit another world, but you can't stay there.

On a different note, this show is really uncomplimentary of fathers except for Hop. Mr Wheeler is vapid and clueless, Lonnie is a deadbeat, Dr Brenner is a monster (Eleven calls him Papa, so he counts). The science teacher is more of a father figure than any of the boys seem to have. Not real sure where the writers were going with that but too many worthless dads to be coincidence.

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Poor Will must still be stuck in the upside down.

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Also, I think Elle could be the Ives daughter. Third trimester abortion, the feds could have told her it was that in the effort to take her baby, and actually delivered her prematurely. My take anyway.

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Who doesn't think this? even IMBD.com lists the eleven characters name as Jane " Eleven" Ives. ( Maybe I am confusing characters though on Ives)

Her mother was in the LSD trials, got pregnant while under the influence and Brenner wants the kid. My real question is who her father. I think this goes with DanHo2010 point about loser dads. My off the wall theory is that Eleven's dad is Brenner's son. so Brenner is actually her papa. I think everything Brenner is doing is about his son ( I think there was a reference in the show to him, maybe I am making that up.)

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also the music...

ugh.

It was kind of cool for the first episode of so, but the annoying, grating synthesizers and electronic music became too much after a while.

I hated that crap even in the 80s.

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You are probably in a very small minority on this one.