Unrelated to the Doom discussion, I find it really interesting that we're introducing Adamantium when everyone knows that mutants are coming into the MCU soon...

fig96 said:

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These aren't lasting long...

New look at the full teaser for ‘FANTASTIC FOUR: FIRST STEPS’. pic.twitter.com/eaCBIA644w

— MCU PRIME TV (@MCUPRIMETV) July 28, 2024

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That was … fantastic!

I'll see myself out now.

Quinn said:

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If you want to understand Robert Downey Jr. as Doom, you MUST read Ultimates 4 on sept 4th. (or whenever it comes out) pic.twitter.com/oHVVeTdNwE

— Deniz Camp (@DenizCamp) July 28, 2024

Tweet is from the comic writer.

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Will be picking this up, the past Ultimates series have been outstanding.

swimmerbabe11 said:

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Average Joe said:

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I dunno. If he's really a Tony Stark gone rogue, then this puts a black spot on one of the best character growth story arcs ever.

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yup.
They killed him in one of the most poignant and iconic cinematic character deaths in our lifetime...and it just feels like (and I hate myself for saying this about a comic book character) it's desecration of his grave. Let him rest in peace!

It just feels like it throws endgame away and if there is any character that I feel like they should have made untouchable for that, it's Stark.

As I type this, my brain is screaming to leave Steve Roger's alone as well..but still.

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Agree with all of this. Move on. The past is the past. Give us something original to enjoy. Most of us had no knowledge of Guardians of the Galaxy going into it but now love that group.

Cromagnum said:

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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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fig96 said:

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These aren't lasting long...

New look at the full teaser for ‘FANTASTIC FOUR: FIRST STEPS’. pic.twitter.com/eaCBIA644w

— MCU PRIME TV (@MCUPRIMETV) July 28, 2024

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That was … fantastic!

I'll see myself out now.

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Looks awful just like the other FF movies unfortunately.

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We get it.

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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So is it confirmed that Dr. Doom will in fact be some multi-verse Tony Stark? I'm not good with that idea, for as excited as I was for the MCU's attempt at telling these multi-verse stories, I am now of the mind that it was a complete failure.

I had seen reports that Deadpool and Wolverine was going to put the stake through the multi-verse, but I left that theater thinking that wasn't really the case. I think the suggestion of having multiple actors - male, female, what-have-you - portraying the Kang variants would have been a great idea, and might have salvaged the MCU's multi-verse. Ultimately, it wasn't Jonathan Majors that was the problem in the MCU's multi-verse; it was stories that neither resonated with audiences nor moved the overall story forward in ways this audience had come to expect with Marvel. Although with Majors being all the Kangs, his personal downfall certainly didn't help.

Now if this is simply an evil character that RDJ is going to portray, then I can be good with that. Another thought focuses on the directors of the next Avengers movies, who already have proven themselves above and beyond all other directors in this overall franchise, and then some, by making the last two Captain America movies and the last two Avengers (3 of those are at the top of my MCU rankings, with the 4th coming in behind the original Iron Man and Avengers movies).

Give us good stories centered around what I would say is a more recognizable villain than Thanos was prior to 2012 when we first got a glimpse of him, and these movies will probably return to the 2008-2019 form.

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As someone said earlier, the Russos literally introduced him as "Victor von Doom," so I'm not 100% sure.

I wonder if the character could have the same parents, but instead of growing up in America, his family is from Latveria or wherever. Like, maybe in this universe something went different with Howard Stark during World War II, and "Tony" ended up being born in Latveria instead. Something along those lines.

TCTTS said:

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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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So is it confirmed that Dr. Doom will in fact be some multi-verse Tony Stark? I'm not good with that idea, for as excited as I was for the MCU's attempt at telling these multi-verse stories, I am now of the mind that it was a complete failure.

I had seen reports that Deadpool and Wolverine was going to put the stake through the multi-verse, but I left that theater thinking that wasn't really the case. I think the suggestion of having multiple actors - male, female, what-have-you - portraying the Kang variants would have been a great idea, and might have salvaged the MCU's multi-verse. Ultimately, it wasn't Jonathan Majors that was the problem in the MCU's multi-verse; it was stories that neither resonated with audiences nor moved the overall story forward in ways this audience had come to expect with Marvel. Although with Majors being all the Kangs, his personal downfall certainly didn't help.

