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For what it's worth there were some weapons/clothing which were so associated with super strong Force users that they could influence subsequent wielders. Usually seems to happen with badass Sith Lords.

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Yeah, and there's DEFINITELY something special about this lightsaber, in particular, other than the fact that it was once Vader's. There's a Force-related reason everyone's after it.

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This is good stuff, guys. Thanks. So maybe Anakin's second lightsaber is special in some way? Maybe because he didn't "choose" the crystal, it was instead given to him by Palpatine or something. Maybe the crystal in it is some special Sith crystal. Wait, actually, that reminds me.... I totally forgot about this part... my friend said (his friend said) that the crystal or whatever in the lightsaber in question is so strong that it basically aids in TURNING you to the Dark Side in some one way. So, if true, that would have pretty big implications, obviously. Means Vader cutting off Luke's hand basically inadvertently perhaps saved Luke.

Sorry for the scatterbrained thoughts. My friend told me all this a couple weeks back, and he's not a big Star Wars guy, so it was like two completely uninformed people trying to have a conversation about this.

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As of right now, where Sith get their crystals, and why their blades are red is unclear AFAIK. I don't remember ever being given a clear answer of when Anakin created his second saber. I'm not sure I really am a fan of the idea that the crystal is what turns you to the darkside of the force. That just seems like a cheap gimmick. I also think that would royally cheapen Anakin's fall in the PT as everything we have been led to believe regarding his descent into becoming Vader was due to his attachment to Padme wanting to avoid her death. As well as the manipulation of Anakin's feelings by Palpatine.

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This is good stuff, guys. Thanks. So maybe Anakin's second lightsaber is special in some way? Maybe because he didn't "choose" the crystal, it was instead given to him by Palpatine or something. Maybe the crystal in it is some special Sith crystal. Wait, actually, that reminds me.... I totally forgot about this part... my friend said (his friend said) that the crystal or whatever in the lightsaber in question is so strong that it basically aids in TURNING you to the Dark Side in some one way. So, if true, that would have pretty big implications, obviously. Means Vader cutting off Luke's hand basically inadvertently perhaps saved Luke.

Sorry for the scatterbrained thoughts. My friend told me all this a couple weeks back, and he's not a big Star Wars guy, so it was like two completely uninformed people trying to have a conversation about this.

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As of right now, where Sith get their crystals, and why their blades are red is unclear AFAIK. I don't remember ever being given a clear answer of when Anakin created his second saber. I'm not sure I really am a fan of the idea that the crystal is what turns you to the darkside of the force. That just seems like a cheap gimmick. I also think that would royally cheapen Anakin's fall in the PT as everything we have been led to believe regarding his descent into becoming Vader was due to his attachment to Padme wanting to avoid her death. As well as the manipulation of Anakin's feelings by Palpatine.

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Agreed.

The easiest bridge to wanting to collect items owned by force wielders is that the force wielder leaves some kind of taint or mark on the object. Darth Vader's helmet (and skull). Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber. It's also possible to say that, perhaps, the stronger the force user the stronger the mark. As Anakin was essentially the most powerful force user of all time (yes he lost, but we could argue that he was just young and dumb), any Sith that wanted power would definitely want his artifacts. The taint or mark idea doesn't require you to have seen any of E 1-6.

Wow, this interesting as well...

http://io9.com/the-empire-has-a-whole-new-name-in-star-wars-episode-vi-1698337595

Looks like the Empire (or at least a faction of it) will now be referred to as the "First Order," while the Rebels are now "the Resistance."

Agreed with the above - the crystal thing determining good/bad is way too simplistic.

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The easiest bridge to wanting to collect items owned by force wielders is that the force wielder leaves some kind of taint or mark on the object. Darth Vader's helmet (and skull). Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber. It's also possible to say that, perhaps, the stronger the force user the stronger the mark. As Anakin was essentially the most powerful force user of all time (yes he lost, but we could argue that he was just young and dumb), any Sith that wanted power would definitely want his artifacts. The taint or mark idea doesn't require you to have seen any of E 1-6.

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This definitely makes the most sense. LOVE this idea.

Also can't stop laughing at the idea of a "Force taint."

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^ I love how homemade that looks. Definitely supports the rumor that Kylo Ren is basically a glorified Sith cosplayer/fanboy.

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If that's the case, I hope he's being manipulated by a great Sith lord who keeps promising him, "Do the dirty work and I'll let you into the club."

Though this would sort of be rehashing how Palpatine treated maul and dooku in the prequels...

I realized it the moment after I typed it. Decided to leave it.

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Wow, this interesting as well...

http://io9.com/the-empire-has-a-whole-new-name-in-star-wars-episode-vi-1698337595

Looks like the Empire (or at least a faction of it) will now be referred to as the "First Order," while the Rebels are now "the Resistance."

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Wow, that's a big revelation! Not a fan right away, but it will grow in me. Funny in that shot of" the "first order" reminded me of the capital guards in the hunger games movies. And now that the rebels are "the resistance", it smacks of these modern tales of big bad controlling entity vs. The resistance.

