Doomed Marriage or Bump in the Road?

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The Collective
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In reply to proc • 10:38a, 1/17/17
AG
proc said:
There are hundreds of reasons why she and he could be having issues so it is difficult to speculate. If they are both believers in the Bible, Song of Solomon can give them a lot of answers. Any faith based marriage can overcome issues if they communicate and work on it together.


This is true. I

have been in plenty of small groups where couples discuss way more information than you'd ever want to know about someone, and sex problems are rarely just a bedroom issue. There is usually something else going on in the relationship.
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The Collective
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In reply to wbt5845 • 10:39a, 1/17/17
AG
The thought of wbt's church asking him to provide marriage advice is a fun thought.
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Mort Rainey
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10:41a, 1/17/17
A shout out to church for making so many people hung up and guilt ridden about their sexual past with partners they didn't end up marrying. That's clearly a big part of what's going on here.
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AliasMan02
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In reply to Mort Rainey • 10:42a, 1/17/17
AG
GeorgePlimpton said:
A shout out to church for making so many people hung up and guilt ridden about their sexual past with partners they didn't end up marrying. That's clearly a big part of what's going on here.


Glad you can diagnose what is "clearly" going on based on a few paragraphs of second hand info.
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Mort Rainey
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In reply to AliasMan02 • 10:47a, 1/17/17
AliasMan02 said:
GeorgePlimpton said:
A shout out to church for making so many people hung up and guilt ridden about their sexual past with partners they didn't end up marrying. That's clearly a big part of what's going on here.


Glad you can diagnose what is "clearly" going on based on a few paragraphs of second hand info.
That's how I roll.


Maybe that's not what's going on at all, but i do feel like that can really be a problem for people who have gone to church for years. She associates hot sex with the "impure" things she did with ex and he can't get over her sexual past and is consumed with jealousy over it. I'm surprised it took ten years for them to talk about this

Or maybe she's just a lazy shrew who doesn't want to put out. Or maybe he's fat and bad at sex. Those are just as much guesses as my theory
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hillcountryag86
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10:52a, 1/17/17
AG
Can't wait for FTI to discover this thread.
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Atreides Ornithopter
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10:53a, 1/17/17
AG
He isn't doing anything to "please " her. i.e it may be he never asked and she probably never told him either. Plimpton may be a troll, but what he is saying is probably close to the truth about both of their idea of sex and what it should be in marriage compared to what happened before is just wrong/bad/ causing the issue.
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Mort Rainey
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In reply to Atreides Ornithopter • 10:55a, 1/17/17
Brennus said:
He isn't doing anything to "please " her. i.e it may be he never asked and she probably never told him either. Plimpton may be a troll, but what he is saying is probably close to the truth about both of their idea of sex and what it should be in marriage compared to what happened before is just wrong/bad/ causing the issue.
I'm not a troll! The only time I ever trolled was that pro Obama thread that went out of control. I can't control the crazies on the politics board. I'm a nice guy!
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Spotted Ag
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10:56a, 1/17/17
AG
This isn't going to really help your issue but I'll be damned if I'm going to try and help some other poor ****er **** his wife more while I'm still trying to figure out how to **** mine more...
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OregonAggie
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In reply to hillcountryag86 • 10:57a, 1/17/17
AG
hillcountryag86 said:
Can't wait for FTI to discover this thread.


[URL=.html][/URL]
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ClickClack
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10:58a, 1/17/17
AG
The way the wife is acting is exhibit A for why many men go elsewhere outside their marriage. It's really appealing, when your wife isn't ever "primal" about it, to discover a girl that's texting you every day wanting it and saying things you've never heard before.

People wonder why guys always seem to cheat with a girl who isn't "as pretty" as the wife. Makes no sense right? See above. Guys want a little freak. A lot can be solved by a husband and wife opening up and not being so reserved.
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Mort Rainey
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In reply to ClickClack • 11:00a, 1/17/17
ClickClack said:
The way the wife is acting is exhibit A for why many man go elsewhere. It's really appealing, when your wife isn't ever "primal" about it, to discover a girl that's texting you every day wanting it and saying things you've never heard before.

