It's also weird that they're just doing the whole Peter Parker thing over again, except with Kamala, in how she reacts to everyone. She's a fun character in general, but overall I watch that trailer and think "Why?"

maroon barchetta said:

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TCTTS said:

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Yeah, I'd say I'm more confident now than ever in my bet. Not that this looks particularly bad - I can see how it might be fun - but it's apparent (to me at least) that it's not something that's going to excite the masses. That, and releasing just a week after Dune: Part Two, which could very well end up being the movie of the year, is a huge mistake.

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You are maybe going to lose this one. I was confident in your wager until I saw the trailer.

This is going to bring in lots of female viewers of all ages and also bring in demographics that didn't care about that Capt. Marvel movie.

Reaching new audiences is part of the goal and they put a good plan together.

Whether the movie will be good, I don't know.

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This is what movies seem to have turned into. Get as many people there to make money even if the movie ain't great.

Not smack dab in the middle of the fall, with school and sports and everything else that's going on. There's a huge swath of people who won't be going to the theater two weekends in a row, and will choose one movie or the other. My bet is more of them choose the one that comes out first, and will almost assuredly be better.

Meanwhile, the past two superhero movies have bombed, while Dune's stock is going way up.

TCTTS said:

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Meanwhile, the past two superhero movies have bombed, while Dune's stock is going way up.

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I think you may be overestimating the excitement level for Dune. I don't know that many people who ever saw the first one, even when on HBOMax.

Edit: any non-nerdy types like those of us who frequent the entertainment board, lol

TCTTS said:

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I'm not so sure. Hardly anyone knows who Teyona Parris/Monica Rambeau is, same as Iman Velloni/Kamala Khan. Compared to the rest of the MCU, those are two incredibly minor characters suddenly leading a blockbuster. Yes, the small audience who watched Ms. Marvel is passionate about the character, but again… it's a small audience. And it's not like Brie Larson as Captain Marvel was a huge hit. Beyond the three of them I was expecting some extra x-factor but I'm just not seeing it. Granted, again, it could end up being a fantastic movie, and if so maybe that gets its over the hump, but I'd be surprised.

I also don't think people realize how big the Dune sequel is going to be. The first movie was almost universally well-received, and its status/audience has only grown considerably since its release. It also stars FOUR of the biggest 20-something actors on the planet… Chalamet, Zendaya, Florence Pugh, and Austin Butler. There's absolutely no competing with that cast, and in that regard (if not in all regards) The Marvels pales in comparison.

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Is Dune a 3 parter? I definitely need to rewatch the first before the next installment comes ou

Two movies for the first Dune book.

I'm guessing after this second part we will know if they decide to move forward with the second book, but I'm fine with them stopping after the first. Guess we'll see.

That trailer looks fine. I suspect the movie will, ultimately, be just a blip in people's memories, but it'll be a fun movie to see once or twice.

Regarding Dune, I'd say that people will have some interest in seeing that and also seeing The Marvels, but in general, Dune is going to appeal to a somewhat different audience. There is a hell of a lot more going on in Dune, story-wise, character-wise, etc, but also it brings in a group that has read the books and just want to see it done right on the big screen. DV did a great job with Part 1 and I expect no less in Part 2. Something like The Marvels is pretty much a turn off your brain and just watch the thing.

What it's going to boil down to is when each will go to streaming. If Marvels can hold off until February or March for streaming, then it can rake in some good money over the holidays. Think the max it could make is 700 million, but if it goes to steaming in December, then people will just wait. Same with WB and Dune 2. Marvels seems to be more of a friendly streaming movie vs Dune 2.

I think you've got that backwards. Neither movie will be put on their respective streaming services if they are still making good money at the box office.

The Porkchop Express said:

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The real key for the Marvels success might lie in how good GOTG3 and Secret Invasion are. If those 2 projects get Marvel back on track, then the Marvels will have the chance to ride that crest as some of companies have done in the past, including the original Captain Marvel.

I'm sure Dune will be a more satisfying movie for fans of the first film and the books, which many of us are, but having the Marvels as an option for Thanksgiving and into Christmas is a great way to get a lot of families to go see it. I dont' think a ton of families are going to go see Dune Part 2 together. So not sure how much those audiences are going to overlap.

