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I don't know if that northern army is the strongest...unless it does include Umbers and Karstarks.

But also, I don't think Sansa can now marry anyone or they might not have her. The reasons she was seen as "marryable" for the Boltons was the marriage with Tyrion was never consummated. Thats not the case now it was certainly consumated with Ramsay in a bad way.

But perhaps once Ramsay is dead she might be able to marry again.

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I think that "Dead Ramsay" is pretty much a given in this discussion.

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sure but the way he worded it was that she would marry Robyn prior to taking Winterfell which I assume would mean Ramsay is still alive.



"I predict Sansa will make her first political move independently of LF, and marry Sweetrobin. Once Winterfell is taken ....."

anyway.

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I know people have a lot of bummers about stuff that didn't make it from the books to the show. My personal bummer is that show King Robb never sent a letter legitimizing Show Jon Snow, naming him a Stark and his heir.

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We do not KNOW that he did not do so in the show universe, and we do not KNOW that he actually DID do so in the books' universe. Books are vague on the topic, and show is simply silent.

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Would you then say, that we, know nothing?

Definitely meant after Ramsay's death.

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I know people have a lot of bummers about stuff that didn't make it from the books to the show. My personal bummer is that show King Robb never sent a letter legitimizing Show Jon Snow, naming him a Stark and his heir.

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We do not KNOW that he did not do so in the show universe, and we do not KNOW that he actually DID do so in the books' universe. Books are vague on the topic, and show is simply silent.

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Good point.

More likely IF Robb wrote a letter in the show (as he did in the book)....that the letter may be in Oldtown with the Maesters and THAT is what Sam will discover there!!

disclaimer - i stumbled upon this theory while searching for details on the writing of the letter in the book....

In the book there were several people in the tent when Robb made the declaration and wrote the letter. One was a captain of the ship Myraham who was a merchanter from Oldtown. Well I think he left the tent actually before the letter was written but was told to wait outside. But all the others in the tent witnessed the letter and then were assigned important tasks (guarding Catelyn, ensuring ships are sent, battle plans after the wedding, etc.) and at the end Robb says something about "one more matter"....could that have been delivery of the letter to Oldtown for safekeeping or distribution and he gave that task to the captain who was leaving for Oldtown. There were also curious phrases in that chapter about "if you keep all your treasures in one purse, it makes it easier for those who would rob you".... Robb would keep something so valuable not on his person then. He might have arranged for it to be held for him.

If someone is legitimized while they're in the NW, are they freed of their oath?

Not that it matters at this point.

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If someone is legitimized while they're in the NW, are they freed of their oath?

Not that it matters at this point.

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Don't think so based upon Mormont's speech about not taking part in the war of 5 kings, Maestor Aemon's revelation to Jon about his lineage as a Targaryan and Jon's eventual refusal to be legitimized by Stannis.

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Isn't Bran still the heir to Winterfell?

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Yes, unless King Rob legitimized Jon Snow/Stark. Then, it is unclear whether the older (former basterd) or the younger (trueborn) would be the heir.

But remember that no one knows that Bran is alive.

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Except Sam, and Jon, and Ramsay, oh and Theon and Sansa. But the last three only know he wasn't killed at Winterfell, so not exactly no one

The story at this point is so much different in the show than the books.

• Sansa is NOT married to Ramsey, and he has no legitimate claim on Winterfell. He is married to Jeyne Pool posing as Arya.
• Roose is still alive and controls both Winterfell and the Dreadfort, for now.
• Jon, Sansa, Littlefinger...pretty much none of them know Bran and Rickon are alive.
• Theon, and of course Ramsay, knows...but Ramsay is more than happy to let everyone continue thinking they are dead.
• Davos is sent off to find Rickon as part of the Manderlys plan to take back the north
• Oh yeah, Jon is still dead, for now, and is potentially named Robb's heir

The points in regards to the show

• Completely changes the dynamic of everything, depending on the outcome of the upcoming battle, and what truths are discovered or deaths that occur
• If the Boltons lose, the Dreadfort is probably taken over by one Stark or another, maybe given to a Manderly, one of the smaller houses, or to the Karstarks to make amends for Robb killing their lord
• Everyone of the "good" guys, and LF, are racing against time, hoping Rickon is still alive at Winterfell
• Now that Jon is no longer part of the Watch, would he accept being made a legitmate Stark (assuming his potential Targaryen lineage isn't known already)

I'm sure I've missed some other big differences...not including Hodor for this discussion

Also, isn't brienne dead? I thought Lady Stoneheart killed her?

EDIT: Nvm, that was in book 4. She didn't die.

I think Brienne finally said something and got cut down, last we saw of her she went to Riverrun to get Jaime, and the 2 of them rode off together. IIRC, she wouldn't tell stoneheart what she wanted to hear, and they were going to hang Brienne, but before she choked out she decided to bend her honor or something like that, in order to live.

