I HATE THIS F-IN TOPIC!!!!!!!

Should I post:

THEN MOVE TO ANOTHER THREAD.

Several times?

he isnt smart enough to understand.....do you really expect him to handle it in a mature manner?

Wow. I may not have ever taken a physics class, but I dang sure got my pilot's license.

You guys are arguing about the relationship between thrust and drag, and that will tell you all you want to know about acceleration. But air flight happens when lift is greater than gravity. And if you don't have air moving over and under an airfoil (such as a wing), then you won't get any lift, and that plane will sit on the ground (or conveyor) just like you and me.

I'd like to hear some of y'all explain how a glider works if you're convinced that thrust through the engine creating exhaust is what makes the plane fly.

One last time:

The speed of conveyor belt does not affect the forward progress of the plane. It would only affect the rpm's of the wheels. The plane will move forward and therefore fly.

duh ...

Unless the wheels explode due to too much centrifugal force, causing the plane to run on rims and sucking tire debris into the intake.

had anybody ever said that the plane would not move forward and yet still take off, senor? exactly......

I cannot believe you people are still arguing about his topic. It is so simple.

And the answer is:
































You are all nerds, and i don't know if it would take off, I was a Liberal Arts major.

quote:

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You are all nerds, and i don't know if it would take off, I was a Liberal Arts major. Would you like fries with that?

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Fixed.

Chuy

First, the treadmill is one of those impossible scenereos. With the skateboard/treadmill/rope example, any movement towards the front of the treadmill will result in an increase in speed of said treadmill. If the wheels are frictionless, then any rearward motion against them is moot. Infinite motion backwards by the treadmill is negated by infinite forward motion by the wheels resulting in 0 forward motion in relation to the ground.

With the engines taken into the equasion, you are now looking at the planes movement in relation to the air. Just like the rope/skateboard/treadmill example; the plane will move forward.

If the jet was on a treadmill in an air tunnel, where the treadmill negated the forward motion in relation to the ground and the wind tunnel negated any forward motion in relation to the air, the plane wouldn't go anywhere. Absent the air tunnel, the plane flies.

With friction being 0 and engine thrust being infinite, the only constant is the quantity (density) of air. The engines must still propel the plane forward in relation to the ground. As more air is sucked into the engine while it is stationairy, a bigger vacuum is created in front of the plane and there are less "air atoms" with which to create thrust. At some point nearing infinite mph, there won't be any air in front of the engine with which to create additional thrust and the plane won't fly.

The air in the given atmosphere would have to either rush around the globe to the front of the engine again (at ever increasing speed), or flow backwards over and under the wing, thus negating any lift.

In the end, constant air pressure, constant temperature, zero friction, zero top limits of speed, etc. become an impossible scenerio (sp) that isn't worth wasting time or thought over.

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If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

Fries?!?!?!?!

Heck no, I am not nearly that talented yet. What do you think I am, a business major?


"Liberal Arts, we do less all day than most people do by 8am"

this isnt nerd stuff at all...it is a simple test to see whether you are smart enough to contemplate the fact that a plane does not use its wheels as propulsion and recognize that a conveyor belt wouldnt keep the plane from moving forward (in this theoretical situation)

Exactly

if the conveyor is increasing speed with the plane, how will the plane move forward?

The plane will move forward due to the interaction of the propellors with the air mass. If the conveyor increases speed, the wheels on the plane will just increase their rpm's. The plane will still move forward.

( ... sigh ... )

It will fly. Its so easy when just you think about it.

well what if the conveyor increases speed equal to the amount of propulsion.

Then the wheels will turn faster.

Are the wheel bearings Abercrombie-sized?

If I run on the treadmill, does wind start blowing in my face?

The jets may move a jet forward, but it's the wind speed across the wings that makes it fly.

There's no wind across the wings in this example. And no, the jets don't move enough air over the wings to creat lift.

I can't believe some replies on this thread.

so if im riding a skateboard on a treadmill with a jetpack on my back. You turn the jetpack on, it increases your speed while the speed of the treadmill increases equaling it. You go nowhere. Right?

Again,

The speed of the conveyor is moot.

Some of you folks need to take elementary physics.

The wheels on the skateboard will spin at rpm's related to the speed of the conveyor belt plus your forward velocity caused by a rocket pack.

You will move forward.

Your skateboard wheels will just rotate faster when the conveyor is on than when it is off.

if your wheels are rotating at the same speed as the conveyor you arent going forward.

Take a car and sit it on a frozen lake.

Take an airplane and sit it on a frozen lake.

Try to accelerate in the car.. Guess what, your wheels just spin.

Go full throttle in teh airplane, you accelerate and takeoff. Infact you'd probably accelerate quicker due to the ice.

The plane will fly. geez.

quote:

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if your wheels are rotating at the same speed as the conveyor you arent going forward.

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Beyond bearing friction the rpm's of the wheels have no effect on the forward movement of the plane.

The wheels are not the source of the propulsion.

It's really simple when you think about it. Plane will fly, assuming the wheels can handle the high speed.

I really, really like this thread.

Goose,

I'm just wingin' it the best I can.

Keegan is the one who is really right here, though. The whole f-in thing would quickly explode.