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I think Marvel suffered from not releasing a big name property followed by a new name property for the beginning of Phase 4. Either that or at the end of the new name properties, the end credits should have tied to the big name properties. Honestly, both is what they probably should have done.

I realize the pandemic changed things, and they were most likely banking on the momentum of Endgame to get them through Eternals, Black Widow, and Shang-Chi.

But, there is no overall connection between the movies in Phase 4, and I think that was a mistake by Marvel. Marvel did so well putting a scene from the next or next to next movie in the credits, and it just built a wave. They easily could have put some sort of short teaser for GOTG3 or Antman at the end of Thor and started some momentum. Don't know why they decided against doing so.

I will be honest, I watched every Marvel movie in theater up to Endgame. I did not see Dr. Strange 2, Eternals, Antman & Wasp, or Black Panther in theater. I think it's because I don't feel a sense I need to watch them to have all the parts for a bigger story. I think that's why a lot of people aren't watching and why they are "bombing" in comparison to themselves.

TCTTS said:

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It's also weird that they're just doing the whole Peter Parker thing over again, except with Kamala, in how she reacts to everyone. She's a fun character in general, but overall I watch that trailer and think "Why?"

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I'm ok with it, mainly because Peter and she are taking the role of the fan. We would react similarly I'm sure. Just puts of positive vibes, and honestly, Marvel needs to get back to some of that comic book fan fun stuff.

Beat40 said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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The real key for the Marvels success might lie in how good GOTG3 and Secret Invasion are. If those 2 projects get Marvel back on track, then the Marvels will have the chance to ride that crest as some of companies have done in the past, including the original Captain Marvel.

I'm sure Dune will be a more satisfying movie for fans of the first film and the books, which many of us are, but having the Marvels as an option for Thanksgiving and into Christmas is a great way to get a lot of families to go see it. I dont' think a ton of families are going to go see Dune Part 2 together. So not sure how much those audiences are going to overlap.

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I think Marvel suffered from not releasing a big name property followed by a new name property for the beginning of Phase 4. Either that or at the end of the new name properties, the end credits should have tied to the big name properties. Honestly, both is what they probably should have done.

I realize the pandemic changed things, and they were most likely banking on the momentum of Endgame to get them through Eternals, Black Widow, and Shang-Chi.

But, there is no overall connection between the movies in Phase 4, and I think that was a mistake by Marvel. Marvel did so well putting a scene from the next or next to next movie in the credits, and it just built a wave. They easily could have put some sort of short teaser for GOTG3 or Antman at the end of Thor and started some momentum. Don't know why they decided against doing so.

I will be honest, I watched every Marvel movie in theater up to Endgame. I did not see Dr. Strange 2, Eternals, Antman & Wasp, or Black Panther in theater. I think it's because I don't feel a sense I need to watch them to have all the parts for a bigger story. I think that's why a lot of people aren't watching and why they are "bombing" in comparison to themselves.

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I think it's much less your first point and more your second point. Remember, you had No Way Home immediately after Endgame, plus Black Widow should have been considered a big property given the role she played in the Avengers. Of course, her movie a) came after she was already dead, and b) wasn't particularly good.

The lack of connection is definitely on point. I know we've discussed plenty on here how rudderless the MCU has felt throughout Phase 4. I feel like they had a real chance to tie in Cap and Iron Man being gone to create a weakness for someone like a Kang or Doom to emerge as a threat, but I think they genuinely did not know what direction they wanted to go and didn't want to lose momentum, so they just continued pushing out individual movies.

bluefire579 said:

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Beat40 said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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The real key for the Marvels success might lie in how good GOTG3 and Secret Invasion are. If those 2 projects get Marvel back on track, then the Marvels will have the chance to ride that crest as some of companies have done in the past, including the original Captain Marvel.

I'm sure Dune will be a more satisfying movie for fans of the first film and the books, which many of us are, but having the Marvels as an option for Thanksgiving and into Christmas is a great way to get a lot of families to go see it. I dont' think a ton of families are going to go see Dune Part 2 together. So not sure how much those audiences are going to overlap.

