CNN doctor on Joe Rogan podcast

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CondensedFogAggie
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In reply to 01agtx • 9:48p, 10/17/21
01agtx said:
Franklins said:
CondensedFoggyAggie said:

India removed HCQ and Ivermectin from its covid protocol guidelines barely a month ago. They have not reinstated it.


So India removed ivermectin use barely a month ago and you are claiming ivermectin was clearly without benefit?? You cite a couple opinion pieces from propaganda media and somehow we are the ones spouting lies?

Like I said - Ivermectin is not hurting anyone and it appears to be helping MANY. Yet if you only listen to Fauci, CNN, and the media you would think ivermectin is only given to horses and livestock. They are ignoring the Widespread use of Ivermectin in humans over decades to push their disinformation.

And you have the nerve to say we are the ones pushing lies? Pathetic.


You are correct. India certainty didn't remove it for lack of efficacy. Uttar Pradesh, an Indian state of 210 million passed out IVM as part of their home kits starting in September 2020 and it worked so well it was adopted by the entire country in the spring of 2021.

Except their highest medical body found that in control trials, Ivermectin had no effect, which is why they removed it a month ago.

Quote:
Quote:
A study by the All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS) had earlier said the antiparasitic medicine Ivermectin did not reduce the viral load or duration of symptoms in patients with Covid-19 even at higher doses. This was found in a randomised controlled trial on 157 patients admitted with mild to moderate disease at the premier hospital during the first surge of infections between July and September last year.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/icmr-removes-ivermectin-hcq-from-revised-guidelines-on-covid-19-treatment-101632461755113.html

I can't believe the amount of people claiming to know more about Indias covid response than their highest medical associations.

Again, Ivermectin MAY turn out to be useful, no problem with people using them, but insane to say its better than the vaccines, which is what started my response.

Oh well, at least the clickbait scammers that are fooling everyone must be making a ton.
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01agtx
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9:56p, 10/17/21
AG
As far as I can tell, it's still recommended.

https://www.icmr.gov.in/pdf/covid/techdoc/COVID_HOME_CARE_English_v2.pdf
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CondensedFogAggie
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In reply to 01agtx • 10:05p, 10/17/21
01agtx said:
As far as I can tell, it's still recommended.

https://www.icmr.gov.in/pdf/covid/techdoc/COVID_HOME_CARE_English_v2.pdf


That was uploaded on May 03, 2021 and is outdated. You can see it here, its the first link and has the upload date.

https://www.icmr.gov.in/chomecare.html



Here is the previous ICMR covid protocol/algorithm with Ivermectin. Dated 5/20/2021

Ivermectin is mentioned on the left hand side, yellow box halfway down, in the 'MAY DOs' box

https://www.icmr.gov.in/pdf/covid/techdoc/COVID_Management_Algorithm_17052021.pdf



And here is the latest ICMR covid protocol/algorithm that has REMOVED Ivermectin. Dated 9/20/2021

https://www.icmr.gov.in/pdf/covid/techdoc/COVID_Management_Algorithm_23092021.pdf
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01agtx
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In reply to CondensedFogAggie • 10:12p, 10/17/21
AG
CondensedFoggyAggie said:
01agtx said:
As far as I can tell, it's still recommended.

https://www.icmr.gov.in/pdf/covid/techdoc/COVID_HOME_CARE_English_v2.pdf


That was uploaded on May 03, 2021 and is outdated. You can see it here, its the first link and has the upload date.

https://www.icmr.gov.in/chomecare.html



Here is the previous ICMR covid protocol/algorithm with Ivermectin. Dated 5/20/2021

Ivermectin is mentioned on the left hand side, yellow box halfway down, in the 'MAY DOs' box

https://www.icmr.gov.in/pdf/covid/techdoc/COVID_Management_Algorithm_17052021.pdf



And here is the latest ICMR covid protocol/algorithm that has REMOVED Ivermectin. Dated 9/20/2021

https://www.icmr.gov.in/pdf/covid/techdoc/COVID_Management_Algorithm_23092021.pdf


Are you able to tell when they added in Remdesivir?
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LGBFJB
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11:01p, 10/17/21
AG
If you take the time to watch the 2 JRE podcasts I posted, one with Alex Berenson - and the other with Dr. Pierre Kory & Brett Weinstein - the data is discussed in great detail including the flaws in data and poor protocols. The meta-analysis for ivermectin is strong as is the positive trends in Covid cases where ivermectin was implemented.