In short, I'm OK with the First Order name... Obviously it's not the Empire anymore... But I would have preferred the good guys to be called the Rebels still.

I love the "used future" look of this movie. I probably loved the whole used future trope because of the original Star Wars trilogy.

This.

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^ I love how homemade that looks. Definitely supports the rumor that Kylo Ren is basically a glorified Sith cosplayer/fanboy.

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If that's the case, I hope he's being manipulated by a great Sith lord who keeps promising him, "Do the dirty work and I'll let you into the club."

Though this would sort of be rehashing how Palpatine treated maul and dooku in the prequels...

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Maul was a full on apprentice/Sith, moreso than Dooku. Dooku was just a placeholder for Anakin. Interesting thought is what if Maul had never died? He might have attempted to kill Palpatine way sooner than events of Ep 3, maybe even targeted Anakin as his apprentice as well. A lot of stuff would have been different.


As far as Sith lightsabers, this may not be canon anymore, but I remember reading at some point that their crystals were synthetic in order to get the red color. Probably some darkside ritual to infuse them with force power or something.

I'm not really buying into the idea of the item being instrumental in turning someone toward the dark. I suppose I could see more of the "rub off" from the user onto the relic, though. Even if it's not really ever been something shown in the movies (not sure about Clone Wars). I suppose the best example of something like that in the movies is the cave on Dagobah that Luke "faces" Vader, and even that isn't all that explicit. The crystal(s) in Anakin's lightsaber being some instrument of unusual power, though...that's hard to get behind.

First off, let me say, I was a doubter. From the very beginning I thought making another trilogy was a turrible idea. It is Disney. Too PC, feel-good, girl-oriented crap. My main gripe is/was that grew up reading the Expanded Universe (EU), and I hated (and still hate) the idea that it is all disappearing... or being relabeled as "Legendary" or whatever. That ****'s real!

The first trailer looked good but I still had my doubts. This one comes out and HOLY CRAP! This totally changed my outlook! I went from being a cynic to really excited! That opening scene on Tatooine with the X-Wing and SD, then Vader's helmet with the ROTJ quote....chills....

New stormtroopers, new TIEs, new Sith a new JW soundtrack to look forward to! And Mark Hamill returns as Luke, who I always played as a child! I just hope Disney didn't put the black in there for diversity's sake. I really don't want that crammed down my throat again, especially by my beloved SW. If he kicks ass and is a main character (not a token), great!

Don't get me wrong, I know it's a trailer meant to generate interest, and I still have a few reservations, but damn, it sure melted this hardened critic!

P.S. Sith lightsaber crystals are synthetic. That's what gives them the red color. Maul forged his own while sitting in a furnace.

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...still giggling about Force taint. Very close to the dark side, the Force taint is.

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I'm pretty sure Tron Legacy was not "girl oriented crap". Just sayin'

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^ I love how homemade that looks. Definitely supports the rumor that Kylo Ren is basically a glorified Sith cosplayer/fanboy.

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If that's the case, I hope he's being manipulated by a great Sith lord who keeps promising him, "Do the dirty work and I'll let you into the club."

Though this would sort of be rehashing how Palpatine treated maul and dooku in the prequels...

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Maul was a full on apprentice/Sith, moreso than Dooku. Dooku was just a placeholder for Anakin. Interesting thought is what if Maul had never died? He might have attempted to kill Palpatine way sooner than events of Ep 3, maybe even targeted Anakin as his apprentice as well. A lot of stuff would have been different.


As far as Sith lightsabers, this may not be canon anymore, but I remember reading at some point that their crystals were synthetic in order to get the red color. Probably some darkside ritual to infuse them with force power or something.

I'm not really buying into the idea of the item being instrumental in turning someone toward the dark. I suppose I could see more of the "rub off" from the user onto the relic, though. Even if it's not really ever been something shown in the movies (not sure about Clone Wars). I suppose the best example of something like that in the movies is the cave on Dagobah that Luke "faces" Vader, and even that isn't all that explicit. The crystal(s) in Anakin's lightsaber being some instrument of unusual power, though...that's hard to get behind.

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You are correct. Some of the user does "rub off" on the artifact, but it cannot turn the user. They could best be described as "radioactive." The most powerful artifacts are Holocrons, where Sith impart their knowledge and instruct the user via an avatar of themselves.

Although it is despised by most readers, "The Glove of Darth Vader" explains these types of artifacts. I really hope the movie doesn't go that route though...

Scavengers would raid Sith tombs such as those on Korriban to find these artifacts. Some may give the user certain powers or knowledge, but collecting them all Pokemon-style would not make one a competent Force user.

There is also the Rule of Two. While there are several Jedi, there are only supposed to be two Sith, a master and an apprentice. Established by Darth Bane, it is supposed to prevent the "dilution" of the Force.

