Star Wars Discussion Thread

3,106,297 Views | 29842 Replies | Last: 5 hrs ago by Brian Earl Spilner
AgLiving06
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Farmer1906 said:

SeattleAgJr said:

Farmer1906 said:

Kyle has been poorly written? I'd say he's one of the best in the new movies. He's the imperfect bad guy that we almost never get in movies.
how is he "imperfect"?

He is a defective, selfish evil brat.

Nothing "imperfect" about him.

He has consciously made every step he has done - from killing the others in Luke's school, to joining Snoke, the
killing as part of the First order, killing his dad, etc.

are you saying that because he willingly does this, but feels bad about it, he is "imperfect"?


He loses his cool and throws temper tantrums. He teetered on the light and dark edge. When he meet him he's clearly dark, but Han almost brings him back only to plunge him deeper as his victim. Then we see him not take the shot at his mom and turn on Snoke because he wanted take more of a gray path and lead.

He's clearly not pure evil like Snoke or Palpatine. He's not some evil genius with this great master plan thinking 10 steps ahead, but he's got balls and skills. He's the most interesting character by far.

I thought this was a great point made in the TLJ. Neither Kylo or Rey are near as capable as Snoke or Luke, yet they are now leading their respective groups.

They are both inexperienced and flawed, but the most powerful force on each side.
SpreadsheetAg
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CJS4715 said:

Jar Jar Abrams on Youtube likes to create sweet edits to attack the Mouse version of SW.
Got any examples?
Brian Earl Spilner
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Farmer1906 said:

Kyle has been poorly written? I'd say he's one of the best in the new movies. He's the imperfect bad guy that we almost never get in movies.


What he said.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Brian Earl Spilner said:






TCTTS
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Becoming more and more convinced that Hamill/Luke isn't coming back...

SeattleAgJr
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good for him!

after TLJ, I would too.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Zero chance he doesn't at least cameo. You do not end the saga without Luke.

Would take just about any bet.
CJS4715
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Rian killed Luke, and we didn't even riot. We just sat there and watched Luke die. We should count ourselves lucky that Chewie survived the movie.
redline248
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For those who don't want to read the article:

Quote:

When discussing how he would have liked to have more emotional moments for Luke, particularly with dealing with Han's death, Hamill said, "They had time for me to milk that big alien, but to show any human emotion? 'Nah, we don't have time for that.' But, you know, again, it's not my call."
Chipotlemonger
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Some of y'all really have an issue with believing that a character and person can change over time. There is a ton of time and ton of events between RotJ and TLJ.
amercer
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On the one hand Mark probably was a little pissed about what they did with Luke. On the other hand he likes to troll, and has basically spent his life giving back to Star Wars fans. I don't really think he'd say no to a role in the next film.

Now if Disney was smart, they would make an anthology film about Luke roaming the galaxy kicking ass and collecting Force artifacts after ROTJ. That would make everyone happy.
CJS4715
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amercer said:

On the one hand Mark probably was a little pissed about what they did with Luke. On the other hand he likes to troll, and has basically spent his life giving back to Star Wars fans. I don't really think he'd say no to a role in the next film.



I have felt this way each time he throws a negative comment out there, but the mentioning of Harrison and Carrie being out makes this feel more real.
Cstrickland05
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Zero chance he doesn't at least cameo. You do not end the saga without Luke.

Would take just about any bet.


Could have said the same thing about getting at least one scene with Luke, Leia, and Han together. That didn't happen either.
redline248
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Chipotlemonger said:

Some of y'all really have an issue with believing that a character and person can change over time. There is a ton of time and ton of events between RotJ and TLJ.


I don't think this is it. The real issue for fans is that, thanks to this new trilogy, Luke's legacy is one of failure. For the 2nd time in the Star Wars universe the Jedi are on the edge of extinction, and it's partly his fault.

You talk about a character changing, so let's dig deeper. In Return of the Jedi, Luke's changes from a man teetering on the edge of the dark side to resisting it and becoming a Jedi. Then, 30 years later he almost falls back by nearly killing his nephew? Then, he runs in shame? What kind of change is that?
Chipotlemonger
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This is getting ridiculous, do people just want a retread of the original for each new movie that comes out? Same characters and all?

RotJ wrapped up that story segment very well! We don't need to see everybody slapping backs and cracking jokes about the good old days to make a movie good or worthwhile.

I am a huge Star Wars fan. It's obvious that there aren't huge fans for differing reasons though. Some just won't be happy, some are okay with new stuff if it's done right, etc. etc.
Chipotlemonger
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Sounds like a fine change to me. What's so miraculous or unbelievable about any of that?
TCTTS
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Exactly.

At this point I think we get, at max, a single line or two of voice over dialogue from Force Ghost Luke in some kind of montage or vision, but no on camera appearance.
CJS4715
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I think this just shows that the original characters were a land mine in this franchise. The true test for Disney is the anthology films and whatever trilogy they attempt after IX.
SpreadsheetAg
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Quote:

okay with new stuff if it's done right,
This is where I am at... so far; C- ... enjoyable, but so much potential left on the table (or cutting room floor)...
Brian Earl Spilner
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Let's not forget it's JJ doing IX. For better or worse, he has a massive "respect/reverence" for the mythology in a way that Rian seemingly (according to many people) does not.