If you don't want to watch or listen I don't care. Just because India recently changed their recommendations on use of ivermectin doesn't mean it didn't work or have an impact. I guess now that Covid is under control there they can afford to make changes, but my bet is that there is a political/financial reason behind the change - not a medical driver.
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CondensedFogAggie
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In reply to 01agtx • 11:14p, 10/17/21
01agtx said:
CondensedFoggyAggie said:
01agtx said:
As far as I can tell, it's still recommended.

https://www.icmr.gov.in/pdf/covid/techdoc/COVID_HOME_CARE_English_v2.pdf


That was uploaded on May 03, 2021 and is outdated. You can see it here, its the first link and has the upload date.

https://www.icmr.gov.in/chomecare.html



Here is the previous ICMR covid protocol/algorithm with Ivermectin. Dated 5/20/2021

Ivermectin is mentioned on the left hand side, yellow box halfway down, in the 'MAY DOs' box

https://www.icmr.gov.in/pdf/covid/techdoc/COVID_Management_Algorithm_17052021.pdf



And here is the latest ICMR covid protocol/algorithm that has REMOVED Ivermectin. Dated 9/20/2021

https://www.icmr.gov.in/pdf/covid/techdoc/COVID_Management_Algorithm_23092021.pdf


Are you able to tell when they added in Remdesivir?

Nope, haven't been paying much attention to Remdesivir to be honest.
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petebaker
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2:00a, 10/18/21
https://rumble.com/vmye0y-dr.-leana-wen-interviewed-after-boston-bombing-2013.html

Dr. Leana Wen treated Boston victims, worried one would be her husband. Says she still has nightmares about the victims.
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agsalaska
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In reply to LGBFJB • 7:18a, 10/18/21
AG
Franklins said:
CondensedFoggyAggie said:

India removed HCQ and Ivermectin from its covid protocol guidelines barely a month ago. They have not reinstated it.


So India removed ivermectin use barely a month ago and you are claiming ivermectin was clearly without benefit?? You cite a couple opinion pieces from propaganda media and somehow we are the ones spouting lies?

Like I said - Ivermectin is not hurting anyone and it appears to be helping MANY. Yet if you only listen to Fauci, CNN, and the media you would think ivermectin is only given to horses and livestock. They are ignoring the Widespread use of Ivermectin in humans over decades to push their disinformation.

And you have the nerve to say we are the ones pushing lies? Pathetic.
I disagree with that.

It may not be directly hurting anyone, but the belief that is a magical cure and a good alternative for the vaccine absolutely is killing people. I know two people in the last month that believed that that are now dead. One was 46, the other 39.

Agreed that Fauci's messaging around it is criminal. Fauci has no clue how the public mind works. He is the biggest failure I have ever seen in American politics.
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LGBFJB
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In reply to agsalaska • 8:06a, 10/18/21
AG
I think we all know that nothing is a magical cure and we need an all hands/options on deck approach. There are legitimate reasons why people do not want to be vaccinated. There are real people being injured and dying from the vaccine too but the media isn't covering that fact adequately. Just as ivermectin is not a magical cure for everyone, neither is the vaccine. The difference is that the vaccine is being forced onto everyone though tyrannical mandates and coercion and Mis/Dis-information with absolutely no regard for the individual's situation. There is no regard for natural immunity as a glaring example.

Hell, Fauci was asked about natural immunity a couple weeks ago and he acted like the idea had never even occurred to him before that moment but maybe they should "think about it and have some discussion on that" but then moved right along to vax vax vax. They are NOT following the science despite all of the goal tenders on this board.

People are absolutely being harmed by the vaccine. Do you deny that fact, or are those people just collateral damage?

The problem with everything related to Covid is that as a direct result of the media and government's messaging, their suppression and silencing of discussions that don't comply with their current narrative, and their totalitarian tactics throughout - people KNOW they cannot trust what they are being told. We are 100% certain that THEY are lying to us and hiding information. We are left to our own to seek out and find information on the subject and get our information from people that we feel we can trust. When people get banned from YouTube or Twitter I now immediately think they are probably someone I want to listen to. We are living in 1984 where 2+2=5 and yesterday is just memory-holed.

This is more about politics and control than it is about public safety or our own individual health. We are letting millions illegally flood into our country without being tested or vaccinated. Our military brought hundreds of thousands of Afghan's here without screening. We've seen riots encouraged and allowed across the country while churches were closed due to Covid. What is the vax requirement at the White House, FDA, big pharma, or capital hill? There is nothing series that our "leaders" are doing with regard to covid. Masks are pointless but still required. Vaccines are treated like the miracle cure to the detriment of all other therapeutics. This is about control and nothing more.