Now if this is simply an evil character that RDJ is going to portray, then I can be good with that. Another thought focuses on the directors of the next Avengers movies, who already have proven themselves above and beyond all other directors in this overall franchise, and then some, by making the last two Captain America movies and the last two Avengers (3 of those are at the top of my MCU rankings, with the 4th coming in behind the original Iron Man and Avengers movies).

Give us good stories centered around what I would say is a more recognizable villain than Thanos was prior to 2012 when we first got a glimpse of him, and these movies will probably return to the 2008-2019 form.

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As someone said earlier, the Russos literally introduced him as "Victor von Doom," so I'm not 100% sure.

I wonder if the character could have the same parents, but instead of growing up in America, his family is from Latveria or wherever. Like, maybe in this universe something went different with Howard Stark during World War II, and "Tony" ended up being born in Latveria instead. Something along those lines.

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That's a good thought . think of all the scientists we took from Germany to the US after WWII. If Germany would have won, they would have taken Howard for sure.

Anyone who has an issue with the @MarvelStudios news or @deadpoolmovie or whatever, that's fine, but realize this will keep theaters running for years. It will fund all the indie movies you want for decades. This pays the bills. It absolutely HELPS film and art, not hurts. pic.twitter.com/oeLZVfF1w2

— EmpireCity Box Office (@EmpireCityBO) July 28, 2024

Also I wonder if Latveria has any relation to sokovia in the new universe especially with Wanda and Pietro being mutants in the 616 universe and mutants taking on new importance from here on out

Yeah, that could be kind of cool to tie some of that together in a way.

The more I think about #RobertDowneyJr as #DoctorDoom, the more it makes sense.

What better way to end the Multiverse Saga than with a huge villain who looks exactly like the hero of heroes who used to lead the Avengers?

Dare I say.....I'm all in?#AvengersDoomsday pic.twitter.com/7MprORyITp

— Richard Nebens (@RichardNebens) July 28, 2024

I think I'm coming around on the casting in general...

Again, we're presumably going to have to live with this character for only three years. This isn't some decade-long play where they're going to tease the next Thanos or whoever for years and years, and really draw it out.

Also, the last four years of the MCU have been so bad that, personally, I simply don't care as much as I used to. While I'm definitely excited for a number of projects on the upcoming slate, I'm not as "precious" about the whole thing as I would have been pre-Endgame. So at this point I'm kind of like, "Sure, whatever," and I at least get the vision/reasoning.

In an ideal world, they would have jumped straight to integrating the new iteration of the X-Men after Endgame, but didn't have enough time after the Fox merger, which essentially caught everyone off guard. Then Covid hit, Boseman died, two unprecedented industry strikes happened, Majors went nuts, etc, and because of those things, this whole phase has felt like treading water at best, and a train wreck at worst.

Now, they finally know what they're doing with the new iteration of the X-Men, and these next three years are basically an effort to salvage what they cane of the post-Endgame era while setting up the X-Men in the process. So, in that sense, if they want to bring Downey Jr. back to help make that transition - and make it as profitable as possible in the process - more power to them.

RikkiTikkaTagem said:

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Also I wonder if Latveria has any relation to sokovia in the new universe especially with Wanda and Pietro being mutants in the 616 universe and mutants taking on new importance from here on out

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Secret Wars is also very mutant heavy in the original storylines, I'm curious to see if they bring in any of those or use that to somehow introduce some new characters.

Ok I laughed WAY too hard at this

Didn't realize the tweet above said the same thing

Rumors going around that I'm going to go ahead and black out….you have been warned….

It seems like there's a credible rumor that RDJ is going to be back in both his new role as Doom but also as another iteration as Iron Man. Obviously we won't know if this is right for a good number of years but we're going to get more than one version of RDJ over this series of films and since the suits he wears are going to be mostly CGI it'll be easy to hide this during production and shooting….

Again….rumors….but this is coming from the same people that rumored this very thing with RDJ and Doom….

