cisgenderedAggie said:

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No, I'm asking you to make a coherent argument supported by clear evidence. What is the clear evidence that the mRNA vaccines cannot produce memory B cells?

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There is a complete lack of research on whether vaccines are generating memory cells that can provide long-lasting protection from the virus. We have circumstantial evidence - lasting immunity provided by previous infection versus shorter term vaccination generated immunity - indicating mRNA do not produce memory cells. Perhaps you can show the research where the vaccines are generating memory cells?

amercer said:

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The memory response is why vaccinated people are still protected against severe disease and death.

A boost in circulating antibodies would help with infection.

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If the first-generation monoclonal antibodies are now so useless that they're being retired, why would the first-generation vaccines be any better?

I'm waiting for us to get through the entire alphabet of variants...then go get my 2 doses + 22 boosters all at once.
Just give me a gallon of the good stuff in an IV and I'll be safe from dying.

NicosMachine said:

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amercer said:

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The memory response is why vaccinated people are still protected against severe disease and death.

A boost in circulating antibodies would help with infection.

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If the first-generation monoclonal antibodies are now so useless that they're being retired, why would the first-generation vaccines be any better?

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Because the immune system is adaptive. Even a weaker response to a memory cell sets off a cascade of events that will lead to a new response specific for the current challenge.

The vaccines give your immune system a head start. That's why even the crappy Chinese and Russian ones cut down on severe disease and death even though they didn't do much to help with infection.

cisgenderedAggie said:

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NicosMachine said:

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cisgenderedAggie said:

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No, I'm asking you to make a coherent argument supported by clear evidence. What is the clear evidence that the mRNA vaccines cannot produce memory B cells?

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There is a complete lack of research on whether vaccines are generating memory cells that can provide long-lasting protection from the virus. We have circumstantial evidence - lasting immunity provided by previous infection versus shorter term vaccination generated immunity - indicating mRNA do not produce memory cells. Perhaps you can show the research where the vaccines are generating memory cells?

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Look one post up.

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Also, I will grant that I've not seen a lot of studies specifically testing B cell memory and T cell response from the mRNA vaccines, but they aren't completely absent. Here is a search you may use to look for it.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=((B%20cell)%20AND%20(covid))%20AND%20(vaccine)&sort=

I've skimmed the first 100 or so abstracts. At least 2 papers that seem to show clear evidence that T cell immunity can be observed following the mRNA vaccines.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33296685/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34174397/

That, combined with lasting protection against severe disease and my trust that biology does actually still work after Covid, is plenty. But if you have clear evidence that vaccines cannot produce immune memory I'd love to read it. The virus evolving is not evidence of that.

My wife and I just got Moderna boosted. Do what you want.

oragator said:

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Preliminary studies say that previous infection doesn't help much against omicron.

https://www.thehealthsite.com/news/covid-reinfection-risk-5-4-times-higher-with-omicron-than-delta-cases-doubling-in-3-days-who-853006/

In fact, the first death in the US from omicron was someone previously infected, who might have thought they were now safe.

https://publichealth.harriscountytx.gov/Portals/27/Documents/HCPH%20Reports%20First%20Omicron%20Related%20Death%20sm.pdf?ver=oK77qT2qjHEIryPPhgBoog%3d%3d

People can do what they want, but it's going to be a really ugly few months if this data is right and people think they are immune because they had it before.

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From the Harris County link:

Quote:

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Harris County Public Health (HCPH) is reporting the first COVID-19 Omicron-variant associated death in the County.

The death reported this afternoon was of a man between the ages of 50-60 years old who was unvaccinated and had been infected with COVID-19 previously. The individual was at higher risk of severe complications from COVID-19 due to his unvaccinated status and had underlying health conditions.

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Associated. That doesn't mean that's what killed the individual. Also, another with "underlying health conditions."

My mom was a "COVID" patient in the hospital even though she had no symptoms and was only there after suffering a stroke from fighting with the hospital to not release my step-dad who they were trying to push out...again.

The people on the tv told him so.

Who might have thought? Is that made up?

Is what made up?