I don't think Rian **** on the possibility that much. There is enough ambiguity there. Kylo preyed on Rey's fears.
Star Wars Discussion Thread
6,880,086 Views |
46072 Replies |
Last: 15 hrs ago by YouBet
Especially knowing that it HAD to come up in VIII.
AgMarauder04 said:
Well, we know nothing about them. For all we know, she was lied to in VIII. JJ can fix it if he wants to in IX
Yep, just waive it away as Kyle having lied and that it was simply just her worst fear being nobody from nowhere. Pop in Ewan McGregor to do some voice over work, and have force ghost Luke tell her the story of Kenobi and that she's some how related to him.
Rey's fear and Kylo's revelation could be founded in some truth. She could have great lineage and still have drunken, loser parents. Kylo can't be trusted.
Ren's obsession with getting Rey to let go is clearly a ploy. He believed playing on her fears and putting a shameful past in front of her would make it easy for her to let it all go. But, she resists.
Ren's obsession with getting Rey to let go is clearly a ploy. He believed playing on her fears and putting a shameful past in front of her would make it easy for her to let it all go. But, she resists.
To have Rey's parents be no bodies after all that build up, only to then reverse on that and essentially say, "Sike! You actually ARE a [Skywalker/Kenobi/etc.]" in Episode IX would be incredibly dumb at this point. Just leave it be.
What if her parents really are nobodies, but Obi Wan was around in her childhood?TCTTS said:
To have Rey's parents be no bodies after all that build up, only to then reverse on that and essentially say, "Sike! You actually ARE a [Skywalker/Kenobi/etc.]" in Episode IX would be incredibly dumb at this point. Just leave it be.
In the dream sequence in TFA you can hear Obi Wan say, "Rey these are your first steps."
TCTTS said:
To have Rey's parents be no bodies after all that build up, only to then reverse on that and essentially say, "Sike! You actually ARE a [Skywalker/Kenobi/etc.]" in Episode IX would be incredibly dumb at this point. Just leave it be.
If what Pegg says is true, then shame on JJ and shame on Disney for not making it happen. At the very least, have some ground rules for Rian.
TCTTS said:
To have Rey's parents be no bodies after all that build up, only to then reverse on that and essentially say, "Sike! You actually ARE a [Skywalker/Kenobi/etc.]" in Episode IX would be incredibly dumb at this point. Just leave it be.
I have to disagree.
Having Ren manipulate it and lay out her worse fear as fact would be right in line with the dark side. Giving her some kind of lineage would be fine.
Having her come out of nowhere and being nobody, and being more powerful than Luke or Anakin who are arguably two of the most powerful force users in canon (excluding Revan from Legends) and giving the explanation as "the force wills it" like It came from Lucas is awful IMO.
I'd rather JJ explain it as Kylo lied to try and being Rey over to his side and have an alternative explanation than the "will of the force".
jabberwalkie09 said:
I have to disagree.
Having Ren manipulate it and lay out her worse fear as fact would be right in line with the dark side. Giving her some kind of lineage would be fine.
Having her come out of nowhere and being nobody, and being more powerful than Luke or Anakin who are arguably two of the most powerful force users in canon (excluding Revan from Legends) and giving the explanation as "the force wills it" like It came from Lucas is awful IMO.
I'd rather JJ explain it as Kylo lied to try and being Rey over to his side and have an alternative explanation than the "will of the force".
Am I on TexAgs or SaudiAgs?
The way some people are pushing hard for (and preference of) some kind of special lineage for the key character in a story, one would think this was a forum for alumni from a pro-Queen British school and not for an alumni of a traditionally Republican, American university.
In my opinion making Rey not have any special lineage was the best decision of the new trilogy yet.
The way some people are pushing hard for (and preference of) some kind of special lineage for the key character in a story, one would think this was a forum for alumni from a pro-Queen British school and not for an alumni of a traditionally Republican, American university.
In my opinion making Rey not have any special lineage was the best decision of the new trilogy yet.
jabberwalkie09 said:TCTTS said:
To have Rey's parents be no bodies after all that build up, only to then reverse on that and essentially say, "Sike! You actually ARE a [Skywalker/Kenobi/etc.]" in Episode IX would be incredibly dumb at this point. Just leave it be.
I have to disagree.
Having Ren manipulate it and lay out her worse fear as fact would be right in line with the dark side. Giving her some kind of lineage would be fine.