Only time will tell….

Interesting. Wouldn't surprise me, and would also account for some of the confusion in the rumors/reporting.

Seems to me they're potentially setting up Reed Richards to be the Tony Stark of his universe. It's almost as if Richard's existence cancels out Stark's in some way, so "Stark" had to become something else in their world...

I love that the Baxter Building in Fantastic Four First Steps not only encompasses the part of midtown Manhattan where Avengers Tower is in 616, but they mowed down SEVERAL SQUARE BLOCKS for it and built a Stan Lee catchphrase launchpad in the Hudson.

God bless retrofuturism! pic.twitter.com/9sE26Evojp

— Erik Voss (@eavoss) July 28, 2024

Catching up on SDCC news, now that I've seen Deadpool.

Some thoughts:
1) While I don't love the potential idea of a non-Victor Von Doom Dr. Doom (ie if it's an alternate Tony Stark), there are some ways they could make it work. Parents were forced to work for Hydra, he became an orphan, took the name because he didn't know his parents, eventually became ruler of Latveria, etc.

2) I don't think Doom should be a two-and-done villain. This is sort of the No Way Home problem. Willem Dafoe was such a good Green Goblin, but now the MCU is robbed of all the non-Goblin Norman Osborn stuff because they don't have their own. There are ways around that with Doom, but... we'll see. If the two RDJ Doom appearances work as well as they hope, will anyone be excited for a Mads Mikkelson MCU-born Doom?

3) The lineup for the next 3 years is...

2025: Captain America, Thunderbolts, Fantastic Four
2026: Blade (MAYBE), Avengers Doomsday
2027: Avengers Secret Wars

That is the most interconnected a 3-year stretch has been since Phase 1. Rumor has it that Red Hulk may play a role in Thunderbolts, and I saw reported from SDCC that the Fantastic Four will be in both Avengers movies and the Thunderbolts will be in one, maybe Secret Wars. I'm putting spoilers there just in case, I guess.

4) Now, having just seen Deadpool, (DEADPOOL AND WOLVERINE SPOILERS) I'm thinking we may not get as much multiverse to Secret Wars as previously thought, or at least not Fox Universe fan service type stuff? If DP3 was the farewell to that universe, I don't need to see Ion Gruffudd's Mister Fantastic or James Marsden again as Cyclops. I don't even need to see mutants - any mutants but Deadpool, potentially. They'll have their hands full as-is with Fantastic Four, Avengers, RDJ's Doom, and presumably Doctor Strange and maybe Wanda.

5) We'll see what they do at D23, but when this lineup looking as concise and put together as it is, I'm wondering if the Disney+ stuff is going to prove to be as inconsequential as the ABC and Netflix stuff ended up being. At one point they tried to plan around releases (specifically Agents of Shield) and then eventually they were just cut out entirely.

You could do a Disney+ extended universe of sorts, and Disney+ crossovers, but I think the TV-to-movie experiment has had mixed results (Doctor Strange 2 worked, but nobody knew who 2/3 of the Marvels were). So maybe Disney+ builds towards some kind of Young Avengers crossover, with your Hawkeyes and your Ms Marvels and your Agathas and your Ironhearts. But I don't think we'll need Ms. Marvel or She-Hulk or Moon Knight in Secret Wars.

6) Like TCTTS said, after Secret Wars your third Saga can be mutants, and I think people will be very ready for that. And assuming (Deadpool spoilers again) there's no mush-together of Fox universes, you can finally - 8 or 9 years after Dark Phoenix - have fresh takes on fresher characters we haven't already beaten into the ground (as well as still-unused villains like Mister Sinister or Omega Red).

And then, not too long into that new saga you have an Avengers vs. X-Men? I could be down for that. That could make a billion.

jokershady said:

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Rumors going around that I'm going to go ahead and black out….you have been warned….

It seems like there's a credible rumor that RDJ is going to be back in both his new role as Doom but also as another iteration as Iron Man. Obviously we won't know if this is right for a good number of years but we're going to get more than one version of RDJ over this series of films and since the suits he wears are going to be mostly CGI it'll be easy to hide this during production and shooting….