Brienne is gonna die at Riverrun, isn't she.

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Stoneheart gives Brienne an ultimatum: kill Ser Jaime Lannister or be hanged. When the Maid states that she will not make that choice, the thing that had been Catelyn Stark orders them hanged. Despite Ser Hyle's pleas for mercy, and Podrick's stoicism, nooses are looped about all three of their necks. As they are hefted upward, thrashing and dying, Brienne screams out a word...

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from the wiki recap of that chapter

and this from a Jaime wiki:

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Jaime receives an unexpected visit from Brienne of Tarth. She tells Jaime that she has found Sansa, who is a day's ride away. She claims, however, that Jaime must go with her alone or else the Hound will kill the girl

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So, I guess Brienne is really taking him to lady stoneheart

I think the other biggest difference not listed is the absence Aegon Targaryen and Victarion Greyjoy. Says alot about Aegon that he was left out of the show.

Aegon, might show up next season... or might show up to Meeren at the same time as Theon and Yara.

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I think the other biggest difference not listed is the absence Aegon Targaryen and Victarion Greyjoy. Says alot about Aegon that he was left out of the show.

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And poor Quentyn. :P

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I think the other biggest difference not listed is the absence Aegon Targaryen and Victarion Greyjoy. Says alot about Aegon that he was left out of the show.

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And poor Quentyn. :P

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Quentin's departure affects the fulfillment of the prophecy of the Sun rising in the West and setting in the East

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I think Brienne finally said something and got cut down, last we saw of her she went to Riverrun to get Jaime, and the 2 of them rode off together. IIRC, she wouldn't tell stoneheart what she wanted to hear, and they were going to hang Brienne, but before she choked out she decided to bend her honor or something like that, in order to live.

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She did it to save Pod.

So I'm 2/3 or so through GoT (Book 1) on the start of my reread before WoW and I come across this gem (right after Robb leaves Winterfell):

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When the distant cheers had faded to silence and the yard was empty at last, Winterfell seemed deserted and dead. Bran looked around at the faces of those who remained, women and children and old men and Hodor. The huge stableboy had a lost and frightened look to his face. "Hodor?" he said sadly. "Hodor," Bran agreed, wondering what it meant.

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Who becomes the "big bad" if Ramsay is killed this season? I know Cersei is still around and it seems like Euron is a villain since he is pursuing a redeemed Theon. Does this season see the end of human villains in favor of white walkers? Somebody posted earlier that the final scene this season might be a crack developing at the Wall.

One of the strengths of this show is that it has had really villainous characters (Joffrey, Cersei, Thorne, Ramsay, Freys).

I'm guessing the White Walkers become the big bad? I have a feeling Coldhands (whatever we call him in the show) will go south of the wall with Bran and Meera, and all hell will break loose.

I have other assumptions, but ok.

As a book reader and show watcher, that had not even entered into my head as a possibility.

and A LOT of people are assuming that is going to happen... just seems strange.

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I predict Sansa will make her first political move independently of LF, and marry Sweetrobin. Once Winterfell is taken (and the Vale makes their last minute entry and saves the day), she'll have LF either executed or sent to the wall.

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Not sure I see Sansa marrying her cousin. They're Starks, not Targaryens

Didn't her aunt suggest the idea?

Her aunt was psycho.


In the books, Coldhands was with Bran and crew when they made it to the three eyed raven's cave, but he didn't go in, right? What was his status, killed by the wights? Ran off?

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There's also a line about how Hodor forgets to crouch down going through doorways so Bran hits his head sometimes. Maybe this is Hodor's sweet revenge.

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Either you or I are misremembering or there were 2 lines. I remember a line about hodor forgetting bran was back there and heavy doors closing behind hodor and smashing bran.

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I have other assumptions, but ok.

As a book reader and show watcher, that had not even entered into my head as a possibility.

and A LOT of people are assuming that is going to happen... just seems strange.

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A lot of people are assuming it is happening because there is a clip in the Season 6 trailer. Check out "Alt Shift X" review of Season 6 Episode 5 around the 17:30 mark.

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I predict Sansa will make her first political move independently of LF, and marry Sweetrobin. Once Winterfell is taken (and the Vale makes their last minute entry and saves the day), she'll have LF either executed or sent to the wall.

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Not sure I see Sansa marrying her cousin. They're Starks, not Targaryens

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I just don't think that there is any way in hell she marries him just because of her experiences with him. She was mortified at the thought when Lysa suggested it. She doesn't need to marry him to have his support, and as someone mentioned earlier, her place would be in the Vale not the North if she were to do that.

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I'm guessing the White Walkers become the big bad? I have a feeling Coldhands (whatever we call him in the show) will go south of the wall with Bran and Meera, and all hell will break loose.

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I Almost said that he will not be able to use the tunnel under Nightfort, but I briefly forgot about Bran's new tatt. If it lets WW into the home of the CoF, it probably lets Coldhands navigate the tunnel.