We are living in perilous times.
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01agtx
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In reply to petebaker • 8:15a, 10/18/21
AG
petebaker said:
https://rumble.com/vmye0y-dr.-leana-wen-interviewed-after-boston-bombing-2013.html

Dr. Leana Wen treated Boston victims, worried one would be her husband. Says she still has nightmares about the victims.


That woman is a perpetual victim.
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Jabin
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9:08a, 10/18/21
nm
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94chem
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In reply to MRB10 • 11:28a, 10/18/21
NTXAg10 said:
I saw my PCP last week and his response to Ivermectin was along the lines of "It's a helpful drug for certain things and i feel confident saying that it would be safe to take if you get COVID-19. It's been around forever and we have a ton of data on it due to its use as an anti parasitic. That said, it may or may not be helpful for covid but it's not going to hurt anything if you want to give it a try."

I'm in the camp of why the hell not.
Exactly. Now do penicillin. See the difference?
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
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dude95
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7:02p, 10/18/21
AG
We're so much on sides these days - those guys are wrong because they are conservative - those guys are so wrong because they are liberal.

There will be people who don't want to discuss this...but I believe part of the FDA assessment of the vaccine was risk on taking vs risk on not taking. The vaccine has side effects. We distort the number all the time - side effects include soreness where you got the shot for a day that doesn't impede your ability to do normal tasks. Serious side effects occur - with a smaller percentage than serious side effects of covid.

CNN was wrong and deliberately deceiving about Rogan. Seems like a safe drug when prescribed. It may very well help - unless massive over dosing. It is approved by FDA - but the intended use statement it was approved for doesn't include the symptoms of covid. It's kind of like the FDA will be pissed at a company for saying aspirins will cure cancer - probably won't hurt much as long as you get other treatments, but they can't sell it for that. Technically, Dr can prescribe for that. There is enough wiggle room because Dr shouldn't be cut off from being able to practice medicine. Take it too far - Dr can loose license for saying all you need is asprin for cancer.

The FDA isn't in bed with vaccine makers - this is standard process that it's going through now . Ivermectin may get approved soon for that intended use because those claims have been proven in the scientific method they demand (and should demand). Some will take it now - I hope it is helpful. Doesn't sound damaging. Looking forward to a world with many tools to fight covid and back to normal lives (such as no arguing on message boards).

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aggierogue
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8:36p, 10/18/21
AG
CondensedFoggyAggie, why do you treat this board like your religion? Why do you spend your life on this board advocating for the vaccine and derailing every thread about alternative therapeutics? Are you a doctor? B/c my doctor prescribes Ivermectin. So do countless others. So did Spohn Hospital in Corpus Christi when several of my brother's in-laws contracted Covid. These physicians disagree with you.

You're obviously vaccinated. Why do you care so much about what others who don't want to get vaccinated think?
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CondensedFogAggie
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In reply to aggierogue • 9:54p, 10/18/21
aggierogue said:
CondensedFoggyAggie, why do you treat this board like your religion? Why do you spend your life on this board advocating for the vaccine and derailing every thread about alternative therapeutics? Are you a doctor? B/c my doctor prescribes Ivermectin. So do countless others. So did Spohn Hospital in Corpus Christi when several of my brother's in-laws contracted Covid. These physicians disagree with you.

You're obviously vaccinated. Why do you care so much about what others who don't want to get vaccinated think?

I have said multiple times I HOPE Ivermectin does work, the problem I have is the false sense of security in it leading to people not getting the vaccine.


So are you seriously asking why I'm asking for any evidence that Ivermectin, a drug that has lead to a false sense of security resulting in tens of thousands of unvaxxed Americans struggling to breathe and dying in hospitals, is an alternative to vaccines?


Everything I'm posting has numbers, official reports, reviews, and the backing of the vast majority of the medical community. While the "Ivermectin is better than vaccines" people have zero science, zero peer reviewed studies, and only anecdotes. Do they not teach how to properly vet facts and logic these days at tamu?

You're confusing who's acting like a cult member and treating this board like a religion.
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TheMasterplan
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In reply to snowdog90 • 12:57a, 10/19/21
snowdog90 said:
TheMasterplan said:
Fair. Snowdog is being ridiculous with his claims on that.




I make no claims that have not been made by hundreds of doctors and nurses. I don't just blindly push ivermectin for no reason. I've read and watched TONS of testimonials by those doctors and nurses and patients. A doctor testified last year before Congress that this didn't have to be a pandemic. Ivermectin was the cure. His testimony, a DOCTOR'S testimony, was banned from youtube and twitter.

