Star Wars Discussion Thread

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SpreadsheetAg
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AliasMan02 said:

SpreadsheetAg said:

I want to know when were going to get books about Luke Skywalker post-ROTJ and pre-Kylo

Books about Luke tend to be some of the worst in the Canon, or the old EU.
All of the Tim Zahn books were great. I'll give you the dark crystal trilogy was horrendous.

The jedi academy series was pretty good.
Render
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People putting Rogue One ahead of the final confrontation between Vader and Luke?! Ahead of Jabba?! Ahead of the Battle of Endor?! Some of you people are insane.

Rogue One had some great designs and cinematography, but that's about it.
Flashdiaz
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Render said:

People putting Rogue One ahead of the final confrontation between Vader and Luke?! Ahead of Jabba?! Ahead of the Battle of Endor?! Some of you people are insane.

Rogue One had some great designs and cinematography, but that's about it.
apparently Ewoks hunted down and destroyed their childhood.
PatAg
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daggertx said:

Urban Ag said:

TV Casualty said:

PatAg said:

So we're in the bad fan fiction part of the year eh?


Disney could have made better movies going off of fan fiction on the internet rather than the crap Abrams, Kennedy, and Johnson have been shoveling our way.
Slightly perplexed by this sentiment.

We're four movies in with Disney.

The Force Awakens was good, not great, but good.
Rogue One was absolutely amazing. Top 3 general consensus.
TLJ was bad. No argument there.
Solo was good. Better than TFA in my opinion. Generally well received by critics and fans alike. It had disappointing performance at the box office but there are a lot of compelling reasons to explain that beyond the quality of the film itself.

Disney is not hitting it out of the park with SW the way they are with the MCU. But to act like SW has become hot garbage overall seems completely unfounded.
TLJ killed star wars for me and a lot of people. I no longer care about it at all and will no longer pay money to see the movies.

Its dead Jim,

Also, the force awakens was jar jar territory. I loved the part when mary sue beat a sith having never used a lightsaber before, and the exact same plot as a New Hope. Really?



No actual Star Wars fan would say this.
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Rogue One battle blows the Battle of Endor out of the water.

Obviously Luke vs Vader is the strong point for ROTJ. But strictly looking at the battles, RO wins hands down.
redline248
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Hello there said:

Rogue One battle blows the Battle of Endor out of the water.

Obviously Luke vs Vader is the strong point for ROTJ. But strictly looking at the battles, RO wins hands down.


I feel like this is simply due to modern effects. The attack on the 2nd death star is probably my favorite moment in all the films. If that battle was made exactly as seen in ROTJ, but with 2016/17 effects, it would be amazing.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Flashdiaz said:

Render said:

People putting Rogue One ahead of the final confrontation between Vader and Luke?! Ahead of Jabba?! Ahead of the Battle of Endor?! Some of you people are insane.

Rogue One had some great designs and cinematography, but that's about it.
apparently Ewoks hunted down and destroyed their childhood.
George Lucas reinvented the teddy bear. The Ewoks sucked. The visceral reaction many here have toward Jar-Jar Binks is the same reaction I had at age 16 to the Ewoks.

Yes, the duel between Luke, Vader, and Palps was fantastic. The rescue of Han Solo from Jabba was great. The attack on the second Death Star was awesome. But the Ewoks are steaming piles of ewok crap.

RO has nothing like an Ewok. It has an insanely sarcastic droid. It has all the elements of the OT except those damn teddy bears. Star Destroyers, AT-AT's, AT-ST's, X- and Y-Wings, TIE Fighters, the Death Star, it even includes cameos from Red and Gold Leaders. It has a great cast of characters that, even though we know before hand what their fate will be, they are compelling. It brings back Tarkin via the magic of CGI (who worked quite well since his face was wrinkled and not baby-butt smooth like Carrie Fisher's, also recreated not as well in the film's closing moments). And most importantly, it gives us Darth Vader mowing down most of a Rebel regiment with nothing but the Force and his red lightsaber. Hell yeah, Rogue One is better than Return of the Jedi.
PatAg
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Disgree
Quad Dog
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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

Flashdiaz said:

Render said:

People putting Rogue One ahead of the final confrontation between Vader and Luke?! Ahead of Jabba?! Ahead of the Battle of Endor?! Some of you people are insane.

Rogue One had some great designs and cinematography, but that's about it.
apparently Ewoks hunted down and destroyed their childhood.
George Lucas reinvented the teddy bear. The Ewoks sucked. The visceral reaction many here have toward Jar-Jar Binks is the same reaction I had at age 16 to the Ewoks.

