Ghost Job Postings should be made illegal

5,575 Views | 50 Replies | Last: 9 mo ago by infinity ag
infinity ag
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1:12p, 1/20/24
Wastes everyone's time.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karadennison/2023/11/27/how-ghost-job-postings-are-creating-a-false-sense-of-hope/?sh=2e458077dc0a


Quote:
Other reasons hiring managers post "fake" job postings include:

  • Some hiring managers admitted that they wanted to give the impression that the company was growing.
  • Others said they posted jobs to assure their overworked staff that they were seeking ways to help them.
  • A different group said they left listings open, hoping their perfect candidate would eventually apply.

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Ryan the Temp
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1:31p, 1/20/24
AG
And postings that don't list a salary range.
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Caesar4
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In reply to infinity ag • 1:33p, 1/20/24
AG
I've heard that headhunters also do this, just to collect resumes just in case a job came available (if they were hired by another company to fill an opening). The motivation was that the headhunter would have a set of resumes on-hand to act on, quickly.

ETA: Oh, my comment is essentially conveyed in the article.
Quote:
..discovered that 50% of hiring managers created job openings to keep a warm talent pool "at the ready" for when they are hiring...
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The Dog Lord
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2:09p, 1/20/24
AG
Same people: "No one is loyal or wants to work anymore."
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AtticusMatlock
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2:12p, 1/20/24
Curious if these listings are included in the "new jobs" calculation by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
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OCEN99
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2:21p, 1/20/24
AG


What, you think those nameless ghouls just replace themselves by magic?
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Claude!
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In reply to OCEN99 • 2:59p, 1/20/24
OCEN99 said:


What, you think those nameless ghouls just replace themselves by magic?
Not sure you're quite on the square.
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Ag with kids
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In reply to Ryan the Temp • 3:00p, 1/20/24
AG
Ryan the Temp said:
And postings that don't list a salary range.
I'll admit I skip over these since I figure the pay will be too low and I don't want to waste my time or theirs even starting up the interview process.
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infinity ag
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In reply to The Dog Lord • 3:37p, 1/20/24
The Dog Lord said:
Same people: "No one is loyal or wants to work anymore."

"We have a skills gap in America. To fill it, we need to import more people from overseas".

While here in America, skilled workers sit idle.
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toucan82
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4:44p, 1/20/24
No, those workers are pretty crappy
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Ragnar Danneskjoldd
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4:46p, 1/20/24
AG
My dad entered unemployment very late in his career, found it really hard to find anyone willing to give him a chance. Those ghost jobs absolutely broke him. Every time he thought he had a lead the rug was pulled out. He wasn't prepared for it, hadn't been in the job market for decades. The people who post those are absolute trash of the lowest order.
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Caesar4
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In reply to Ragnar Danneskjoldd • 5:10p, 1/20/24
AG
I'm a tad worried about that. I appreciate raises/bonuses/stock, but I wonder/worry that there may be a change of heart/direction and I'm let go, motivated by the desire to cut costs.

I'd be perfectly willing, if that were to happen, to take a pay cut and re-enter the tech industry with a more junior role, but not sure if companies would take a chance on an older employee.
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Sea Speed
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5:54p, 1/20/24
AG
I say we just eliminate jobs altogether. Everyone deserves a living wage no matter what they choose to do with their time.
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Caesar4
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In reply to Sea Speed • 6:09p, 1/20/24
AG
Without long-term motivation, I'm afraid with what I'd do with my time.
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Jack Cheese
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In reply to Caesar4 • 6:57p, 1/20/24
AG
Caesar4 said:
Without long-term motivation, I'm afraid with what I'd do with my time.