That reminds me, someone brought up a conversation b/w Emperor and Vader from ESB wanting to turn Luke as evidence of there being no Rule of Two. I'm not sure when the idea of Rule of Two came into existence, but it could simply have been Emperor telling Vader "go find this dude so I can turn him" with the full intention of having him take Vader's place. At the same time Vader is playing the good apprentice, saying "yes, I'll bring him to you," with the full intention of doing exactly as he did on Cloud City and trying to get Luke to help him overthrow the Emperor. That was the nature of the Sith. As it turns out, this exact scenario plays out in ROTJ. Vader brings Luke to the Emperor and the Emperor tries to get him to kill Vader and be his new apprentice. Because "always two there, a master and an apprentice."

test post

That was weird, it took my previous post 3 minutes to show up.

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You are correct. Some of the user does "rub off" on the artifact, but it cannot turn the user. They could best be described as "radioactive." The most powerful artifacts are Holocrons, where Sith impart their knowledge and instruct the user via an avatar of themselves.

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Holocrons were officially entered into canon through TCW season 2 premiere involving an arc of a holocron from the Jedi Temple Library being stolen. Kanan in Rebels has one as well, but it isn't really clear what all the information that it currently contains or how he came into possession of it as he was a Padawan at the time of Order 66. The only thing we really know is that it contains a map of the various Jedi Shrines/hidden Temples (as seen in the S1 episode "Path of the Jedi") and Kenobi's message from ROTS.

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That reminds me, someone brought up a conversation b/w Emperor and Vader from ESB wanting to turn Luke as evidence of there being no Rule of Two. I'm not sure when the idea of Rule of Two came into existence, but it could simply have been Emperor telling Vader "go find this dude so I can turn him" with the full intention of having him take Vader's place. At the same time Vader is playing the good apprentice, saying "yes, I'll bring him to you," with the full intention of doing exactly as he did on Cloud City and trying to get Luke to help him overthrow the Emperor. That was the nature of the Sith. As it turns out, this exact scenario plays out in ROTJ. Vader brings Luke to the Emperor and the Emperor tries to get him to kill Vader and be his new apprentice. Because "always two there, a master and an apprentice."

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Darth Bane establish the Rule, which was 4000 BBY (Before the Battle of Yavin) if I remember correctly. I strongly recommend readers of this thread to check out the Bane trilogy of books, as well as Darth Plagueis. You won't be disappointed.

"One to embody power, the other to crave it."

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I'm pretty sure Tron Legacy was not "girl oriented crap". Just sayin'

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Not to mention The Avengers, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor...okay maybe not Thor.

The books aren't canon, correct?

What I meant was, I don't know when Lucas/Lucasfilm came up with the idea of rule of 2. I know all about Bane.

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The books aren't canon, correct?

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Only the novelization of the movies, which I suppose is obvious, and whatever new stuff they are writing.

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I'm pretty sure Tron Legacy was not "girl oriented crap". Just sayin'

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Not to mention The Avengers, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor...okay maybe not Thor.

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Picky picky! Y'all know the perception. Just sayin'!

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The books aren't canon, correct?

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Only the novelization of the movies, which I suppose is obvious, and whatever new stuff they are writing.

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Only the movies are now canon. Everything afterwards is being recategorized as "Legends" or something. Not sure about the stuff before the prequels though.

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What I meant was, I don't know when Lucas/Lucasfilm came up with the idea of rule of 2. I know all about Bane.

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I know. Not trying to pick or anything, I'm just totally nerding out again.

Most of that is EU, so no longer applies. There is precedent that Dark Side events/people can leave an impression, like the cave on Dagobah (though we don't know what really happened there, but it shows that a place/thing can be strong in the Dark Side).

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The books aren't canon, correct?

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Only the novelization of the movies, which I suppose is obvious, and whatever new stuff they are writing.

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Only the movies are now canon. Everything afterwards is being recategorized as "Legends" or something. Not sure about the stuff before the prequels though.

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Movies Clone Wars, Rebels, and the newly written books and comics.

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You are correct. Some of the user does "rub off" on the artifact, but it cannot turn the user. They could best be described as "radioactive." The most powerful artifacts are Holocrons, where Sith impart their knowledge and instruct the user via an avatar of themselves.

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Holocrons were officially entered into canon through TCW season 2 premiere involving an arc of a holocron from the Jedi Temple Library being stolen. Kanan in Rebels has one as well, but it isn't really clear what all the information that it currently contains or how he came into possession of it as he was a Padawan at the time of Order 66. The only thing we really know is that it contains a map of the various Jedi Shrines/hidden Temples (as seen in the S1 episode "Path of the Jedi") and Kenobi's message from ROTS.

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As before, I'm not sure what it completely canon anymore. I did not watch the Clone Wars, especially after I found out they brought Maul back (lame).

I do know that in other EU sources the Holocron is the ultimate artifact. Extremely difficult to create, it is a means of passing on knowledge. It was mainly used by Sith, but some Jedi created them as well, such as Master Bodo Baas.