Star Wars Discussion Thread

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Ag Since 83
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I may be in the minority but even if theres some Lucas-esque way of explaining that it doesn't technically contradict anything, I do not want Vader and Kenobi interacting in any way

I could see Vader investigating if Kenobi is still alive and Kenobi laying the breadcrumbs to trick Vader into thinking he died in the purge (hey that could actually be the plot) but there's no reason to have Christensen play Vader in the "present." He should never interact with characters with a reason to see his face
BrownCoat
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I would love it if one of the plot lines for the series is how Obi-Wan discovers that Vader is Anakin.

I think this was covered in legends but I don't think they have covered how Obi-Wan finds out Anakin survived the duel in the new Disney Cannon.
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Urban Ag
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TCTTS said:

Again, if true, I doubt McGregor and Christensen have another scene together (unless it's a TLJ-esque Force call, as speculated above). That said, is there any dialogue in A New Hope that directly prohibits Kenobi/Vader from sharing a scene physically in this series? Like, is there a "It's been 20 years since we last met" type line that I'm not thinking of? In other words, could they technically share a scene together, a decade or so before a A New Hope, and it not disrupt cannon?
There is now that I think about it.

On the Death Star in A New Hope Vader says "When last we met, I was the student and you were the Master. Now I am the Master". Kind of an iconic line I suppose. So yeah, it would really dick up the canon to have them meet again somewhere between Mustafar and the Death Star.
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BrownCoat said:

I would love it if one of the plot lines for the series is how Obi-Wan discovers that Vader is Anakin.

I think this was covered in legends but I don't think they have covered how Obi-Wan finds out Anakin survived the duel in the new Disney Cannon.


In Revenge of the Sith, don't Yoda and Obi Wan refer time him as Vader after watching the video of him killing everyone in the Jedi temple? He may not know he survived but probably figures it out when he hears about Vader doing whatever he does between then and Rogue One
BrownCoat
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Yes...that is the plot I would like them to cover in the show. How he finds out...
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redline248
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There's a solid chance that Obi-Wan always knew Vader lived. Strong force connection as master/student for so long.
bluefire579
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exitone said:

I think this is great if they are including Hayden in the Kenobi series. I agree, physically, he just doesn't fit the imposing Vader mold. But if you can show him with helmet off sitting in the meditation chamber talking to others and having flashbacks, that would be cool.

I have been thinking for a while that the next character they need to focus on is Vader. His character is really under developed. We know how he came into existence, and we know how he died. But we really haven't seen much of him to show why he is such a feared villain. Rogue One is the only thing to have really touched on this so far. I think it would be great if they could build on his history a bit and let us know how he came to grips with being stuck in a suit and losing everything and everyone he loved. Maybe this role in Kenobi could be a start to that.

As a side note, I know they have the Vader comics, but I admittedly haven't read but one of them. Is it worth checking out the whole series? I think they have it as an omnibus edition.


That's what I loved about that scene in Rogue One so much. There are so few times where you really see Vader as the absolute killing machine that everyone fears. I thought the opening sequence of Force Unleashed where you play as him did the same thing, though it's not canon anymore.
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BrownCoat said:

Yes...that is the plot I would like them to cover in the show. How he finds out...


Probably just read about it in the newspaper. While their medicine lacks in prenatal care, they are pretty good at healing people. Vader was probably back out killing younglings pretty quick.
Flashdiaz
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Thanks for reminding me about Revenge of the Sith. Anakin finally turns and we see him about to kill a bunch of toddlers and they completely skip the battle in the Jedi Temple with real Jedi.
jeffk
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There's a great section of the newest Jedi: Fallen Order game with Vader in it. It's all on YouTube if you don't want to play the game.
exitone
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BrownCoat said:

I would love it if one of the plot lines for the series is how Obi-Wan discovers that Vader is Anakin.

I think this was covered in legends but I don't think they have covered how Obi-Wan finds out Anakin survived the duel in the new Disney Cannon.
Yes, in Legends there was an Obi Wan book (I read it probably 20 years ago and vaguely remember it). If I recall, he learns that Vader is Anakin I think while he was in a cantina on Tatooine and it completely blew him away. This caused him to act a little odd at first, which is how the "Ben is crazy" rumor that Owen mentions in Ep 4.
exitone
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Cstrickland05 said:



In Revenge of the Sith, don't Yoda and Obi Wan refer time him as Vader after watching the video of him killing everyone in the Jedi temple? He may not know he survived but probably figures it out when he hears about Vader doing whatever he does between then and Rogue One
This is a good point. I dont think they actually use the name Vader, but they see its Anakin, so I'm sure it's simple enough to put one and one together and figure out Anakin is Vader.
AliasMan02
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exitone said:

BrownCoat said:

I would love it if one of the plot lines for the series is how Obi-Wan discovers that Vader is Anakin.