So, I'd expect JJ to at least use Luke in a way that would make most of the Star Wars fanbase happy.
redline248
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JJ created this mess in the first place
SpreadsheetAg
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redline248 said:

JJ created this mess in the first place
My big question is can JJ connect 7 to 9 and just basically disregard 8 happened (except for Luke gone, etc.)?

Basically imagine JJ is Old Luke; and Episode 8 is the lightsaber he tosses over his shoulder.
Farmer1906
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Zero chance he doesn't at least cameo. You do not end the saga without Luke.

Would take just about any bet.
This.
Farmer1906
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redline248 said:

JJ created this mess in the first place
What mess was that?
SpreadsheetAg
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Wrote this right after TLJ:

Quote:

I think we are probably going to see the opening of IX with the end of a Funeral Ceremony for Leia.

Every Star Wars scene after the opening scrawl is in space focusing on a ship...

What if:

SCRAWL...
... PRINCESS LEIA HAS BECOME ONE WITH THE FORCE...
...SCRAWL

Pan down to show the Millenium Falcon attached to a very large asteroid by itself in space. The Falcon lifts off leaving behind a white cylinder on the surface of the asteroid with an inscription like "Leia Organa Solo, Rebel, Fighter, Princess..."

Zoom out as the Falcon lifts off to show that the asteroid is the largest in a field of asteroids of what was left of Alderaan...

Cut to Rey, Chewie, Finn, and Poe on the Falcon trying to decide where to go next..
Zombie Jon Snow
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SpreadsheetAg said:

redline248 said:

JJ created this mess in the first place
My big question is can JJ connect 7 to 9 and just basically disregard 8 happened (except for Luke gone, etc.)?

Basically imagine JJ is Old Luke; and Episode 8 is the lightsaber he tosses over his shoulder.

Yes he can.....

I mean the odd thing about VIII is it took place over what 2-3 days tops.

you could leap forward 2-3 years and do just about anything you wanted to.

by then a new resistance army could be built
or Poe is an experienced general
and Rey could be training that whole time with the Jedi books she stole and force ghost Luke, etc.
and the KoR could become a player
and of course Leia could have passed naturally and peacefully
and Canto Bight gets shut down by SJW (offscreen please)
and Rose could die in a tragic smelting accident

CJS4715
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SpreadsheetAg said:

Cut to Rey, Chewie, Finn, and Poe on the Falcon trying to decide where to go next..


So no time jump in your version?
redline248
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Farmer1906 said:

redline248 said:

JJ created this mess in the first place
What mess was that?


It was meant as a joke.

But...in particular the mess surrounding Luke. JJ was the one that decided to have him run off, be everyone's focus in TLJ, and then do nothing with him.
SpreadsheetAg
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CJS4715 said:

SpreadsheetAg said:

Cut to Rey, Chewie, Finn, and Poe on the Falcon trying to decide where to go next..


So no time jump in your version?
Leia could survive another 5 years in my version...

1. End of TLJ
2. 5 years elapse
3. Leia Dies
4. Scene
TCTTS
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Technically that was Lucas' "decision." He's the one who suggested Luke be a hermit on an ancient Jedi island and then have the young female lead find him and ask to be trained. That was the big thing they kept from Lucas' outline, except the training-on-an-island thing was Lucas' Episode VII, not VIII. It was Abrams, however, who decided to have Luke instead only appear in the final scene of VII with no dialogue, and basically start the trilogy well before Lucas would have. But in between Lucas' sequel trilogy treatment and Abrams making that decision, Michael Arndt (the first Episode VII writer) apparently gave Luke a bit more to do in the final act, as his draft was potentially more of a hybrid of the two.
TCTTS
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I woud highly recommend The Art Of books for TFA and TLJ for further details. Together, they paint a fairly complete picture of the evolution of the overall story, from Lucas' treatments to Johnson's decision. That said, there's still A LOT the books leave out, and I hope that one day we get to read both Lucas' treatment and Arndt's first draft, because I'm incredibly interested to see what could have been. Both books hint at the movies we might have gotten, and in some cases they're worse, but in many others they're so much better.
Ag Since 83
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The Art of books are really fantastic all around. I especially like the VII one because the possibilities on where it could go were much more open and they let the artists go nuts. Some stuff I would have hated in the movie, but cool art with great anecdotes about what they were thinking

I also have the Ready Player One Art of book arriving this week and I can't wait to see it. That movie should have some amazing concept art
CJS4715
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Yea, good point. I mixed Star Wars with real life; I guess it happens.
CJS4715
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So, wait, Lucas' script demanded the female protagonist get training from a man before besting an experienced Jedi / what ever Kylo is?
Brian Earl Spilner
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I checked out the TFA one and was blown away. Early drafts of Rey's home planet (the junkyard planet) were amazing.

I need to check out the TLJ one.
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