KermitLotion.gif
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superunknown
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7:30p, 1/20/24
AG
this is all a woman's fault probably
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Ragnar Danneskjoldd
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In reply to superunknown • 7:32p, 1/20/24
AG
superunknown said:
this is all a woman's fault probably


Well yeah, they'll all work for 80 cents on the dollar for some reason
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FIDO*98*
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8:07p, 1/20/24
AG
Ghost jobs suck, but at the end of the day you haven't invested tons of time because you're not getting called/interviewed. The real sh*tty situation is one in which the hiring manager already has the candidate he/she wants and other people interviewing are simply there to check an HR box. My last 3 jobs were that situation and my managers already new they were going to hire me. It did nothing more than waste everyone's time and slow down the onboarding process for me
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OCEN99
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In reply to Claude! • 8:10p, 1/20/24
AG
Claude! said:
OCEN99 said:


What, you think those nameless ghouls just replace themselves by magic?
Not sure you're quite on the square.
I assure you, I am on the level.
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Ryan the Temp
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In reply to Ag with kids • 8:33p, 1/20/24
AG
Ag with kids said:
Ryan the Temp said:
And postings that don't list a salary range.
I'll admit I skip over these since I figure the pay will be too low and I don't want to waste my time or theirs even starting up the interview process.
I will never apply for a job that doesn't list a salary. I assume they can't afford me.
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BartInLA
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8:34p, 1/20/24
I can't tell you how many candidates for faculty professors are brought in for interviews when 65% of the time the search committee already knows who will be hired. Public universities HAVE to post openings even if it's a sham by law.
I and two other grad students got free/guaranteed interviews at a conference and we all decided they weren't really looking. The three interviewers looked so put off and bored. Because I knew it was a lost cause when one asked why I wanted to teach at U of A Fayetteville, I said because I like the Razorbacks Soooie pig. They laughed.

I didn't get the job.
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Frok
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In reply to Caesar4 • 8:58p, 1/20/24
AG
Caesar4 said:
I'm a tad worried about that. I appreciate raises/bonuses/stock, but I wonder/worry that there may be a change of heart/direction and I'm let go, motivated by the desire to cut costs.

I'd be perfectly willing, if that were to happen, to take a pay cut and re-enter the tech industry with a more junior role, but not sure if companies would take a chance on an older employee.


Age-ism is a true injustice that actually does happen.
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maroon barchetta
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In reply to FIDO*98* • 8:59p, 1/20/24
FIDO*98* said:
Ghost jobs suck, but at the end of the day you haven't invested tons of time because you're not getting called/interviewed. The real sh*tty situation is one in which the hiring manager already has the candidate he/she wants and other people interviewing are simply there to check an HR box. My last 3 jobs were that situation and my managers already new they were going to hire me. It did nothing more than waste everyone's time and slow down the onboarding process for me


So, kind of like The Rooney Rule?
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AggieArchitect04
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11:43p, 1/20/24
AG
Why would you want to apply to be a ghost?
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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to infinity ag • 1:15a, 1/21/24
AG
infinity ag said:
The Dog Lord said:
Same people: "No one is loyal or wants to work anymore."

"We have a skills gap in America. To fill it, we need to import more people from overseas".

While here in America, skilled workers sit idle.
Troof

In my line of work it mostly has to do with the fact that regular Americans are not willing to stuff themselves into apartments in the Bay Area at the same density as H-1B visa holders.
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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to FIDO*98* • 1:18a, 1/21/24
AG
FIDO*98* said:
Ghost jobs suck, but at the end of the day you haven't invested tons of time because you're not getting called/interviewed. The real sh*tty situation is one in which the hiring manager already has the candidate he/she wants and other people interviewing are simply there to check an HR box. My last 3 jobs were that situation and my managers already new they were going to hire me. It did nothing more than waste everyone's time and slow down the onboarding process for me
Yep. I've got about 8 people who need to tick a box for every candidate I hire.
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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to Frok • 1:21a, 1/21/24
AG
Frok said:
Caesar4 said:
I'm a tad worried about that. I appreciate raises/bonuses/stock, but I wonder/worry that there may be a change of heart/direction and I'm let go, motivated by the desire to cut costs.

I'd be perfectly willing, if that were to happen, to take a pay cut and re-enter the tech industry with a more junior role, but not sure if companies would take a chance on an older employee.


Age-ism is a true injustice that actually does happen.
Other side of the coin is true too.

I've got a gatekeeper who won't let me hire anyone with less than 15 years experience when I could get by with a fresh college grad.

Then he complains about the fact I'm hiring people at $150k. Uh, because you won't let me hire anybody at $50k.
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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to infinity ag • 1:27a, 1/21/24
AG
For the OP, I've gone through this a number of times where I'm told I need to hire to a business plan.