Having her come out of nowhere and being nobody, and being more powerful than Luke or Anakin who are arguably two of the most powerful force users in canon (excluding Revan from Legends) and giving the explanation as "the force wills it" like It came from Lucas is awful IMO.
I'd rather JJ explain it as Kylo lied to try and being Rey over to his side and have an alternative explanation than the "will of the force".
Except that the entire theme of TLJ is built on the concept that your past is irrelevant and the idea that a nobody can be special. The final shot with broom boy really brings that point home. It's not just a Rey thing. Johnson went all in on that conceit and to then reverse it in IX would be ridiculous.
That said, the thought of Johnson/Abrams one upping each other and basically undoing each other's movies would be kind of hilarious. In the same way Luke threw away his light saber at the beginning of TLJ, what if at the beginning of IX, Obi-Wan' ghost appears out of no where and immediately tells Rey, "Kylo was full of Bantha poodoo. It's me, your grandpa!" [shrug emoji]
And do y'all really think there weren't discussions between JJ, Rian, and Kathleen about this? Just cuz JJ had had the idea of giving her a lineage doesn't mean he doesn't prefer Rians vision. Also he did name Ep VII The Force Awakens.
TCTTS said:jabberwalkie09 said:TCTTS said:
To have Rey's parents be no bodies after all that build up, only to then reverse on that and essentially say, "Sike! You actually ARE a [Skywalker/Kenobi/etc.]" in Episode IX would be incredibly dumb at this point. Just leave it be.
I have to disagree.
Having Ren manipulate it and lay out her worse fear as fact would be right in line with the dark side. Giving her some kind of lineage would be fine.
Having her come out of nowhere and being nobody, and being more powerful than Luke or Anakin who are arguably two of the most powerful force users in canon (excluding Revan from Legends) and giving the explanation as "the force wills it" like It came from Lucas is awful IMO.
I'd rather JJ explain it as Kylo lied to try and being Rey over to his side and have an alternative explanation than the "will of the force".
Except that the entire theme of TLJ is built on the concept that your past is irrelevant and then idea that a nobody can be special. The final shot with broom boy really brings that point home. It's not just Rey thing. Johnson went all in on that conceit and to then reverse it in IX would be ridiculous.
That said, the thought of Johnson/Abrams one upping each other and basically undoing each other's movies would be kind of hilarious. In the same way Luke threw away his light saber at the beginning of TLJ, what if at the beginning of IX, Obi-Wan' ghost appears out of no where and immediately tells Rey, "Kylo was full of Bantha poodoo. It's me, your grandpa!" [shrug emoji]
I get where you are coming from here, but people coming from no where and not having a lineage and still doing great things isn't a new concept in the franchise. Hell, I'd say that Filoni kind of beat Johnson to the punch here with Ahsoka and Ezra from animated series. So I'm not agreeing with the concept of her having no lineage is something that can't be changed to have an impactful message.
And if anything, the end of TLJ somewhat mirrors the end of ESB with the message that hope survives.
And as to making changes and being ridiculous, let's not forget that Luke gained a sister between ESB and ROTJ.
Living Legend said:Obi Wan in the dream sequenceredline248 said:Living Legend said:I think it was pretty obvious that JJ has planned for Rey to be related to Obi Wan in some way. I'm interested into seeing how JJ closes out the trilogy.TCTTS said:
Veeery interesting...
What was obvious about it?
Yeah, I think we have different definitions of what is obvious. Half the audiences that watched TFA didn't hear Obi-Wan's voice in that, and if they did they didn't know it was him.
There were also other voices in that sequence, why isn't it obvious any of them were intended to be related to Rey?
Wasn't the only other voice Yoda?
How can you balk at them going back and saying SIKE on nobody parents when the whole Obi-Wan from different point of view thing made Vader Luke's father is basically the same thing.
And you point about no lineages is something I see in Episode 8 but not in 7. meaning is was that directors "point of view"
And you point about no lineages is something I see in Episode 8 but not in 7. meaning is was that directors "point of view"
While this is true and can certainly be re-interpreted this way without too much issue, it's definitely not what Rian intended and would basically be two filmmakers contradicting each other.CJS4715 said:
I don't think Rian **** on the possibility that much. There is enough ambiguity there. Kylo preyed on Rey's fears.
I agree with TCTTS that at this point the ship has sailed.
That said, I blame Lucasfilm and the story group for letting his happen more than I do Johnson. If there's a plan in place, stick with it
That said, I blame Lucasfilm and the story group for letting his happen more than I do Johnson. If there's a plan in place, stick with it
Oddly, I blame JJ most of all.