Instead of the media being happy that Joe Rogan got better almost immediately with therapeutics, and showing some curiosity about why his therapeutics worked so well, they immediately shamed him for taking "horse de-wormer".
I'm 100% in agreement with you on this one.

The misinformation about Joe Rogan taking horse dewormer was a new low for the mainstream media and Joe Rogan did a great job on pivoting to another point about "If they're being dishonest about this then what else are they being dishonest about?"

I actually am not convinced about ivermectin and would need to see some hard evidence.

I got the vaccine but agree with a lot of Joe Rogan's points about people not taking the vaccine, natural immunity and kids susceptibility.
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snowdog90
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In reply to TheMasterplan • 2:03a, 10/19/21
TheMasterplan said:
snowdog90 said:
TheMasterplan said:
Fair. Snowdog is being ridiculous with his claims on that.




I make no claims that have not been made by hundreds of doctors and nurses. I don't just blindly push ivermectin for no reason. I've read and watched TONS of testimonials by those doctors and nurses and patients. A doctor testified last year before Congress that this didn't have to be a pandemic. Ivermectin was the cure. His testimony, a DOCTOR'S testimony, was banned from youtube and twitter.

Instead of the media being happy that Joe Rogan got better almost immediately with therapeutics, and showing some curiosity about why his therapeutics worked so well, they immediately shamed him for taking "horse de-wormer".
I'm 100% in agreement with you on this one.

The misinformation about Joe Rogan taking horse dewormer was a new low for the mainstream media and Joe Rogan did a great job on pivoting to another point about "If they're being dishonest about this then what else are they being dishonest about?"

I actually am not convinced about ivermectin and would need to see some hard evidence.

I got the vaccine but agree with a lot of Joe Rogan's points about people not taking the vaccine, natural immunity and kids susceptibility.


https://covid19criticalcare.com/

So much information about ivermectin in this site. Doctors risking their licenses and careers prescribing ivermectin. Why would they do this if it didn't work.

Where are all the lawsuits against the doctors who prescribe ivermectin and their patient died? I haven't heard of a single one, because ivermectin works against covid.

CNN and all the other idiots that call ivermectin "horse de-wormer" are camcer. They literally don't care if it works, they have a different agenda from actually saving lives.
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snowdog90
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In reply to CondensedFogAggie • 7:25a, 10/19/21
CondensedFoggyAggie said:
snowdog90 said:
CondensedFoggyAggie said:
aggierogue said:
CondensedFoggyAggie, why do you treat this board like your religion? Why do you spend your life on this board advocating for the vaccine and derailing every thread about alternative therapeutics? Are you a doctor? B/c my doctor prescribes Ivermectin. So do countless others. So did Spohn Hospital in Corpus Christi when several of my brother's in-laws contracted Covid. These physicians disagree with you.

You're obviously vaccinated. Why do you care so much about what others who don't want to get vaccinated think?

I have said multiple times I HOPE Ivermectin does work, the problem I have is the false sense of security in it leading to people not getting the vaccine.


So are you seriously asking why I'm asking for any evidence that Ivermectin, a drug that has lead to a false sense of security resulting in tens of thousands of unvaxxed Americans struggling to breathe and dying in hospitals, is an alternative to vaccines?


Everything I'm posting has numbers, official reports, reviews, and the backing of the vast majority of the medical community. While the "Ivermectin is better than vaccines" people have zero science, zero peer reviewed studies, and only anecdotes. Do they not teach how to properly vet facts and logic these days at tamu?

You're confusing who's acting like a cult member and treating this board like a religion.


Delusional. You offer ipinion pieces. You ignore all the data that's provided showing ivermectin works. You ignore all the texags posters who beat covid in 2 days using ivermectin prescribed by a doctor. You offer nothing but misleading, false information about "sheep medicine". You're as bad as CNN.

Buddy, this is the 10th time you've refused to provide any peer reviewed papers with any kind of statistics about Ivermectin and covid. Lets just perm ignore each other to save ours and the mods times

Have a great one!


Here's a double blind study that shows Ivermectin kicks ass.

https://m.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-scientist-says-covid-19-could-be-treated-for-under-1day-675612

Feel free to ignore while you "hope Ivermectin works".

Newsflash, it does work. Find me a lawsuit suing a doctor for killing someone prescribing ivermectin. They don't exist, yet millions have used ivermectin to beat covid.
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Windy City Ag
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In reply to snowdog90 • 9:38a, 10/19/21
AG
Quote:
Here's a double blind study that shows Ivermectin kicks ass.
I know that study was criticized by several health care researchers and has generally been ignored at this point. Having worked in large-scale data projects, I do agree that you can't call the study truly randomized and double blind when the researchers are actively massaging the study population after the trial began.