People wonder why guys always seem to cheat with a girl who isn't "as pretty" as the wife. Makes no sense right? See above. Guys want a little freak. A lot can be solved by a husband and wife opening up and not being so reserved.
Yeah I mean, as a guy maybe i don't get it. But I don't understand this. How hard can it be to fake enjoy sex with your husband three or four times a week for 20 minutes? He doesn't have to know the difference. Husbands and wives do all kinds of **** they don't want to do in a marriage while having to pretend it's fine. That's part of being married. But for some reason, sex is different for a woman and people think you should get a pass. If one spouse needs sex several times a week, pretend you like it and move on.
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mrad85
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In reply to Mort Rainey • 11:03a, 1/17/17
AG
GeorgePlimpton said:
ClickClack said:
Yeah I mean, as a guy maybe i don't get it. But I don't understand this. How hard can it be to fake enjoy sex with your husband three or four times a week for 20 minutes? He doesn't have to know the difference. Husbands and wives do all kinds of **** they don't want to do in a marriage while having to pretend it's fine. That's part of being married. But for some reason, sex is different for a woman and people think you should get a pass. If one spouse needs sex several times a week, pretend you like it and move on.

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austinrb10
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In reply to Mort Rainey • 11:04a, 1/17/17
AG
Actually, your comment did trigger something I failed to recall and communicate here. Her response "that was over 12 years ago. That relationship was all lust. It was primal. There was no real love there. I love you for so much for than just sex."

After she said 'there was no real love there' she did say "none of my relationships were true love. I thought sex made for real love until we met. I love you for so much more than just sex"

That's why we aren't made for giving advice. A pro would've caught that right away.
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BillYeoman
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In reply to austinrb10 • 11:10a, 1/17/17
Having 2 boys under 5 years of age might have something to do with it as well. The "Mom" title can change things.

Also, tell the husband to stop watching porn.
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wbt5845
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11:12a, 1/17/17
AG
Quote:
"I thought sex made for real love until we met."




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The Collective
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11:15a, 1/17/17
AG
I would go back to whomever put the couple in touch with you and tell them this is something beyond, "hey, these people just need advice from an older couple that has been there". Have they been to the pastor for counseling yet? If not, they should start there, and I would expect that he will push them somewhere outside the walls of the church for help.
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Mort Rainey
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In reply to BillYeoman • 11:20a, 1/17/17
BillYeoman said:
Having 2 boys under 5 years of age might have something to do with it as well. The "Mom" title can change things.

Also, tell the husband to stop watching porn.
Can you blame him if she hates doing it with him?


Which came first, the porn addiction or the wife who hates sex?
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80s Guy
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11:20a, 1/17/17
Pretty simple. He is a nice guy but either has 3 pump Chump issues or makes FTI look hung like a horse.

She's had bigger and better and he can't even rub both edges much less find the bottom. Therefore, she is either getting it on the side or has resolved that a good marriage to a good man is an,adequate trade for orgasms
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mrad85
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In reply to 80s Guy • 11:23a, 1/17/17
AG
80s Guy said:
Pretty simple. He is a nice guy but either has 3 pump Chump issues or makes FTI look hung like a horse.

She's had bigger and better and he can't even rub both edges much less find the bottom. Therefore, she is either getting it on the side or has resolved that a good marriage to a good man is an,adequate trade for orgasms

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Duncan Idaho
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In reply to austinrb10 • 11:24a, 1/17/17
Don't forvet the timeline
She got married at 21.
They dated for 2 years. 18 19.
She dumped a dude that she had been having "primal sex" with for 2 years which means they started dating at 16 or 17.

Which when you add it all together, you end up with she dumped her high school boyfriend for the older guy with a job that could get her in a house as soon as she graduated.

Now she is bored out of her mind because she is stuck with a dude that doesn't know how to **** and treats her like a princess and not a peer. So now she escapes to a time when she was free, rebellious and had her life still out in front of her.

