Wow. So Episode IX, the Star Wars live-action show, AND Star Wars Land all within like a two month window? That's insane.

My junior year at A&M (95) went to Disney with my brother, sister in law and parents. It had poured rain and we went on Star Tours twice. Second time just me and my dad, who at age 47 said "let's not put the seatbelts on and see how cool it is." I agreed cuz my dad is awesome. But before it started up we got a canned video of 3PO saying "Oh my it appears soe of our passengers are not following correct safety protocol."

I saw JW at the Hollywood Bowl last September when the Ags were at UCLA. Two things:

1. It truly was one of the best experiences in my life to hear JW lead an orchestra playing the Star Wars theme and Imperial March. An absolute must if you get the chance.

2. I had a much better time at the concert than I had at the game.

This is a good (albeit long) watch.

At the risk of being shouted down for responding to the video (don't read if you don't want to read more criticism from me for TLJ)

I have only watched half of the linked video at this point, but my initial thoughts -

I don't disagree with him on everything, I enjoyed some aspects of the film. I actually kind of liked what they were doing with Luke's character. The problem is, there is no follow-through on the themes, and there are way too many "Ah-ha!" set-ups that weren't worth the pay-off. Holdo is a good example. Yeah, I understand why that character cannot be Akbar (sidenote - I think most wanted Akbar to do the kamikaze bit, not necessarily completely replace Holdo), but the entire plot device is ridiculous. In any military organization, flat-out mutiny is punishable by death. That's a pretty big stretch of the imagination that this guy is just glossing over. I also think it would have gone over better if, rightly or wrongly, it didn't have the feeling to a lot of people of being lectured to about toxic masculinity.

Second, as I said, I liked where they were going with Luke's character. I thought the concept of the Jedi needing to die was an interesting idea and I was excited to see where they were going to go with it. But it doesn't go anywhere. I mean, Rey goes straight for the dark side, but then turns down Ren when he asks her to join him. To have her accept that invitation would have been cool and interesting and would have made sense in the context of where they were setting things up to that point. But they chicken out. Ending the Jedi order would have been cool as well. I personally think the Jedi are boring. I like the light saber battles, but I think the doctrine of the Jedi makes me want to take a nap and I was not a big fan of how they were portrayed in the prequels. But they chicken out of going anywhere with it. Yoda burns down the temple, but "ah-ha!" Rey stole the books. Luke doesn't want to use the force anymore, but "ah-ha!" then he uses the force and saves the resistance (but "ah-ha!" he's not really there, it was all just a projection and now he dies, "ah-ha!" again).

Why did he change his mind? B/c of nostalgia for the good old days? Why set things up to go this way and then back out of it at the end. There was a great philosophical question that was set-up in the first part of that movie - Can somebody justify the existence of the Jedi order? But they never go anywhere with it. They never explain why the Jedi should stay around, even though they seem to make a really compelling argument for why it should end.

Yes, Abrams put Johnson in a tough spot, and to be honest, I think TLJ greatly detracts from the Force Awakens. I think a lot less of that movie now than I did before seeing TLJ. What was the theme of this movie? Rian Johnson wanted to make it layered and deep, but it just comes out as a shallow mess. All of the big moments of the movie, all those gotchas he tried to throw in there just feel fake and not really earned at all. The interesting questions and dilemmas that are raised are never really addressed and answered, they're just glossed over and forgotten in order to get to the next beat of the big blockbuster movie.

In the end, the movie felt to me, and I think to a lot of other people, as a stark criticism of the original trilogy - that the simple stories of good and evil, of a heroic male figure, of redemption, that all that was for simple people and a simple time. There is some nihilism in TLJ and it doesn't fit the franchise and it's executed in such a amateurish way that it comes across as insulting rather than thought provoking.

Man, it's really time to move on. Eight months later and someone goes to all that trouble to explain why they like TLJ. This is being so over-thought to the point of absurdity.