You created the characters, and if you had the backstory in place, it was your job to either put it in your movie, or ensure that the story group makes it canon. Remember, he had no plans to return for IX.
Rian is not at fault for being given free rein on TLJ.
You created the characters, and if you had the backstory in place, it was your job to either put it in your movie, or ensure that the story group makes it canon. Remember, he had no plans to return for IX.
Rian is not at fault for being given free rein on TLJ.
Brian Earl Spilner said:While this is true and can certainly be re-interpreted this way without too much issue, it's definitely not what Rian intended and would basically be two filmmakers contradicting each other.CJS4715 said:
I don't think Rian **** on the possibility that much. There is enough ambiguity there. Kylo preyed on Rey's fears.
The same guy also gave us Space Leia, screwed up Finn and Poe, insisted on Phasma who was ultimately pointless, and also gave us Luke milking something for no apparent reason.
Pardon me if I don't care what Rian wanted.
The only other voice in the dream sequence was Yoda, and Obi Wan said "Rey, these are your first steps."redline248 said:Living Legend said:Obi Wan in the dream sequenceredline248 said:Living Legend said:I think it was pretty obvious that JJ has planned for Rey to be related to Obi Wan in some way. I'm interested into seeing how JJ closes out the trilogy.TCTTS said:
Veeery interesting...
What was obvious about it?
Yeah, I think we have different definitions of what is obvious. Half the audiences that watched TFA didn't hear Obi-Wan's voice in that, and if they did they didn't know it was him.
There were also other voices in that sequence, why isn't it obvious any of them were intended to be related to Rey?
Put me in the ship has sailed camp as well.
A little more color/history...
Quote:
Pegg's quote is fascinating for a number of reasons. We also know Abrams and Johnson spoke specifically about this topic before Johnson started writing the script for The Last Jedi, but Abrams didn't force his ideas (no pun intended) on Johnson: "[J.J.] might have had thoughts in his head who it was going to be, but he didn't dictate them to me," Johnson told us. But other interviews indicated that the two actually came to the same conclusion about Rey's heritage. So maybe Abrams changed his mind? Maybe Pegg had conversations with Abrams so early in the game that he was hearing very early ideas that eventually evolved into what we learned about her in The Last Jedi?
Quote:
Pegg's claims contradict previous comments from Daisy Ridley, who told Rolling Stone last year before the film's release that the answer given in The Last Jedi is "what I was told in the beginning" while making The Force Awakens. So perhaps while at one point it was considered that Rey could be bound by blood to the wider Skywalker saga, it was ultimately decided she wouldn't beand what Pegg says was simply an early idea that never made it far into the process of hashing out this new sequel trilogy at Lucasfilm.
Fwiw, JJ designing Rey with grand parentage in mind but ultimately deciding that the better story and theme was for her to be Nobody sounds very JJ to me. The initial idea of Rey being a Skywalker (or whatever) fits with his well documented desire for grand spectacle in TFA.
Also the ORIGINAL idea wouldn't necessarily be JJ's idea, as he basically rewrote the thing pretty late.
Also the ORIGINAL idea wouldn't necessarily be JJ's idea, as he basically rewrote the thing pretty late.
I guess I can see it going either way. I'm not completely bought in on either choice. Basically, I have no idea WTF Episode IX is going to be out, and that excitement is starting to feel a bit like TFA did for me. I'm thinking about it a lot more than Solo.
I'm indifferent to whether she does or doesn't have a distinguished lineage, but TFA definitely set up an important backstory. As others have said, TLJ erased that, and Johnson said in interviews that her lack of a significant backstory is integral to the theme of TLJ. He's done just about everything he can to turn Rey's arc in TFA into a pointless misdirection. If Abrams salvages the character he's going to have to do to TLJ what Johnson did to TFA. Again as some of you have said that would be ridiculous, but it's already ridiculous so i guess whatever.
Continuity and foresight have always been a weak point in Star Wars, but it doesn't have to be that way... especially when you've got a committee managing a trilogy and you knew it going in. This isn't a lone writer/director winging it.
Continuity and foresight have always been a weak point in Star Wars, but it doesn't have to be that way... especially when you've got a committee managing a trilogy and you knew it going in. This isn't a lone writer/director winging it.
Except it was Obiwans voice. Ewan McGreggor even confirmed it in an appearance on the tonight show where he talked about they combined a sound bite from Alec Guinness and himself to make the sound you hear in the movie.redline248 said:Living Legend said:Obi Wan in the dream sequenceredline248 said:Living Legend said:I think it was pretty obvious that JJ has planned for Rey to be related to Obi Wan in some way. I'm interested into seeing how JJ closes out the trilogy.TCTTS said:
Veeery interesting...