Basically when he climbs on too of her, she thinks "this is my life now. It is safe and secure but I miss the excitement of not knowing what laid ahead. Remember when you were in high school and you would just **** in the cab of his truck? Or fingerbang at my parents dinner table?"



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wbt5845
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In reply to The Collective • 11:25a, 1/17/17
AG
CJS4715 said:
The thought of wbt's church asking him to provide marriage advice is a fun thought.
Frankly, I agree. Our priest and I are pretty good friends and he would LOL at the idea.
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80s Guy
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In reply to Duncan Idaho • 11:25a, 1/17/17
Damn, spot on
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Mort Rainey
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In reply to Duncan Idaho • 11:26a, 1/17/17
Duncan Idaho said:
Don't forvet the timeline
She got married at 21.
They dated for 2 years. 18 19.
She dumped a dude that she had been having "primal sex" with for 2 years which means they started dating at 16 or 17.

Which when you add it all together, you end up with she dumped her high school boyfriend for the older guy with a job that could get her in a house as soon as she graduated.

Now she is bored out of her mind because she is stuck with a dude that doesn't know how to **** and treats her like a princess and not a peer. So now she escapes to a time when she was free, rebellious and had her life still out in front of her.

Basically when he climbs on too of her, she thinks "this is my life now. It is safe and secure but I miss the excitement of not knowing what laid ahead. Remember when you were in high school and you would just **** in the cab of his truck? Or fingerbang at my parents dinner table?"



Probably nail on the head
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11:28a, 1/17/17
aglaohfour
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In reply to ClickClack • 11:30a, 1/17/17
AG
ClickClack said:
I would've told her that a marriage should have lust and "primal" feelings. Not every day, like you said that stuff ebbs and flows, but there are definitely days it feels primal for us. But that has been kept up through communication - what we like, meeting her emotional needs, etc.


This was my first thought. He's not meeting her emotional needs. Maybe he thinks he is, maybe he really does try to and maybe she's at fault because she's not communicating what she needs. But I'm almost positive there is something else going on besides 'just sex' problems. They'd do themselves a favor by seeing a professional therapist.
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Mort Rainey
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In reply to [removed post] • 11:30a, 1/17/17
jake2011 said:
They have 2 kids under 5. The non GB response but the truth is that 2x per week is good during that life stage. Kids will get easier and able to do more on their own and she will get more randy.
But does your wife enjoy it and act into it? That's the key here. 1-2 times a week isn't ideal but you can live with it if she seems to be loving it. It's the "can we get this over with as soon as possible" attitude that's the problem, guaranteed.
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Mort Rainey
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In reply to aglaohfour • 11:32a, 1/17/17
Agoodlittleag04 said:
ClickClack said:
I would've told her that a marriage should have lust and "primal" feelings. Not every day, like you said that stuff ebbs and flows, but there are definitely days it feels primal for us. But that has been kept up through communication - what we like, meeting her emotional needs, etc.


This was my first thought. He's not meeting her emotional needs. Maybe he thinks he is, maybe he really does try to and maybe she's at fault because she's not communicating what she needs. But I'm almost positive there is something else going on besides 'just sex' problems. They'd do themselves a favor by seeing a professional therapist.
But why would you bother seeing a therapist when there's a couple who has been married 19 years sitting right next to you??
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austinrb10
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In reply to [removed post] • 11:36a, 1/17/17
AG
The problem is that it's always been once or so per week. It didn't just start with kids.
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Ags4DaWin
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11:36a, 1/17/17
Sorry this is so long. Wish I had a better reply. The wife and I went through something similar about five years ago. That's the only reason I am chiming in. The difference between our case and this couple's is that for us the passion pre marriage was good and because of communication lapses that had accumulated over the years, it had become dysfunctional.

In this instance it sounds like the wife decided to marry the guy she viewed as more of a friend rather than someone she felt passionate about as a lover. The guy it sounds like was reaching for this relationship from the start and unrealistic regarding his expectations.