What Johnson did with Luke's character and/or not playing by "the Star Wars rules" is not why I found TLJ to be an extremely mediocre film. I found it solidly mediocre because the plot is boring and uninspired, the characters (for the most part) are uninteresting and undeveloped, and tone teeters on being too preachy. Further, for me anyway, it's irritating to create so much intrigue and interest over Snoke, Luke's saber, Maz, Phasma, etc, to have these characters and plot devices turn out to be meaningless and/or discarded.

It's just not a good film. And no amount of arguing different perspectives is going to change that.

Quote:

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It's just not a good film. And no amount of arguing different perspectives is going to change that.

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In your opinion.

Urban Ag said:

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It's just not a good film. And no amount of arguing different perspectives is going to change that.

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Well, not really, just wanted to use this gif.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Quote:

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It's just not a good film. And no amount of arguing different perspectives is going to change that.

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In your opinion.

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of course. It's my opinion. I don't think I'm in the minority here, but it's still just an opinion.

Time will not be kind to TLJ.

Ep 9 will be a major factor in what the legacy of TLJ will be.

I appreciate certain points made in the video, but he does get a decent amount of fans' complaints wrong. In particular...

- Canto Blight didn't suck because of the pacing. No editing could fix it. Canto Bight sucked because it played and looked like something directly out of the prequels, no one gives a sh*t about freeing make-believe, CGI animals (I'll re-iterate that they needed to free the children instead), and it was straight up preposterous that the "only" code breaker in the galaxy who could help them was the guy with the rose pin... until the only *other* guy in the galaxy who could help them happened to then be in jail with them. I couldn't believe that was an actual plot point.

- Same with the whole Holdo thing. I didn't dislike her because I didn't get the point of her, or misunderstood the message/dynamic, or wanted Ackbar in the role instead. I disliked her because the toxic masculinity message was so incredibly on the nose. I don't even disagree with the message itself, it's just how self-righteous and condescending that whole character and plot-line came across. I like Poe coming to that realization and the result of his arc in general, but that was just the most frustrating and pretentious way to get him there.

Which leads to my biggest problem with the movie, something I haven't really been able to articulate until now...

The entire movie is rooted in INACTION.

The second act of any movie - and thus the second act of any trilogy - is almost always where the bulk of the action takes place. It's the fun and games, where the big car chase takes place, etc. It's the "promise of the premise" and where the movie really happens. And yet, so many storylines in TLJ are about NOT taking action or NOT advancing...

- Rey basically reaches a stalemate with Luke, who simply wants to *exist*, to NOT help, NOT train, NOT fight, etc. And even when he finally does decide to "fight"... he doesn't, and instead does the whole hologram projection thing.

- Poe is lectured over and over and over again to NOT take action, to NOT be the hero.

- The Resistance's entire strategy is to STALL, just out of range of the The First Order. To NOT go anywhere and to literally WAIT them out.

- Finn's initial impulse is yet again to RETREAT. Granted, he finally has something to fight for by the end, but getting him to that point was dependent on the worst plot-line of the movie.

- Rose's infamous spiel toward the end is of course to NOT fight, but to love.

- Even Kylo is so focused on "killing the past" that he, too, is seemingly incapable of advancing or evolving.

And look, again, in a vacuum, I'm not against any of these messages/themes/arcs. I get where the characters are coming from, and I get what Johnson was trying to say/do. On a certain level, it all makes sense. But what it boils down to is simple... "inaction" should straight up NOT be the major theme of a Star Wars movie, and the second one in a trilogy at that. That's why even though most of it checks out logically, none of it checks out viscerally. It was one of the rare times I've sat in a theater and understood - and even respected - nearly all of the choices made, but simply didn't connect to any of it emotionally or cinematically. Because inaction is basically the antithesis of what cinema is.

And yes, I fully agree that Abrams and TFA are the root of many of TLJ's problems. I've been arguing that point since day one. But there had to have been a better, more progressive way to address those issues than what Johnson ultimately came up with. The video did a great job of explaining why Luke's situation/arc basically had to be what it was, and I agree for the most part, but to then root every other story line in that same, stale, inaction was not a wise choice, IMO. It's as simple as that.