They should have noted this discrepancy out of the gates while still exploring the hypothesis rather than running to the media and then having to defend their breach of protocol down the line.

https://www.newsweek.com/ivermectin-covid-treatment-study-flawed-scientists-1627109

Quote:
Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz, a chronic disease researcher and science journalist, criticized the study in a series of Twitter posts on Tuesday.

He said that there is a discrepancy between the final study and what the study authors said they would do in pre-registration. The study's pre-registration can be found here.

Meyerowitz-Katz said the discrepancy involves people who were excluded from the study based on what is known as the patients' CT valuesimply, a measure of how much virus someone has in their system.

The study states that COVID patients with a CT value of over 35 in the first two tests were excluded, despite this not being included in the study's initial exclusion criteria. "It appears that the authors have added an extra exclusion criteria that is applied after randomization and treatment," Meyerowitz-Kats tweeted. "If you add these people back in, the results of the study entirely lose their significance," he added.

Dr. David Boulware is professor of medicine in the Division of Infectious Diseases and International Medicine at the University of Minnesota with formal training in clinical trials. He told Newsweek the criticisms of the study were "spot on" and that the changes "seem very much like cherry-picking."
"While post-hoc changes can be made, they need to be explained in great detail," he said. "And preferably before looking at the group level data."

Dr. Stephen Griffin is chair of the virus division, microbiology society and academic lead for laboratories at the Leeds Institute of Medical Research. He said Meyerowitz-Katz' criticism "makes perfect sense," and added: "You can't add extra exclusion criteria after randomizing.

Dr. Simon Maxwell of the Clinical Pharmacology Unit at the University of Edinburgh said the study is "interesting but flawed" due to the change in protocol, and pointed to several large-scale ivermectin trials currently underway. "Let's all await the clinical trials before advocating mass deployment," he told Newsweek.
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Windy City Ag
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In reply to snowdog90 • 9:42a, 10/19/21
AG
Quote:
Newsflash, it does work. Find me a lawsuit suing a doctor for killing someone prescribing ivermectin. They don't exist, yet millions have used ivermectin to beat covid.
So lawsuits showing Ivermectin has killed you is probably not the best criteria to prove something does or does not show efficacy in treatment of a disease.

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snowdog90
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In reply to Windy City Ag • 10:09a, 10/19/21
Windy City Ag said:
Quote:
Newsflash, it does work. Find me a lawsuit suing a doctor for killing someone prescribing ivermectin. They don't exist, yet millions have used ivermectin to beat covid.
So lawsuits showing Ivermectin has killed you is probably not the best criteria to prove something does or does not show efficacy in treatment of a disease.



Probably not, that's why i put the FLCCC website that shows that millions have been treated successfully with ivermectin, many of them are texags posters. Of those millions, I haven't heard of a single lawsuit over wrongfully treating a patient with ivermectin. If it was so dangerous and ineffective, there would be at least one lawsuit.
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Petrino1
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In reply to snowdog90 • 10:55a, 10/19/21
snowdog90 said:
Windy City Ag said:
Quote:
Newsflash, it does work. Find me a lawsuit suing a doctor for killing someone prescribing ivermectin. They don't exist, yet millions have used ivermectin to beat covid.
So lawsuits showing Ivermectin has killed you is probably not the best criteria to prove something does or does not show efficacy in treatment of a disease.



Probably not, that's why i put the FLCCC website that shows that millions have been treated successfully with ivermectin, many of them are texags posters. Of those millions, I haven't heard of a single lawsuit over wrongfully treating a patient with ivermectin. If it was so dangerous and ineffective, there would be at least one lawsuit.
The crazy thing is Ibuprofen causes 16,000 deaths per year and 100,000 hospitalizations, but every doctor will tell you its a safe drug to take. I think I read somewhere that Ivermectin has only caused 20 deaths in 40 years, yet doctors and the media treat it like its rat poison if you take it.
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Petrino1
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11:24a, 10/19/21
Its crazy, I responded on Reddit about my negative experiences with the vaccine and positive experiences with ivermectin. I also advised those with severe long haul symptoms not to get the vaccine because it appears to make the symptoms worse.

You would have thought I killed someones mom. I got attacked viciously by several posters calling me an anti vaxxer and anti science. They all said I should be banned for promoting false truths. Not sure how I can be an anti vaxxer since Im fully vaccinated, but oh well lol.