I post a req, start screening candidates, start interviews, negotiate salary, etc

Then, sales quotas don't get met and hiring goes on hold, reqs get taken away. And as the hiring manager, I feel like I've wasted everybody's time, especially my own.

The best thing I can do is to hire someone as soon as a req gets opened. Close that candidate fast.
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Aston04
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In reply to infinity ag • 8:49a, 1/21/24
AG
infinity ag said:
Wastes everyone's time.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karadennison/2023/11/27/how-ghost-job-postings-are-creating-a-false-sense-of-hope/?sh=2e458077dc0a


Quote:
Other reasons hiring managers post "fake" job postings include:

  • Some hiring managers admitted that they wanted to give the impression that the company was growing.
  • Others said they posted jobs to assure their overworked staff that they were seeking ways to help them.
  • A different group said they left listings open, hoping their perfect candidate would eventually apply.

op--- yes because more regulation in this area will make the hiring process smoother.
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infinity ag
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In reply to FIDO*98* • 9:28a, 1/21/24
FIDO*98* said:
Ghost jobs suck, but at the end of the day you haven't invested tons of time because you're not getting called/interviewed. The real sh*tty situation is one in which the hiring manager already has the candidate he/she wants and other people interviewing are simply there to check an HR box. My last 3 jobs were that situation and my managers already new they were going to hire me. It did nothing more than waste everyone's time and slow down the onboarding process for me

This happened to me about 12 years ago. I was working in a very well known financial data company. It is a listed company and if you are an investor, you have heard of it. I was in a role for a few years and was looking for a change. So I saw something posted and email the internal recruiter to ask who the hiring manager was so I could contact them. She replied to say don't worry, it is not a real job, it was put there "for Immigration purposes".

So basically there was someone on a expiring work visa already in the role and the company wants to extend it, so the rule is they can hire a foreigner only if a US citizen is not available. So they post jobs and interview a bunch of people to create a paper trail, reject everyone and claim to Labor Dept that they could not find someone and have to extend the visa. It is done at that point.

The HR person wrote back admitting this fraud they were committing. I wish I had saved that email or send DoL a tip off.
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infinity ag
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In reply to HollywoodBQ • 9:32a, 1/21/24
HollywoodBQ said:
infinity ag said:
The Dog Lord said:
Same people: "No one is loyal or wants to work anymore."

"We have a skills gap in America. To fill it, we need to import more people from overseas".

While here in America, skilled workers sit idle.
Troof

In my line of work it mostly has to do with the fact that regular Americans are not willing to stuff themselves into apartments in the Bay Area at the same density as H-1B visa holders.

You are right about that. I have seen that even in the Midwest. The Bay must be much worse. A friend of mine called and I went to meet him at the apartment he mentioned. This was in 2002 or so. I went to the apartment and see about 7 H1B visa holders in the apartment and the bedroom had several mattresses on the floor. It was horrifying and seemed like indentured servitude.
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Sea Speed
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In reply to infinity ag • 9:36a, 1/21/24
AG
Just imagine India if those are the conditions they prefer.
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infinity ag
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In reply to Sea Speed • 10:24a, 1/21/24
Sea Speed said:
Just imagine India if those are the conditions they prefer.

I think the plan is to deal with it for a few years, make money in dollars and go back home. $1 = INR 80 now so that is a good amount.
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bizag07
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In reply to infinity ag • 10:44a, 1/21/24
Do you in anyway think there should be government legality should be involved in how a job should and shouldn't be posted?

Sorry some people got their hopes based up (when they shouldn't have), and sorry that some people got their feelings hurt based on false hope.

But there is ZERO reason to believe that we need MORE government intervention on how the hiring process to work, based on nothing but a collection of anecdotal stories.

Tell me you don't post your own jobs and hire how you think you should hire, without telling me that people who hire nothing but low level staffers should be making those calls.
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Ragnar Danneskjoldd
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10:47a, 1/21/24
AG
Alot of places MUST interview a veteran by law for positions even if they are considered grossly unqualified for the position. Wasted so much of my time out of college.
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