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Who becomes the "big bad" if Ramsay is killed this season? I know Cersei is still around and it seems like Euron is a villain since he is pursuing a redeemed Theon. Does this season see the end of human villains in favor of white walkers? Somebody posted earlier that the final scene this season might be a crack developing at the Wall.

One of the strengths of this show is that it has had really villainous characters (Joffrey, Cersei, Thorne, Ramsay, Freys).

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I would also assume that it shifts more to the WW. The minor bads could still be the Freys, Littlefinger, Euron, etc. Then you still will likely have conflict between different groups even if none of them are bad necessarily. You'll have the north (which could even be split somewhat between Jon & the Wildlings and Sansa & the noble houses), the Lannisters & Tyrells (assuming they continue their allegiance), Randyll Tarly could play a role, the Maesters could play a role, Dany's arrival will obviously cause some disruption, etc. Unfortunately, there is always the Sand Snakes too which I assume they can't just leave out completely. Maybe they can wrap them up this season too though.

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Unfortunately, there is always the Sand Snakes too which I assume they can't just leave out completely. Maybe they can wrap them up this season too though.

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Something I never thought I'd want post-books, pre-show: Dany lands in Dorne (a la Egg from books) and Dragons torch all the bad pucy immediately without hesitation or remorse. Dorne is the smoldering example of Dany's power in an effort to end the war before it starts /hiroshimatheory

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Horn of Winter is said to destroy the Wall, right?

I think this will be done through Bran. If/when he goes south of the Wall, maybe the mark on him will destroy whatever magic is at the Wall and it comes down, or it simply allows the WW to go south.

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What if the "Horn of Winter" is not a horn, but a Valyrian sword, some other weapon, or a person?

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Who becomes the "big bad" if Ramsay is killed this season? I know Cersei is still around and it seems like Euron is a villain since he is pursuing a redeemed Theon. Does this season see the end of human villains in favor of white walkers? Somebody posted earlier that the final scene this season might be a crack developing at the Wall.

One of the strengths of this show is that it has had really villainous characters (Joffrey, Cersei, Thorne, Ramsay, Freys).

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I know what you mean, but in Thorne's case, being an ******* doesn't make you a villain - he at least had a set of rules and values that he followed.

I'd say murdering your pledged commander and an innocent man in cold blood does! (He was also a bully to Sam)

I don't think Dany conquers Westeros at all. I think the first thing she does when arriving in Westeros is park her ships at Eastwatch-By-The-Sea or whatever port is nearest the WW/wight horde, fight and defeat the Others with dragon fire, and then be crowned Queen alongside Jon, the other hero of the war who has been revealed as the product of R+L. It's just a matter of her getting the message about the WW and her realizing that there won't be Seven kingdoms to rule unless she accepts her role as Azor Ahai and frees them from the WW threat.

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Who becomes the "big bad" if Ramsay is killed this season? I know Cersei is still around and it seems like Euron is a villain since he is pursuing a redeemed Theon. Does this season see the end of human villains in favor of white walkers? Somebody posted earlier that the final scene this season might be a crack developing at the Wall.

One of the strengths of this show is that it has had really villainous characters (Joffrey, Cersei, Thorne, Ramsay, Freys).

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I would also assume that it shifts more to the WW. The minor bads could still be the Freys, Littlefinger, Euron, etc. Then you still will likely have conflict between different groups even if none of them are bad necessarily. You'll have the north (which could even be split somewhat between Jon & the Wildlings and Sansa & the noble houses), the Lannisters & Tyrells (assuming they continue their allegiance), Randyll Tarly could play a role, the Maesters could play a role, Dany's arrival will obviously cause some disruption, etc. Unfortunately, there is always the Sand Snakes too which I assume they can't just leave out completely. Maybe they can wrap them up this season too though.

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I've thought about this too in trying to time out exactly when/if Ramsey were to die. It's possible though that we could see a shift (one we're already seeing the signs of) towards different levels of good vs. each other. The first couple seasons did a good job of uniting the fanbase with universally hated characters, but now we're having to reconcile Brienne working with Davos (who was a smuggler and the hand to Stannis) and Melisandre (who used black magic to kill Renly, sacrificed Shireen, and abandoned Stannis). But we LIKE Davos, right? And we LIKE that Melisandre raised Jon from the dead, right? Furthermore, we used to all hate Cerci, but you definitely had to feel bad for her and Jaime when Jaime brought home a dead Myrcella. And we all love the Tyrells right now, but who do you cheer for in a battle of the Tyrells vs. Daenerys? Even the Mountain now has some redeeming qualities (loyalty, pity for what was done to him and how people treat him).

Gone are the days where anyone is 100% good or 100% evil. Except maybe the WWs. I can't imagine there's a way they ever get spun in a positive light, except maybe that they are a product of war and were the creation of the CotF. Much like Global Warming, they exist because of the stupidity of man. Had the first men never taken the lands from the CotF, then the WWs wouldn't exist. But I digress. The next major villain is going to be the negative consequences of good intentions.

What if it actually works to call the dragons, but Drogon still eats him.

This way Dany can let them go do whatever, as long as they aren't killing everything in site, and then blow the horn and they return... like a dog whistle.

Luckily, Tyrion just recruited a priestess of R'hllor who is all about the battle against the great darkness.