These pro vaxxers are truly nuts, its like a cult to them. How dare we ever say anything negative about the vaccines that goes against their narrative! Vaccines and Ivermectin can both work, not sure why it has to be one or the other with most people. I took the vaccine, it messed me up even worse, and ivermectin made me feel better. Not sure why thats such a bad thing to say to these pro vaxxers.
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snowdog90
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In reply to Petrino1 • 11:58a, 10/19/21
ea1060 said:
Its crazy, I responded on Reddit about my negative experiences with the vaccine and positive experiences with ivermectin. I also advised those with severe long haul symptoms not to get the vaccine because it appears to make the symptoms worse.

You would have thought I killed someones mom. I got attacked viciously by several posters calling me an anti vaxxer and anti science. They all said I should be banned for promoting false truths. Not sure how I can be an anti vaxxer since Im fully vaccinated, but oh well lol.

These pro vaxxers are truly nuts, its like a cult to them. How dare we ever say anything negative about the vaccines that goes against their narrative! Vaccines and Ivermectin can both work, not sure why it has to be one or the other with most people. I took the vaccine, it messed me up even worse, and ivermectin made me feel better. Not sure why thats such a bad thing to say to these pro vaxxers.


Yep, the world is insane. You have firsthand knowledge and they ignore your experience and call you names. I hope you're feeling well, let's keep fighting the good fight.
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Windy City Ag
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In reply to Petrino1 • 12:16p, 10/19/21
AG
Quote:
The crazy thing is Ibuprofen causes 16,000 deaths per year and 100,000 hospitalizations, but every doctor will tell you its a safe drug to take. I think I read somewhere that Ivermectin has only caused 20 deaths in 40 years, yet doctors and the media treat it like its rat poison if you take it.
I know that Ibuprofen figure is suspect and really old.

https://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/treatments/pharmacological/opioids/ask-expert-do-nsaids-cause-more-deaths-opioids

Quote:
Mortality reported with NSAID use is generally linked to NSAID-associated GI bleeding, and the reported incidence is quite variable. Much of the literature reports 16,500 deaths annually as a result of NSAID-induced GI bleeding. However, it is important to put this number into perspective. This estimate was published in a 1999 observational study evaluating data from the Arthritis, Rheumatism, and Aging Medical Information System (ARAMIS).5 The database captured 19 NSAID-related GI bleeding deaths; the authors then extrapolated this number to the overall US population with arthritis. The 16,500 deaths has been considered overestimated or inaccurate because it was based on a small number of actual deaths and extrapolated inappropriately.6,7 A much smaller number was reported by Tarone and colleagues.7 They reported 3,200 deaths annually as a result of NSAID-induced GI bleeding based on US mortality data reported in the 1990s.

In both cases . . . NSAIDs and Ivermectin . . . . .overconsumption is the issue. I know there have been several suspected Ivermectin related deaths in New Mexico and the poison control center statistics do show a big jump in Ivermectin related calls

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/04/1034217306/ivermectin-overdose-exposure-cases-poison-control-centers

Quote:
The NPDS says 1,143 ivermectin exposure cases were reported between Jan. 1 and Aug. 31. That marks an increase of 163% over the same period last year.

In Mississippi, which has one of the lowest rates of vaccination against the coronavirus, the state Department of Health issued an alert about the surge in calls to poison control in August. The department said that at least 70% of recent calls to the state poison control center were related to people who ingested a version of the drug meant for livestock.

Minnesota's Poison Control System is dealing with the same problem. According to the department, only one ivermectin exposure case was reported in July, but in August, the figure jumped to nine. Kentucky has seen similar increases. Thirteen misuse calls have been reported this year, Ashley Webb, director of the Kentucky Poison Control Center, told the Louisville Courier-Journal.

"Of the calls, 75% were from people who bought ivermectin from a feed store or farm supply store and treated themselves with the animal product," Webb said. The other 25% were people who had a prescription, she added.
So to say there is literally no downside is just wrong but this goes for caffeine and all sorts of other things . . . . safe in appropriate quantities that can be processed by your body.

