Big...yeah greatest. Bahahaha

I don't get the big deal with Eminem. He's not that special/great. I bet people wouldn't look twice if he wasn't white.

Not saying he's bad, but he doesn't belong anywhere near a top 5 rappers of all time.

And I think the fact he is white is why people keep him out of the discussion. Black people seem to appreciate his ability more than white people do.

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I don't get the big deal with Eminem. He's not that special/great. I bet people wouldn't look twice if he wasn't white.

Not saying he's bad, but he doesn't belong anywhere near a top 5 rappers of all time.

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No, he is actually that good. I've never heard a collaboration song where he didn't blow the other guy out of the water in just about every conceivable way. He has made so many rappers look like junior high kids trying to rap.

The fact that he is white has nothing to do with his talent.

Em's flow and delivery can be so creative & comes off so effortlessly. What that dude can do with a rhyme is impressive. Belongs in this conversation no doubt.

I can't go back and listen to any Eminem songs as an adult. His music and ryhmes never grew up.

Technically speaking he is great but if your music has no soul there is no point in making it.

No soul? WTF does that even mean? Is he not ghetto enough for you? It's funny because people say the same crap about guitar players. "Jack White is a better guitar player than Stevie Ray Vaughn because SRV has no "soul".

It's difficult to determine the "best rapper of all time". Different generations produce a different type of artist; different styles emerge, from west, to east, to south, even international. It's similar to the who's the best player of all time, MJ vs. Kobe vs. LeBron talk. Hard to say b/c MJ played in a different generation; Kobe and LeBron are part of a new generation with an evolving athlete.

For me, it's easier to determine the best rapper when breaking it down into regions (East, West, South) and into time frames (80s, 90s, 00s, etc).

JMO.

Tupac had his way with Biggie's girl. That right there tells you who the alpha dog was

Em of the late 90s and early 00s was the best in the game. Since then, he's been pretty shiity.

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No soul? WTF does that even mean? Is he not ghetto enough for you?

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Substance might be a better word. Eminem is the Howard Stern of rap music. He rarely engages you in his music through a sustained narrative, he just keeps you listening to see what he will say next. I guess that is why a few guys in this thread have said they haven't been able to go back and listen to his music as adults. I will say he is very capable of creating music with substance and the song "Renegade" is a perfect example but he has chosen not to throughout his career.

BIG's music spoke to his community but also resonated with those outside of the "ghetto". He was beloved in Brooklyn but also sold records worldwide. His narratives transcended socio economic status and engaged many on an emotional level. Wether you were identifying with his struggle in "Juicy" or enjoying life through songs like "Hypnotize" BIG had something in his repertoire for any fan.

Also, anyone saying Jack White has more soul than SRV is an idiot.

[This message has been edited by Texag06ish (edited 3/10/2013 1:17p).]

Nas isn't getting enough love on this thread.

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Tupac had his way with Biggie's girl. That right there tells you who the alpha dog was

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Biggie was also fat and not very good looking whereas Tupac was a shredded, good looking man. It shouldn't be that much of a surprise that he could steal a woman like that. This really had nothing to do with who was the alpha dog and who wasn't.

It's like comparing Brad Pitt to Tom Hanks. Both of phenomenal actors, but it's extremely obvious which one is better looking and which one women would rather sleep with.

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Substance might be a better word. Eminem is the Howard Stern of rap music. He rarely engages you in his music through a sustained narrative, he just keeps you listening to see what he will say next. I guess that is why a few guys in this thread have said they haven't been able to go back and listen to his music as adults. I will say he is very capable of creating music with substance and the song "Renegade" is a perfect example but he has chosen not to throughout his career.

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Stan didn't engage you? Lose Yourself didn't engage you? Did you actually listen to his music or are you just pulling **** out of your ass? Those are two unbelievable rap songs. No one else who is in the game now has talent like that (at least no one who is popular).

rapper argument toughness

In response to texags06ish saying "multiple people have said they cant relate to eminem's old stuff". You are the only one that made this post, and you made it 3 separate times. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Nas and Rakim are the best. Everyone else doesn't come close to those two.