What was obvious about it?
Yeah, I think we have different definitions of what is obvious. Half the audiences that watched TFA didn't hear Obi-Wan's voice in that, and if they did they didn't know it was him.
There were also other voices in that sequence, why isn't it obvious any of them were intended to be related to Rey?
Ulrich said:
Continuity and foresight have always been a weak point in Star Wars, but it doesn't have to be that way... especially when you've got a committee managing a trilogy and you knew it going in. This isn't a lone writer/director winging it.
And, Rian Johnson spent an inordinate amount of time with the story group according to everything we read going into TLJ.
Yea, incredibly dumb! Not like anyone in this series was lied to about their parents before!TCTTS said:
To have Rey's parents be no bodies after all that build up, only to then reverse on that and essentially say, "Sike! You actually ARE a [Skywalker/Kenobi/etc.]" in Episode IX would be incredibly dumb at this point. Just leave it be.
jokershady said:
Except it was Obiwans voice. Ewan McGreggor even confirmed it in an appearance on the tonight show where he talked about they combined a sound bite from Alec Guinness and himself to make the sound you hear in the movie.
This reminds me of a question that has lingered in my head on and off for awhile now. Was the name Rey only used, so they could use this little trick to have Alec Guinness say her name?
I agree. I like the fact she's a no one.TCTTS said:
To have Rey's parents be no bodies after all that build up, only to then reverse on that and essentially say, "Sike! You actually ARE a [Skywalker/Kenobi/etc.]" in Episode IX would be incredibly dumb at this point. Just leave it be.
If you put closed captions on during Rey's sequence of flashbacks/forwards, you can hear Alec Guiness, Ewan McGregor, Yoda and Darth Sidious - the noise Sidious makes when attacking Mace Windu, etc., is very audible.
Still can't understand the theory of Obi-Wan and Rey being related. Basic math prevents most of it, seeing how Rey is 19 in TFA and at that point Obi-Wan has been extremely dead for about 16 years. And was 60 at the time of his death. And if he's her granfather, that means you're telling me that after seeing the extreme consequences of Anakin's secret marriage he's decided "What the heck, I'll have a kid too!"
Speaking of Rey's vision, I'm hopeful that the sequences in the rain where KR and the KoR are i n a field strewn with bodies is something that happens in Episode IX. I originally imagined it was him destroying Luke's temple,, but that can't be true after watching VII, he didn't have the mask or the saber at that point.
ON my previous post, I thought Poe had great character arc in TLJ, learning that non-action is sometimes the best choice, something that will propel him to being General Dameron in Episode IX (as Nien Numb is again passed over for a promotion and files an anti-diversity lawsuit)
Still can't understand the theory of Obi-Wan and Rey being related. Basic math prevents most of it, seeing how Rey is 19 in TFA and at that point Obi-Wan has been extremely dead for about 16 years. And was 60 at the time of his death. And if he's her granfather, that means you're telling me that after seeing the extreme consequences of Anakin's secret marriage he's decided "What the heck, I'll have a kid too!"
Speaking of Rey's vision, I'm hopeful that the sequences in the rain where KR and the KoR are i n a field strewn with bodies is something that happens in Episode IX. I originally imagined it was him destroying Luke's temple,, but that can't be true after watching VII, he didn't have the mask or the saber at that point.
ON my previous post, I thought Poe had great character arc in TLJ, learning that non-action is sometimes the best choice, something that will propel him to being General Dameron in Episode IX (as Nien Numb is again passed over for a promotion and files an anti-diversity lawsuit)
MuckRaker96 said:
If you put closed captions on during Rey's sequence of flashbacks/forwards, you can hear Alec Guiness, Ewan McGregor, Yoda and Darth Sidious - the noise Sidious makes when attacking Mace Windu, etc., is very audible.
Still can't understand the theory of Obi-Wan and Rey being related. Basic math prevents most of it, seeing how Rey is 19 in TFA and at that point Obi-Wan has been extremely dead for about 16 years. And was 60 at the time of his death. And if he's her granfather, that means you're telling me that after seeing the extreme consequences of Anakin's secret marriage he's decided "What the heck, I'll have a kid too!"
Our EB concept for the Kenobi film laid out the timeline for Rey being Obi Wan's granddaughter pretty well.