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Petrino1
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In reply to Windy City Ag • 12:26p, 10/19/21
Windy City Ag said:
Quote:
The crazy thing is Ibuprofen causes 16,000 deaths per year and 100,000 hospitalizations, but every doctor will tell you its a safe drug to take. I think I read somewhere that Ivermectin has only caused 20 deaths in 40 years, yet doctors and the media treat it like its rat poison if you take it.
I know that Ibuprofen figure is suspect and really old.

https://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/treatments/pharmacological/opioids/ask-expert-do-nsaids-cause-more-deaths-opioids

Quote:
Mortality reported with NSAID use is generally linked to NSAID-associated GI bleeding, and the reported incidence is quite variable. Much of the literature reports 16,500 deaths annually as a result of NSAID-induced GI bleeding. However, it is important to put this number into perspective. This estimate was published in a 1999 observational study evaluating data from the Arthritis, Rheumatism, and Aging Medical Information System (ARAMIS).5 The database captured 19 NSAID-related GI bleeding deaths; the authors then extrapolated this number to the overall US population with arthritis. The 16,500 deaths has been considered overestimated or inaccurate because it was based on a small number of actual deaths and extrapolated inappropriately.6,7 A much smaller number was reported by Tarone and colleagues.7 They reported 3,200 deaths annually as a result of NSAID-induced GI bleeding based on US mortality data reported in the 1990s.

In both cases . . . NSAIDs and Ivermectin . . . . .overconsumption is the issue. I know there have been several suspected Ivermectin related deaths in New Mexico and the poison control center statistics do show a big jump in Ivermectin related calls

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/04/1034217306/ivermectin-overdose-exposure-cases-poison-control-centers

Quote:
The NPDS says 1,143 ivermectin exposure cases were reported between Jan. 1 and Aug. 31. That marks an increase of 163% over the same period last year.

In Mississippi, which has one of the lowest rates of vaccination against the coronavirus, the state Department of Health issued an alert about the surge in calls to poison control in August. The department said that at least 70% of recent calls to the state poison control center were related to people who ingested a version of the drug meant for livestock.

Minnesota's Poison Control System is dealing with the same problem. According to the department, only one ivermectin exposure case was reported in July, but in August, the figure jumped to nine. Kentucky has seen similar increases. Thirteen misuse calls have been reported this year, Ashley Webb, director of the Kentucky Poison Control Center, told the Louisville Courier-Journal.

"Of the calls, 75% were from people who bought ivermectin from a feed store or farm supply store and treated themselves with the animal product," Webb said. The other 25% were people who had a prescription, she added.
So to say there is literally no downside is just wrong but this goes for caffeine and all sorts of other things . . . . safe in appropriate quantities that can be processed by your body.

But isnt that the same for ivermectin? Overconsumption is causing the hospitalizations? Regardless, thousands of people die every year from Ibuprofen.
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Windy City Ag
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In reply to Petrino1 • 1:41p, 10/19/21
AG
Quote:
But isnt that the same for ivermectin? Overconsumption is causing the hospitalizations? Regardless, thousands of people die every year from Ibuprofen.
Yes . . .I stated as much. I think the various safety warnings revolve around the chance for folks to self-medicate incorrectly and dangerously.

The efficacy is the big debate in my mind. There seems to be enough of an anecdotal set of observations to do real research but the claim that it has "helped millions" is pretty dubious given all the other factors in lessening the severity of COVID that were working concurrently.

I know the Oxford PRINCIPLE Trial is hoped to be the first real, clean look conducted in a respectable setting. The other few studies have been touted have ranged from the discredited Israeli study cited above to the Egyptian study that turned out to rely on fabricated data and wholesale plagiarism in certain cases.

There is so much misinformation spewed about this and HCQ and other supposed treatments that the various regulatory agencies are just doing there job in cutting through that and making sure real analysis is done.




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In reply to snowdog90 • 3:33p, 10/19/21
AG
snowdog90 said:
ea1060 said:
Its crazy, I responded on Reddit about my negative experiences with the vaccine and positive experiences with ivermectin. I also advised those with severe long haul symptoms not to get the vaccine because it appears to make the symptoms worse.

You would have thought I killed someones mom. I got attacked viciously by several posters calling me an anti vaxxer and anti science. They all said I should be banned for promoting false truths. Not sure how I can be an anti vaxxer since Im fully vaccinated, but oh well lol.

These pro vaxxers are truly nuts, its like a cult to them. How dare we ever say anything negative about the vaccines that goes against their narrative! Vaccines and Ivermectin can both work, not sure why it has to be one or the other with most people. I took the vaccine, it messed me up even worse, and ivermectin made me feel better. Not sure why thats such a bad thing to say to these pro vaxxers.


Yep, the world is insane. You have firsthand knowledge and they ignore your experience and call you names. I hope you're feeling well, let's keep fighting the good fight.
To be fair, you've done the exact same thing.

Quote:

Quote:
I know four people who took Ivermectin within the last 6 weeks and ended up in the hospital. One of them died. Two are still on oxygen. The fourth can't walk the stairs in his house and is mourning the loss of his 53yo wife. They all thought they didn't need the vaccine because "Ivermectin works."