Again….rumors….but this is coming from the same people that rumored this very thing with RDJ and Doom….

Only time will tell….

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Oh for ****'s sake, if true then this Marvel news just keeps getting worse and worse.

I'm all in on this. They had to course correct. This makes sense to a.) get people interested in where they're building to b.) hit the nostalgia c.) craft a story that **should** have emotional payoff with RDJ going from hero to villain in the eyes of our Avengers. When you have to course correct in the middle of a saga due to bad creative choices and Majors' drama, this may be the best thing they could've crafted.

I think it's pretty cool, if they can keep him Tony from another universe and still figure out a way to give him VVD as a Nom De Guerre organically in the story.

Would prefer if they have him in the actual suit though, not just him in a voice booth somewhere for the majority of the movie. Realistically Doom could be about as mobile as Darth Vader, so even with RDJ's age, it should work. You are already going to have a lot of CGI with the F4 crew, so the villain should be fairly practical imo.

I was so excited to see RDJ really take his career to new and more exciting places after the MCU. It sucks that he’s chosen to just follow his next big paycheck pic.twitter.com/BgCtyJWTh0

— Mike Carolla (@SJTimes13) July 28, 2024

I don’t think it’s about the money necessarily I think he loves the adulation. Like you don’t get this response when you are announced in a Park Chan Wook miniseries https://t.co/a5BxuKg78Q

— åπd®ew 🐢🐢🐢 (@Andrew__Boley) July 28, 2024

My note on the Robert Downey Jr. news is I remember him talking about how being in independent films could be a more gruelling experience.https://t.co/XaHtAquq8k pic.twitter.com/TCxbz1qXEd

— Val (@VK_HM) July 28, 2024

What if we're all overthinking this because we know it to be a multiverse saga? What if it's sort of like Mysterio and RDJ's Von Doom is actually the MCU's Von Doom but he's wearing Tony Stark's face to sow confusion and discredit the Avengers and take them out of the fight before they can stop him? We've already seen that technology 3 times in the MCU after all (Winter Soldier, Civil War, Falcon & Winter Soldier).

I don't think it's likely but it'd certainly play against our expectations - and would achieve the goal of having a genuine MCU Doom without all the alternate-universe shenanigans.

Side note: I've long thought that Latveria could be a neighboring country to Sokovia. Perhaps they've annexed Sokovia and Doom has siphoned all their international aid to himself. Latveria is a very North Korea type of place - opulent palace, citizens in squalor.

TONIGHT on THE INSNEIDER: Inside Robert Downey Jr.'s return to the MCU, his casting as Doctor Doom, and his massive salary -- $50 million per movie, with the chance to double it based on box office incentives. This one is FREE to read... no paywall!https://t.co/r7vmusbqVP

— Jeff Sneider (@TheInSneider) July 30, 2024

Robert Downey Jr is getting paid “significantly more” than $80M to star as Doctor Doom in the next 2 Avengers movies.

He also only agreed to return on the condition that The Russos would direct the films.

(Source: https://t.co/QOgBfyLWP1) pic.twitter.com/6PxEcpFGNc

— DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm) July 30, 2024

Robert Downey Jr has earned around $500M - $600M from the MCU so far.

He will now also get perks that include private jet travel, dedicated security and a whole “trailer encampment.”

(Source: https://t.co/QOgBfyLWP1) pic.twitter.com/ddAEEzt26D

— DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm) July 30, 2024

Theory:
It's revealed that Tony was the "anchor being" of the Sacred Timeline. The 616 universe is now dying and to solve this problem the Avengers pull a Stark variant into their universe. They slowly realize he's not the Stark they hoped for and he's actually Doctor Doom. pic.twitter.com/OkgeNqCSn1

— Aaron S Bailey 🍿 (@AaronBaileyArt) July 29, 2024

Anchor being is like "Stark Prime"?

I hope anchor beings are never mentioned again, except in bad fan theories, because the movie states that typically that universe decays over thousands of years. So there'd be no urgency for the Avengers.

I think in D&W it only works in a kind of meta "without Wolverine, nobody cared anymore" kind of way.