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Substance might be a better word. Eminem is the Howard Stern of rap music. He rarely engages you in his music through a sustained narrative, he just keeps you listening to see what he will say next. I guess that is why a few guys in this thread have said they haven't been able to go back and listen to his music as adults. I will say he is very capable of creating music with substance and the song "Renegade" is a perfect example but he has chosen not to throughout his career.

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Stan didn't engage you? Lose Yourself didn't engage you? Did you actually listen to his music or are you just pulling **** out of your ass? Those are two unbelievable rap songs. No one else who is in the game now has talent like that (at least no one who is popular).

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No. Neither did.

Patag,

Only made it twice but good point.

[This message has been edited by Texag06ish (edited 3/10/2013 8:26p).]

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Nas and Rakim are the best. Everyone else doesn't come close to those two.

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QFT

Rakim was the innovator and Nas brought it to perfection. Illmatic is still the greatest album of all time.

Eminem has infinite substance compared to the Party Party Good Time music "rappers" are putting out now. Rap has lost its soul.

Riff Raff are Krispy Kreme are 1a and 1b.

Illmatic was the commercial success that Havoc and Prodigy never had.

Is this sorta like the greatest hula hooper of all time?

As in, who cares?

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I don't get the big deal with Eminem. He's not that special/great. I bet people wouldn't look twice if he wasn't white.

Not saying he's bad, but he doesn't belong anywhere near a top 5 rappers of all time.

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Took the words out of my mouth.

Em is very talented.....but GOAT????

Not even close to guys like PAC, BIG, NAS, Jay Z, Old School Snoop

Rakim
Black Thought
Andre 3000
Ghostface
Q-tip
Pos from De la Soul
Big
Nas
Pac
Krs one

Honorable mention:
Talib Kweli
Mighty Mos Def
Common
Gift of Gab
Pac


[This message has been edited by Qunique_2004 (edited 3/12/2013 5:58p).]

Tupac makes both lists? No Jay-Z?

my favorite em verse is on 50 cent's patiently waiting.

On Eminem:

Has the rapping ability to be the best pure emcee of all time. Does not have the catalog. His best album was what, The Marshall Mathers LP? And that album was about as uneven as it gets. His career, I guess as an inescapable result of the way he marketed himself, is full of unnecessary filler.

But then he does this and you wonder how anybody in the world can outrap him. Or has EVER outrapped him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvRxVBjtEiY

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Illmatic was the commercial success that Havoc and Prodigy never had.

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Illmatic was not considered a great commercial success when it was first released. The album's success was a slow and continuous rise in sales as more and more people and publications proclaimed it a quintessential, must-own hip-hop album.

It didn't go platinum until a couple of years ago, I think.

While you can't really put him in the GOAT conversation for any number of reasons, it would be a mistake not to at least mention Talib Kweli.


EDIT: Just saw him in an honorable mention spot. I may go listen to the Black Star album today in honor of him and Mos Def.

[This message has been edited by MW03 (edited 3/12/2013 11:08a).]

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Illmatic was not considered a great commercial success when it was first released.

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I'm pretty sure it debuted very high but I'm not sure where it ended the year. I know Stillmatic sold much much better. But it doesnt negate the fact the Illmatic was very much a commercial (and critical) success compared to Mobb Deep's relative footnote in hip hop history and imo Mobb Deep > Nas.

Thinking back, what other commercially viable rap came out in '94? Offhand I can think of Ill Communication and Warren G's Regulate. Gotta be much more. No way Illmatic's dark tone and NYC underbelly subject could compare to those two commercially. Slow burner indeed.

qunique - I'll take Big Boi over Andre.

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I don't get the big deal with Eminem. He's not that special/great. I bet people wouldn't look twice if he wasn't white.

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He makes a mockery of Jay-Z and Lil Wayne on "Renegade" and "No Love". If you can make Jay-Z come across as a desprate up-and-comer looking for help from a superior "headliner" on a single, when it's actually the other way around...you're doing it right. I am not the biggest Eminem fan, but the dude is amazing and I am not sure any rapper has ever come close. He could rap circles around Biggie and Pac in their prime. He returned to greatness on his last CD after ditching the heavy drug habit.

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But then he does this and you wonder how anybody in the world can outrap him. Or has EVER outrapped him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvRxVBjtEiY

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Never heard of that Yella Wolf guy but damn