Yea, I hear you, he was definitely a dbag to Sam, but Thorne's bullying pales in comparison to the kind of bullying Joffrey and Ramsey did.

Sam is never going to be a great fighter. Thorne disliked Jon bc of his "better than everyone" attitude. When Jon put that aside, Thorne kept on hating him, probably bc he stuck up for Sam.

I don't remember, was there more to his dislike of Jon...something personal?

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Sam is never going to be a great fighter. Thorne disliked Jon bc of his "better than everyone" attitude. When Jon put that aside, Thorne kept on hating him, probably bc he stuck up for Sam.

I don't remember, was there more to his dislike of Jon...something personal?

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Thorne disliked everyone. He was a bitter old man sent to the wall as a knight to fight alongside rapists and thieves. (But I bet Jon's awesome hair had something to do with it.)

That was it, thanks.

Do y'all think book Thorne had any part in Jon's murder? iirc, he is not even at castle black, but at one of the other keeps?

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In the books Thorne was sent to the Wall because he had been a Targaryian supporter during Roberts Rebellion. So he hated Ned and Robert already, which made him not like Jon either. But he was also a just an a-hole.

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I was just about to post this

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I don't think Dany conquers Westeros at all. I think the first thing she does when arriving in Westeros is park her ships at Eastwatch-By-The-Sea or whatever port is nearest the WW/wight horde, fight and defeat the Others with dragon fire, and then be crowned Queen alongside Jon, the other hero of the war who has been revealed as the product of R+L. It's just a matter of her getting the message about the WW and her realizing that there won't be Seven kingdoms to rule unless she accepts her role as Azor Ahai and frees them from the WW threat.

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You know nothing. No way GRRM gives a warm, fuzzy ending. None.

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I don't think Dany conquers Westeros at all. I think the first thing she does when arriving in Westeros is park her ships at Eastwatch-By-The-Sea or whatever port is nearest the WW/wight horde, fight and defeat the Others with dragon fire, and then be crowned Queen alongside Jon, the other hero of the war who has been revealed as the product of R+L. It's just a matter of her getting the message about the WW and her realizing that there won't be Seven kingdoms to rule unless she accepts her role as Azor Ahai and frees them from the WW threat.

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You know nothing. No way GRRM gives a warm, fuzzy ending. None.

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calling my shot.

Screen goes black with Jon bleeding out on the Iron Throne, WW surrounding the Red Keep, and Dany looking down from Drogons back.

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That was it, thanks.

Do y'all think book Thorne had any part in Jon's murder? iirc, he is not even at castle black, but at one of the other keeps?

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He definitely wasn't at Castle Black in the books. I doubt he really had anything to do with the scheme. If I recall, correctly, he announces his intent to march on Winterfell and asks any from the Wildlings and Night's Watch that might be willing to accompany him. As soon as he does that, a few people walk out or do something that seems to indicate that they were waiting to see if he would indeed do something like this. Pretty soon after, they stab him. I don't remember how much time passes, but I doubt they had any time to message Thorne about it.

Right, I was just wondering if it's likely that they had maybe been discussing things prior, and if he was still around at any point when "talks" might have occured. It was definitely an "ok, we gotta do this now," but it feels like there had to be some prior discussion about it.

I think that's just a show thing. Limiting of characters.

Side note: Dinklage looks more like Tyrion from my imagination without the beard.

One can argue why the heck did they reintroduce Rickon Stark? Esp showing him to us in one rando episode, and then nothing. Perhaps because later this season or even in the next few seasons, he has something to contribute. That's why you reintroduce characters. Just saying.

Edit: also meant to say it'd be a pretty big contribution for Benjen to save Bran and Meera and bring them south of the wall... A good reason for a reintroduction. I could be wrong about all of this of course... But as I see it, Bran and Meera are in not a very good place with walkers behind them and the Night's King coming after him. And he can't die, because we have to get confirmation that R+L=J, or I think people will revolt

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Who becomes the "big bad" if Ramsay is killed this season? I know Cersei is still around and it seems like Euron is a villain since he is pursuing a redeemed Theon. Does this season see the end of human villains in favor of white walkers? Somebody posted earlier that the final scene this season might be a crack developing at the Wall.

One of the strengths of this show is that it has had really villainous characters (Joffrey, Cersei, Thorne, Ramsay, Freys).

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It would be interesting to see Dany become the next "villain" as she tries to conquer the 7 kingdoms with a Dothraki horde, slaves and dragons.

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Now, that would be GRRM worthy. A battle where there is no true bad guy for the audience to root against. A fandom Civil War of sorts. All while knowing the true enemy approaches north of the wall.

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Sam is never going to be a great fighter. Thorne disliked Jon bc of his "better than everyone" attitude. When Jon put that aside, Thorne kept on hating him, probably bc he stuck up for Sam.

I don't remember, was there more to his dislike of Jon...something personal?

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Who becomes the "big bad" if Ramsay is killed this season? I know Cersei is still around and it seems like Euron is a villain since he is pursuing a redeemed Theon. Does this season see the end of human villains in favor of white walkers? Somebody posted earlier that the final scene this season might be a crack developing at the Wall.

One of the strengths of this show is that it has had really villainous characters (Joffrey, Cersei, Thorne, Ramsay, Freys).

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The white walkers.