It sounds like one of two things happened:

1) she got tired of dating jerks that used her for sex or that were only about the sex and decided to date and marry a guy that she didn't have much physical attraction for but that she knew would make a long term partner. If the passion was never there then the guy deluded himself in partnering with someone who would never be able to fulfill his needs in the bedroom.
OR
2) the passion was there at first and after kids and years together something caused it to wane.

If instance 1:
On the one hand he has no business feeling cheated as it sounds like his wife was up front about how she was going to approach the relationship from the start. On the other hand everyone has the right to be in a relationship in which they feel desired. My suggestion would be for him to outline exactly what he "needs" in order to feel desired. If she loves him and by all accounts it sounds like she does, then if he communicates what he needs and they are reasonable then she should be able to fulfill those needs. If he needs her to initiate more then that is easy enough. If he has a fantasy he wants her to fulfill then he needs to communicate that.

It sounds like a lot of the dissatisfaction is because the guy here knew what sort of relationship he was getting into but deluded himself into thinking it would change. He needs to accept the fact that he was the guy she decided to settle down with after she sowed her wild oats and that from a physical perspective he is never going to have the same kind of relationship she had when she was going through her wild/****ty phase with the guy she could lust after but knew would not be a good long term partner.

Conversely she just can't through her hands up in the air and say "I don't have the same drive as you, so get used to it and live with it." She needs to accept the fact that she is not meeting her husband's needs and make more of an effort to make him feel desired and let him know that his happiness and satisfaction in the relationship and in the bedroom is a priority for her.

If he can learn to communicate his desires and she can learn that being a little ****ty for her husband is okay then they can get past this. But it all depends on 2 things:

1) communication of needs and desires so that neither one of them lets resentment fester. When someone isn't feeling fulfilled in the relationship they need to speak up and call their partner out.
2) give and take. Her husband has let her know what he needs. If she wants the relationship to work then she needs to bring more to the bedroom. He needs to recognize that her needs are not the same as his and to appreciate the expression of love when she goes the extra mile for him in the bedroom. That way when he has a need and she just is plain unable to get there he can brush it off as a rarity and be understanding.

If it is instance 2: then there is probably something more serious going on. Maybe she has some needs that are not being met emotionally. Maybe after the kids her drive never picked back up. This happens. I know of a couple where the wife had severe post partum that languished for two years and killed the couple's sex life. He eventually sacked up and told her to get help and supported her doing so. With counseling and medication her drive came back and the struggle they had those two years cemented their bond and they have never been stronger.

After reading some of your follow ups it sounds like her body chemistry may have changed after the kids. What was their sex life like before they got married and shortly after?

If she has experienced a significant drop in drive it could be medical.

Sorry for the long post. Trying to cover all the bases as your post while informative left a lot of questions unanswered. I would suggest a psychiatrist specializing in sexual dysfunction rather than a traditional marriage counselor at least to start. Her statement of:

"That was 12 years ago." Could mean it's something medical. Conversely her statement that "That was before when I thought sex meant love". Is a red flag that she married a guy she should have left in the friend zone. And she needs to learn that true love means that there is a physical aspect as well.

What was their sex life like before hey got married and shorty after the wedding? Any info on that?
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The Collective
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11:36a, 1/17/17
AG
Guy isn't getting what he needs. It will be telling when he doesn't think they need counseling though.
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Mort Rainey
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In reply to Ags4DaWin • 11:40a, 1/17/17
Ags4DaWin said:
With counseling and medication her drive came back and the struggle they had those two years cemented their bond and they have never been stronger.
Can we get some in depth details on how they've "never been stronger"? Are we talking costumes and whips or just more often?
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Ags4DaWin
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11:40a, 1/17/17
Just read ur latest follow up. Sounds like she married the guy she should have left in the friend zone.

So they have two choices: 1) he gets over resentment and adjusts expectations while She learns that love includes sex and brings more to the bedroom.
2) accept that they both made naive mistakes in getting married and change course before things go way south and they end up hating each other.
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Ags4DaWin
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In reply to Mort Rainey • 11:42a, 1/17/17
GeorgePlimpton said:
Ags4DaWin said:
Sorry this is so long. Wish I had a better reply. The wife and I went through something similar about five years ago. That's the only reason I am chiming in. The difference between our case and this couple's is that for us the passion pre marriage was good and because of communication lapses that had accumulated over the years, it had become dysfunctional.