Yes, the duel between Luke, Vader, and Palps was fantastic. The rescue of Han Solo from Jabba was great. The attack on the second Death Star was awesome. But the Ewoks are steaming piles of ewok crap.

RO has nothing like an Ewok. It has an insanely sarcastic droid. It has all the elements of the OT except those damn teddy bears. Star Destroyers, AT-AT's, AT-ST's, X- and Y-Wings, TIE Fighters, the Death Star, it even includes cameos from Red and Gold Leaders. It has a great cast of characters that, even though we know before hand what their fate will be, they are compelling. It brings back Tarkin via the magic of CGI (who worked quite well since his face was wrinkled and not baby-butt smooth like Carrie Fisher's, also recreated not as well in the film's closing moments). And most importantly, it gives us Darth Vader mowing down most of a Rebel regiment with nothing but the Force and his red lightsaber. Hell yeah, Rogue One is better than Return of the Jedi.
https://uproxx.com/movies/what-was-lukes-plan-star-wars-return-of-the-jedi/
Quote:

But, on this night earlier in the week, a question was asked that at the same time put everything about this movie in perspective and no one could properly answer. That question is:
If Luke's plan to rescue Han from Jabba had worked perfectly, what would that plan have been?
Seriously, no one could answer this question
Jason Ag
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Luke gives R2 light saber - Luke enters and is checked for weapons - Plan A use Jedi mind trick - Plan B R2 shoots the light saber to him and he wrecks shop.
Render
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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

Flashdiaz said:

Render said:

People putting Rogue One ahead of the final confrontation between Vader and Luke?! Ahead of Jabba?! Ahead of the Battle of Endor?! Some of you people are insane.

Rogue One had some great designs and cinematography, but that's about it.
apparently Ewoks hunted down and destroyed their childhood.
George Lucas reinvented the teddy bear. The Ewoks sucked. The visceral reaction many here have toward Jar-Jar Binks is the same reaction I had at age 16 to the Ewoks.

Yes, the duel between Luke, Vader, and Palps was fantastic. The rescue of Han Solo from Jabba was great. The attack on the second Death Star was awesome. But the Ewoks are steaming piles of ewok crap.

RO has nothing like an Ewok. It has an insanely sarcastic droid. It has all the elements of the OT except those damn teddy bears. Star Destroyers, AT-AT's, AT-ST's, X- and Y-Wings, TIE Fighters, the Death Star, it even includes cameos from Red and Gold Leaders. It has a great cast of characters that, even though we know before hand what their fate will be, they are compelling. It brings back Tarkin via the magic of CGI (who worked quite well since his face was wrinkled and not baby-butt smooth like Carrie Fisher's, also recreated not as well in the film's closing moments). And most importantly, it gives us Darth Vader mowing down most of a Rebel regiment with nothing but the Force and his red lightsaber. Hell yeah, Rogue One is better than Return of the Jedi.

Here's your sign.
Quad Dog
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So what are Lando and Leia doing? Was getting captured and going out on the barges part of the plan?
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Urban Ag
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The third act of R1 is my favorite of any in the entire franchise. When the Rebel fleet comes out of hyperspace at Scarif, I'm nine years old again. They nailed the feel of the OT to a T.

And I still ROTJ. I place it #4, maybe #5, in the franchise. It's a great movie and holds up well sans ewoks.
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When the rebels are about to enter hyperspace and BAM! Out of nowhere, a ******* Star Destroyer appears. Crash.

Vader assesses. And you know **** is about to go down.
Dekker_Lentz
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Quad Dog said:

So what are Lando and Leia doing? Was getting captured and going out on the barges part of the plan?


If memory serves, Luke was busy rebuilding his light saber and doing Jedi stuff while the others were in charge of getting Han. Therefore, I don't think Luke was ever a part of the Lando/Leia/Chewie plan.

So, I think the plan was to get some inside the palace. That was Lando. Lando was to check out what is going on and report back on how to get into the palace.

Leia and Chewie implement the plan. Leia disguised herself as the bounty hunter and they free Han. Then Lando opens the gate and they flee. This of course fails.

In my headcanon, Luke senses this plan will end in his friends in danger and that is why he launches his own plan. I personally think he foresees R2 shooting him the lightsaber at the Scarlacc Pit. That is why he seems more sure of himself when he gets to the Scarlacc.