I think this was covered in legends but I don't think they have covered how Obi-Wan finds out Anakin survived the duel in the new Disney Cannon.
Yes, in Legends there was an Obi Wan book (I read it probably 20 years ago and vaguely remember it). If I recall, he learns that Vader is Anakin I think while he was in a cantina on Tatooine and it completely blew him away. This caused him to act a little odd at first, which is how the "Ben is crazy" rumor that Owen mentions in Ep 4.


This is the sort of forced dot-connecting that was so horrible in the EU. Why did Owen say Ben was crazy? Here's a book about it!

The new canon isn't immune, but I don't feel like it's as prevalent.
redline248
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exitone said:

Cstrickland05 said:



In Revenge of the Sith, don't Yoda and Obi Wan refer time him as Vader after watching the video of him killing everyone in the Jedi temple? He may not know he survived but probably figures it out when he hears about Vader doing whatever he does between then and Rogue One
This is a good point. I dont think they actually use the name Vader, but they see its Anakin, so I'm sure it's simple enough to put one and one together and figure out Anakin is Vader.

They also watch video of the Palpatine calling him Vader, and Yoda says "gone Skywalker is, consumed by Vader he was," or something like that.
Brian Earl Spilner
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BrownCoat said:

Yes...that is the plot I would like them to cover in the show. How he finds out...
What is there to explain? Yoda and he see the hologram of Palpatine "knighting" Vader.
Brian Earl Spilner
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They do use the name Vader. Yoda says this verbatim -- "The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader."
Brian Earl Spilner
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Sorry, I missed this.
BrownCoat
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

BrownCoat said:

Yes...that is the plot I would like them to cover in the show. How he finds out...
What is there to explain? Yoda and he see the hologram of Palpatine "knighting" Vader.
Maybe I am in the minority here but I want to see Obi Wan realize he failed to kill Anakin and made him embrace the darkside even more. I want to see him panic when he realizes Luke could be in danger, like he did in the old Legends story. I think that moment of realization could be powerful.

A lot of people assumes that Vader's survival was known to everyone but I can't see the empire making a public announcement that Vader was alive. I always imagined he existed in the shadows for the most part only known to exist to those actively rebelling against the Empire, and even then the stories would sound more like ghost stories than being about a real person.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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Gotcha. So discovering that Vader is alive, not that Vader = Anakin.

That makes more sense, and I agree, I want to see this moment as well.
exitone
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Gotcha. So discovering that Vader is alive, not that Vader = Anakin.

That makes more sense, and I agree, I want to see this moment as well.

That's an interesting take. I always assumed Vader was a well known figure among the public in the SW universe. I know in Legends he was. I think in the book they showed him on the holonet after a battle and that is how Kenobi in a round about way figured it out (I could be remembering that completely wrong though). But it would make sense really if he was just this unknown henchman sitting in the background carrying out the dirty work only known to those in the Empire and whoever s a$$ he happened to kick that day.

So the rumor for the Kenobi series was that it too closely mirrored the Mandalorian, so that is why they pulled back and are reworking things. My wild assumption then is that this originally focused on Kenobi having to actively protect young Luke in some way (without Luke actively knowing it). If they are having to change directions slightly, and add in Vader... where does that leave us? Like mentioned above, I would hope it gets to Kenobi understanding in more depth who Vader is, and Vader coming to terms with who he is. Throwing Ashoka and Rex into this whole story could really progress those stories.
redline248
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Here's my take on Vader, Obi-Wan, the galaxy, etc.

No one knew Darth Vader before order 66, or even before he ever put the mask on. The clones that helped him destroy the temple probably just thought he was still General Skywalker. Then, sometime after Obi-Wan teaches Anakin about the power of the high ground, Darth Vader appears in Imperial Command. We see him on the bridge of a star destroyer looking at the Death Star under construction.

At that point, most imperials were, probably, thinking "who or what the hell is this?" Emperor says this is my right hand, and most go ok, sure. After one or two officers try and argue something with Vader and get a force massage of the throat, people start to get in line. (RIP young imperial officer who didn't get the memo on the Death Star).
Edit:Maybe at this point (New Hope) he's already known in official government circles - Leia's "only you could be so bold." However, it doesn't appear that everyday Joe Rebel (and likely the random citizenry) knows much about him. What do y'all think...did the rebels at the end of Rogue One appear to be thinking "wtf is this," or "holy sh-t we're all f-cking dead?" :End edit

In my opinion, Obi-Wan had to know Anakin was still alive when he left Mustafar. Maybe he assumed Anakin had eventually died by that lava river, and I suppose a show could explore that, but similar to how Yoda felt the death of Jedi during Order 66, and Obi-Wan felt the destruction of Alderaan...he probably also felt that Anakin survived.
YouBet
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redline248 said:

Here's my take on Vader, Obi-Wan, the galaxy, etc.