---

I think Marvel suffered from not releasing a big name property followed by a new name property for the beginning of Phase 4. Either that or at the end of the new name properties, the end credits should have tied to the big name properties. Honestly, both is what they probably should have done.

I realize the pandemic changed things, and they were most likely banking on the momentum of Endgame to get them through Eternals, Black Widow, and Shang-Chi.

But, there is no overall connection between the movies in Phase 4, and I think that was a mistake by Marvel. Marvel did so well putting a scene from the next or next to next movie in the credits, and it just built a wave. They easily could have put some sort of short teaser for GOTG3 or Antman at the end of Thor and started some momentum. Don't know why they decided against doing so.

I will be honest, I watched every Marvel movie in theater up to Endgame. I did not see Dr. Strange 2, Eternals, Antman & Wasp, or Black Panther in theater. I think it's because I don't feel a sense I need to watch them to have all the parts for a bigger story. I think that's why a lot of people aren't watching and why they are "bombing" in comparison to themselves.

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I think it's much less your first point and more your second point. Remember, you had No Way Home immediately after Endgame, plus Black Widow should have been considered a big property given the role she played in the Avengers. Of course, her movie a) came after she was already dead, and b) wasn't particularly good.

The lack of connection is definitely on point. I know we've discussed plenty on here how rudderless the MCU has felt throughout Phase 4. I feel like they had a real chance to tie in Cap and Iron Man being gone to create a weakness for someone like a Kang or Doom to emerge as a threat, but I think they genuinely did not know what direction they wanted to go and didn't want to lose momentum, so they just continued pushing out individual movies.

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To your first paragraph, No Way Home came out after Black Widow, Eternals, and Shang-Chi. Sure, all of those were in the same year, but No Way Home should have been the first movie of Phase 4. I entirely agree with your point on Black Widow and even think it should have been made and released before Endgame.

I also wonder if instead of going with the multi-verse of maddness route, they should have done secret invasion.

AgfromHOU said:

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Dare I say that The Marvels looks like fun?

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If the trailer is any indication, it appears they've tried to give Captain Marvel more personality and humor...kind of like what Ragnarok did for Thor. Her character needs that badly. They made her look too stiff in the first film and Endgame. Monica's character is also VERY serious, so that wouldn't have paired well.

Kamala's 'Peter Parker' demeanor definitely seems copied, but her personality is also needed to balance things out. It's obvious that Marvel wants to make Monica and Kamala bigger priorities by bringing them into a film that's basically Captain Marvel 2.

Hopefully this doesn't take itself too seriously and can be a fun ride. We'll see.

Marvel should have brought in mutants at the end of phase 3. Have the Hulk snap screw with the DNA of the people that came back.

I don't agree. The last X-Men movie was just in 2019 so that would have been too soon IMO - plus it's harder to have it where some of these characters (Wolverine, Magneto, Apocalypse, Sinister) have any kind of history if they all got powers after the Snap.

We'll get there though… if the MCU goes downhill, maybe the X-Men can bail it out.

So much has happened in the MCU it gets really difficult to just fit something in that was there all along, but didn't have any impact or was known by anyone. I doubt it'll ever happen but I think a parallel Mutant Cinematic Universe would be awesome. Built it similar to how the MCU was in phase 1/2. Then go the multiverse route again to connect the MCU and Mutant CU.

Working mutants into the current MCU is going to be hard to do, given there's been no hint of them this whole time…

I wonder if Marvel would have the guts to use the multiverse as an excuse for a kind of reboot of the MCU…

Imagine Kang or some other big bad succeeds and destroys the MCU we know, but one or two characters manage to flee through the multiverse to a new universe where mutants have been around forever and some heroes like Ironman and captain America haven't emerged or retired / died yet. You get to reintroduce a whole new generation of everyone's favorite heroes + mutants *and* you'd have the threat of the big bad who destroyed the current universe lurking out there and one or two multi-universal refugees trying to get the new universe's heroes ready and aligned to stop that big bad when they get there


As an added benefit, this lets Marvel cull the storylines and characters that aren't resonating and use what they've learned to reboot them more successfully