He has to send the droids first before Jabba is too paranoid.

I think it is easy for Luke to have force visions about his family. The good in Vader, Leia being in trouble in Empire, Kylo Ren in TLJ.

So, Luke's whole plan is unknown to everyone else. And he is unsure about everything leading up to the Scarlacc and a little afraid he is being tricked by the force. Like in Empire he rushes to save his friends and everything goes south, so he hedges his bets here. That is why later in the movie he has to courage to go to Vader.

/headcanon

AliasMan02
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No, they were definitely all planning together.

Really it was just a matter of having people in position to assist Luke with the breakout. Chewie with Han, and Lando and Leia in Jabba's court. Luke smuggled in his lightsaber in R2, though his first attempt was too kill Jabba with a blaster.
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C@LAg
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dafuq?

so does their pay service have commercials? Why not make them 55 minutes or an hour?
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C@LAg said:

dafuq?

so does their pay service have commercials? Why not make them 55 minutes or an hour?
That two hours of runtime they shaved off is probably a few cool million they saved.

That's my guess.
CJS4715
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Reading this argument made me remember having read this article back in the summer. Interesting discussion. Read the full article - he goes through the plan in detail and offers at least a compelling argument.

https://medium.com/@JoshuaMPatton/lukes-plan-to-free-han-in-return-of-the-jedi-makes-total-sense-kind-of-70c291e86951
Quote:


In the video below, Jessica Chobot of Nerdist lays out the case that this was all just haphazard nonsense, but below I will explain both what Luke's plan seemed to be at the onset, why it went wrong, and how these events served the story. Even though Han was rescued, Luke's "plan" was an utter failure. Yet, without it, he would have never actually been a Jedi.


Quote:

Another "plot hole" people complain about is how in Empire Yoda says Luke's training is incomplete, but when he returns to him on Dagobah the little green wizard says that Luke's training is complete. Yoda has nothing left to teach him, so much so that he and Obi-Wan two jedi masters yearn for the destruction of the Sith by the blade of Luke's lightsaber. Where the villains are concerned, only Luke is thinking the way a jedi should think.

Yet, Luke has surpassed his masters by this point. They don't believe he can save his father, but Luke has to try. His plan to rescue Han is an attempt to avoid the fight at Jabba's palace that he knew was coming. This plan is ultimately what ends up creating the circumstances of that violence. He still ends up on the sail barge cutting down Jabba's henchman because he tried to avoid it by deception and manipulation (perhaps this is why this is the only time we see Luke employ a light Force choke; he was veering very close to the Dark Side here). That failure is his final lesson (and arguably Yoda's final lesson too, as he re-teaches it to Luke in The Last Jedi).


Quote:

Luke's ultimate act of heroism is not going to face the Emperor nor is it fighting Vader in the throne room, which would have eliminated the Sith and turned the tide of the civil war. No, his heroic act is tossing away his weapon (even though it might mean his death) and making an active choice to reject the dark side instead of embracing it to achieve noble ends, as his father did.


Quote:

Another bit of evidence is that the moment in the score when Luke catches his lightsaber and goes to work on Jabba's thugs is called "Return of the Jedi." It is in this moment that Luke accepts that he's an instrument of the Force and that trying to bend it to his will only leads to pain and suffering.


Quote:

Could Luke's plan to rescue Han have been better or at least more straightforward? Absolutely. This is not a "plot hole" but rather the foundation on which the climax of Luke's hero's journey is built upon. The actual specifics of the plan don't make a lot of sense, and it's supposed to be obvious to the audience that there were easier ways they could have done this. (That it's also a whole lot of fun is just a lucky coincidence.) The point of the Jabba caper was to teach Luke that being a Jedi is not using his power to manipulate the outcome of events but, rather, making the right choices when such conflict arises.
AliasMan02
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C@LAg said:

dafuq?

so does their pay service have commercials? Why not make them 55 minutes or an hour?


Pretty standard. Leaves the option to air on networks in other markets, with commercials. Netflix and HBO and other premium networks do this. Plus, most TV writers are pretty locked into that length for the sake of flow and pacing.
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Crossposting in both threads.

With both franchises having major culminations this year, who is gonna have the bigger 2019? Marvel or Star Wars?
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For further reference, aside from their final movies, this is what we're getting this year.

Marvel:
Captain Marvel
Spiderman Far From Home

Star Wars:
The Mandalorian series
Clone Wars
Opening of Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge
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txagman1998
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Quote:

For further reference, aside from their final movies, this is what we're getting this year.