I don't believe you and your anecdotes.

Instead, i choose to believe these doctors who are on the front lines fighting covid and have nothing to gain from lying, unlike Big Pharma who is making billions from the "vaccines".

https://covid19criticalcare.com/

Tons of info in there, tons of evidence that covid is very curable without any unproven, less-than-a-year-old vaccine.
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snowdog90
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4:52p, 10/19/21
Ea's experience is firsthand and she gives detailed accounts of everything. Your experience is secondhand and you didn't give any details other than you know 4 people who took ivermectin and died. I don't know if they took it, when they took it - if you don't take it early enough, it won't work.

Totally different.
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htxag09
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In reply to snowdog90 • 4:58p, 10/19/21
AG
It wasn't my experience so I can't speak for it. Just quoting your interaction with another poster. Also, multiple posters on this very board have detailed their own personal experiences with COVID, taking Ivermectin, and still ending up in a hospital.

Both sides do this, they dismiss anything they don't personally agree with as anecdotal, one off, lies on an anonymous message board, etc. I guess both sides just happen to think they're above it and only the other side does it as well.....
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Petrino1
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In reply to snowdog90 • 5:29p, 10/19/21
snowdog90 said:
Ea's experience is firsthand and she gives detailed accounts of everything. Your experience is secondhand and you didn't give any details other than you know 4 people who took ivermectin and died. I don't know if they took it, when they took it - if you don't take it early enough, it won't work.

Totally different.
Im a he
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Petrino1
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In reply to htxag09 • 5:33p, 10/19/21
htxag09 said:
It wasn't my experience so I can't speak for it. Just quoting your interaction with another poster. Also, multiple posters on this very board have detailed their own personal experiences with COVID, taking Ivermectin, and still ending up in a hospital.

Both sides do this, they dismiss anything they don't personally agree with as anecdotal, one off, lies on an anonymous message board, etc. I guess both sides just happen to think they're above it and only the other side does it as well.....
They didnt end up in the hospital because they took Ivermectin. That is not what caused them to go to the hospital and I would bet money that the poster saying he knows 4 people that died from ivermectin is not being 100% truthful. Ivermectin isnt 100% guaranteed just like the vaccine. The difference is Ivermectin is extremely safe and has little to no side effects, the vaccine on the other hand....
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snowdog90
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In reply to Petrino1 • 6:11p, 10/19/21
ea1060 said:
snowdog90 said:
Ea's experience is firsthand and she gives detailed accounts of everything. Your experience is secondhand and you didn't give any details other than you know 4 people who took ivermectin and died. I don't know if they took it, when they took it - if you don't take it early enough, it won't work.

Totally different.
Im a he


Sorry, i knew that.
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snowdog90
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In reply to htxag09 • 6:33p, 10/19/21
htxag09 said:
It wasn't my experience so I can't speak for it. Just quoting your interaction with another poster. Also, multiple posters on this very board have detailed their own personal experiences with COVID, taking Ivermectin, and still ending up in a hospital.

Both sides do this, they dismiss anything they don't personally agree with as anecdotal, one off, lies on an anonymous message board, etc. I guess both sides just happen to think they're above it and only the other side does it as well.....


It was a poster who said he had 4 unvaxed loved ones that died of covid and all took ivermectin. No details other than that. Ea has firsthand experience with covid, longhaul covid, a bad vaccine reaction and a good ivermectin experience. Nothing is 100%. Even the great ivermectin studies on the website below aren't 100%, but there are mountains of data showing that ivermectin works.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/
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htxag09
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6:49p, 10/19/21
AG
Lol. Goalposts effectively moved. You said "You have firsthand knowledge and they ignore your experience." Then proceed to call the world crazy. I point out how you ignored someone else's experience. Sure, you can say it's secondhand, whatever. Fact is you ignored their experience and believe someone else on an anonymous message board.

I then point out multiple posters left detailed, day by day experiences, including when they took ivermectin and when they were admitted to the hospital and for how long. Your replies are then 1) ivermectin didn't put them in the hospital and 2) data shows it works.

1) I never said it did. I know it didn't. I'm pointing out first hand experiences of it not helping.

2) i agree data is more important. You're the one who went on about people ignoring first hand experiences of ivermectin helping and how that makes the world crazy. Wouldn't the same apply to firsthand experiences when ivermectin obviously didn't help people? I mean it's easier to prove it didn't help in these cases.

Again, this is the specific wording you provided that I bolded in the quote.
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