In this instance it sounds like the wife decided to marry the guy she viewed as more of a friend rather than someone she felt passionate about as a lover. The guy it sounds like was reaching for this relationship from the start and unrealistic regarding his expectations.

It sounds like one of two things happened:

1) she got tired of dating jerks that used her for sex or that were only about the sex and decided to date and marry a guy that she didn't have much physical attraction for but that she knew would make a long term partner. If the passion was never there then the guy deluded himself in partnering with someone who would never be able to fulfill his needs in the bedroom.
OR
2) the passion was there at first and after kids and years together something caused it to wane.

If instance 1:
On the one hand he has no business feeling cheated as it sounds like his wife was up front about how she was going to approach the relationship from the start. On the other hand everyone has the right to be in a relationship in which they feel desired. My suggestion would be for him to outline exactly what he "needs" in order to feel desired. If she loves him and by all accounts it sounds like she does, then if he communicates what he needs and they are reasonable then she should be able to fulfill those needs. If he needs her to initiate more then that is easy enough. If he has a fantasy he wants her to fulfill then he needs to communicate that.

It sounds like a lot of the dissatisfaction is because the guy here knew what sort of relationship he was getting into but deluded himself into thinking it would change. He needs to accept the fact that he was the guy she decided to settle down with after she sowed her wild oats and that from a physical perspective he is never going to have the same kind of relationship she had when she was going through her wild/****ty phase with the guy she could lust after but knew would not be a good long term partner.

Conversely she just can't through her hands up in the air and say "I don't have the same drive as you, so get used to it and live with it." She needs to accept the fact that she is not meeting her husband's needs and make more of an effort to make him feel desired and let him know that his happiness and satisfaction in the relationship and in the bedroom is a priority for her.

If he can learn to communicate his desires and she can learn that being a little ****ty for her husband is okay then they can get past this. But it all depends on 2 things:

1) communication of needs and desires so that neither one of them lets resentment fester. When someone isn't feeling fulfilled in the relationship they need to speak up and call their partner out.
2) give and take. Her husband has let her know what he needs. If she wants the relationship to work then she needs to bring more to the bedroom. He needs to recognize that her needs are not the same as his and to appreciate the expression of love when she goes the extra mile for him in the bedroom. That way when he has a need and she just is plain unable to get there he can brush it off as a rarity and be understanding.

If it is instance 2: then there is probably something more serious going on. Maybe she has some needs that are not being met emotionally. Maybe after the kids her drive never picked back up. This happens. I know of a couple where the wife had severe post partum that languished for two years and killed the couple's sex life. He eventually sacked up and told her to get help and supported her doing so. With counseling and medication her drive came back and the struggle they had those two years cemented their bond and they have never been stronger.

After reading some of your follow ups it sounds like her body chemistry may have changed after the kids. What was their sex life like before they got married and shortly after?

If she has experienced a significant drop in drive it could be medical.

Sorry for the long post. Trying to cover all the bases as your post while informative left a lot of questions unanswered. I would suggest a psychiatrist specializing in sexual dysfunction rather than a traditional marriage counselor at least to start. Her statement of:

"That was 12 years ago." Could mean it's something medical. Conversely her statement that "That was before when I thought sex meant love". Is a red flag that she married a guy she should have left in the friend zone. And she needs to learn that true love means that there is a physical aspect as well.

What was their sex life like before hey got married and shorty after the wedding? Any info on that?
Can we get some in depth details on how they've "never been stronger"? Are we talking costumes and whips or just more often?


All of the above? I dunno. Not really my place. Use ur imagination and it will probably get you in the right vicinity.
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LupinusTexensis
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11:42a, 1/17/17
This church sounds amazing where they let an untrained couple counsel other couples while judging them.
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