Marvel:
Captain Marvel
Spiderman Far From Home

Star Wars:
The Mandalorian series
Clone Wars
Opening of Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge


Don't forget Star Wars: Resistance. The second half of Season 1 starts on Sunday, and Season 2 is confirmed for Fall of this year.
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Agree with much of this video. Specifically,

- Obi-Wan movie
- Darth Maul movie or series (Pre-TPM)
- Vader movie (Obviously)
- Old Republic (Could be the B&W movies)

Thoughts? Other things you want to see?
AgMarauder04
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Hello there said:



Agree with much of this video. Specifically,

- Obi-Wan movie
- Darth Maul movie or series (Pre-TPM)
- Vader movie (Obviously)
- Old Republic (Could be the B&W movies)

Thoughts? Other things you want to see?


FFS, GIVE ME A ROGUE SQUADRON SHOW
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fig96
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AliasMan02 said:

C@LAg said:

dafuq?

so does their pay service have commercials? Why not make them 55 minutes or an hour?


Pretty standard. Leaves the option to air on networks in other markets, with commercials. Netflix and HBO and other premium networks do this. Plus, most TV writers are pretty locked into that length for the sake of flow and pacing.
Er, no they don't.

Netflix and HBO shows often run an hour or more, literally just watched the 55 minute premiere of True Detective. At a glance Narcos Mexico, Ozark, and House of Cards run 50 minutes up to over an hour with occasional shorter eps.
agracer
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daggertx said:

Urban Ag said:

TV Casualty said:

PatAg said:

So we're in the bad fan fiction part of the year eh?


Disney could have made better movies going off of fan fiction on the internet rather than the crap Abrams, Kennedy, and Johnson have been shoveling our way.
Slightly perplexed by this sentiment.

We're four movies in with Disney.

The Force Awakens was good, not great, but good.
Rogue One was absolutely amazing. Top 3 general consensus.
TLJ was bad. No argument there.
Solo was good. Better than TFA in my opinion. Generally well received by critics and fans alike. It had disappointing performance at the box office but there are a lot of compelling reasons to explain that beyond the quality of the film itself.

Disney is not hitting it out of the park with SW the way they are with the MCU. But to act like SW has become hot garbage overall seems completely unfounded.
TLJ killed star wars for me and a lot of people. I no longer care about it at all and will no longer pay money to see the movies.

Its dead Jim,

Also, the force awakens was jar jar territory. I loved the part when mary sue beat a sith having never used a lightsaber before, and the exact same plot as a New Hope. Really?




I think a lot of people were able to see past some of the holes (like the lightsaber battle) in TFA because; it was well written, well directed, the story was decent (yes it was a rehash of ANH), great visuals and the acting was mostly good. It felt like a SW movie...good action, hero's, villains, ...and it has been a long time since SW was on the big screen. Everyone wanted to know "what happens next, who are Rey's parents, what's Luke been up too, what will he do with his light saber...."..

Then the crap that is TLJ comes out and IMO a lot of folks just piled on TFA b/c the crap from the 2nd movie spilled over into the first.
Flashdiaz
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agracer said:




Then the crap that is TLJ comes out and IMO a lot of folks just piled on TFA b/c the crap from the 2nd movie spilled over into the first.

it's not that it spilled over, it's that TLJ did nothing to supplement TLJ. In fact, it went out of it's way to do the opposite.

TFA: Introduces Snoke, everyone knows him and fears him
TLJ: no explanation on back story, killed off (which i'm ok with)

TFA: Is Hux a formidable adversary to Kylo Ren within the First order?
TLJ: First minute Mom Joke, tossed around on set.

TFA: Introduces Rey with no parents. Hints that she could be Luke's, but she knows the Falcon and acts like Han
TLJ: She's a nobody, her parents were drunk college kids.

TFA: Rey is strong with the force and can handle a lightsaber, did Kylo take it easy on her?
TLJ: Nope. and she needs no further training. She is more powerful than Luke and Anakin with less training.

TFA: Lukes Lightsaber
TLJ: Literal toss away

TFA: Kylo Ren in a mask
TLJ: Take off that mask you child it looks ridiculous

TFA: The Knights of Ren
TLJ: Thankfully omitted. Truly thank you for this Rian.

dammit you made me TLJ bash.... when do they announce Episode IX??
AgMarauder04
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Thanks, A**hat.

I didn't hate TLJ.

Now, I kinda do.
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