No one knew Darth Vader before order 66, or even before he ever put the mask on. The clones that helped him destroy the temple probably just thought he was still General Skywalker. Then, sometime after Obi-Wan teaches Anakin about the power of the high ground, Darth Vader appears in Imperial Command. We see him on the bridge of a star destroyer looking at the Death Star under construction.

At that point, most imperials were, probably, thinking "who or what the hell is this?" Emperor says this is my right hand, and most go ok, sure. After one or two officers try and argue something with Vader and get a force massage of the throat, people start to get in line. (RIP young imperial officer who didn't get the memo on the Death Star).
Edit:Maybe at this point (New Hope) he's already known in official government circles - Leia's "only you could be so bold." However, it doesn't appear that everyday Joe Rebel (and likely the random citizenry) knows much about him. What do y'all think...did the rebels at the end of Rogue One appear to be thinking "wtf is this," or "holy sh-t we're all f-cking dead?" :End edit

In my opinion, Obi-Wan had to know Anakin was still alive when he left Mustafar. Maybe he assumed Anakin had eventually died by that lava river, and I suppose a show could explore that, but similar to how Yoda felt the death of Jedi during Order 66, and Obi-Wan felt the destruction of Alderaan...he probably also felt that Anakin survived.
Agree with this. If you apply some IRL logic to this, you are talking about a universe with trillions of people across hundreds or thousands of planets most of which would have no idea what you are talking about. I don't even know what's going on on my street.
C@LAg
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Sine poena nulla lex.
Sine poena nulla lex
exitone
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C@LAg said:

and ahsoka did not know for ~17 years
With all that time door crap, who knows what she knows, what can be changed, etc. This is the only area where I haven't been fully onboard with Filoni. I don't really want time travel and alternate universes in my Star Wars universe.
TXAG 05
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exitone said:

C@LAg said:

and ahsoka did not know for ~17 years
With all that time door crap, who knows what she knows, what can be changed, etc. This is the only area where I haven't been fully onboard with Filoni. I don't really want time travel and alternate universes in my Star Wars universe.


That was the only thing about Rebels I didn't care for.
Saxsoon
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I think it has to be a flashback. He sees Luke running around and flashes back to one of his brother moments with Anakin. Hayden still looks young, it wouldn't be hard to de-age him.
I Have Spoken
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exitone said:

C@LAg said:

and ahsoka did not know for ~17 years
With all that time door crap, who knows what she knows, what can be changed, etc. This is the only area where I haven't been fully onboard with Filoni. I don't really want time travel and alternate universes in my Star Wars universe.


Until The Last Jedi... and now, I'll gladly welcome it.
redline248
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The best thing about the time doors was that after they introduced it as possible, they put everyone right back where they were and closed up that temple for good. Should be the end of that.

That reminds me, we still don't really know how or when Ahsoka got out of the temple on Malachor, do we. Or what she was doing during time of the OT?
Flashdiaz
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redline248 said:

The best thing about the time doors was that after they introduced it as possible, they put everyone right back where they were and closed up that temple for good. Should be the end of that.

That reminds me, we still don't really know how or when Ahsoka got out of the temple on Malachor, do we. Or what she was doing during time of the OT?


Ezra used the door to yank Ashoka out of the temple. Didn't like that at all. So many possibilities with those dumb doors. He should have just plopped in behind Vader and killed him.
redline248
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Flashdiaz said:

redline248 said:

The best thing about the time doors was that after they introduced it as possible, they put everyone right back where they were and closed up that temple for good. Should be the end of that.

That reminds me, we still don't really know how or when Ahsoka got out of the temple on Malachor, do we. Or what she was doing during time of the OT?


Ezra used the door to yank Ashoka out of the temple. Didn't like that at all. So many possibilities with those dumb doors. He should have just plopped in behind Vader and killed him.
Then she went back through the same door and was stuck in there again.
jeffk
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In the episode where she and Vader get sealed up inside (before the door thing), we see someone emerge from a passage at the bottom of the temple.
AliasMan02
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jeffk said:

In the episode where she and Vader get sealed up inside (before the door thing), we see someone emerge from a passage at the bottom of the temple.
Have a time check for that?
jeffk
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Sure - see if you think it's the same as I did (it might just be another shot of Vader). It's really small and I'm on a laptop.

Episode 2:22, 20:58.
redline248
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I think at the end of the time portal episode when Ahsoka goes back in, the shot ends with her walking through some entry in the exact manner. Is it an exit to the outside?
jeffk
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That was my reading of it.

Edit - just went and checked S4.13 (17:39) and yeah, it's the same triangle-shaped doorway in both episodes. Looks like it's leading out of the temple to me.
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