I would like to see you defend this stance.

Risk is basically calculated as (the impact of an adverse event)/(likelihood of that adverse event occurrencing.)

So we can objectively compare the two scenarios you are describing if can you provide me with four values.

How likely 5yo is to get injured from the vaccine and how severely injured that 5 yr old will be from the vaccine.

And the same values for not taking the vaccine.
Let's even assume that the vaccine is only 50% effective.
Please cite your sources for your values.

Moronic take. Vaccine has basically no risk. COVID-19 has a significantly higher risk for kids than the vaccine (though low overall). Reflect on that for a bit before posting next time.

My niece got her vaccinations wiped out by chemo for ALL. It drives her family crazy knowing how many anti-vaxxers are out there - I'm talking about MMR, TDaP, etc. I guess she'll get to redo those immunizations at some point, and I'm sure Covid will be one of them. But for COVID, herd immunity seems unlikely. Looks like the vaccines work better than flu shots, at least...for now.

Duncan Idaho said:

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I would like to see you defend this stance.

Risk is basically calculated as (the impact of an adverse event)/(likelihood of that adverse event occurrencing.)

So we can objectively compare the two scenarios you are describing if can you provide me with four values.

How likely 5yo is to get injured from the vaccine and how severely injured that 5 yr old will be from the vaccine.

And the same values for not taking the vaccine.
Let's even assume that the vaccine is only 50% effective.
Please cite your sources for your values.

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i dont give two ****s about this angle, those kids arent at any risk, something like 99.9999 that something happens to a kid, they are more likely to die in a car wreck going to school each morning, should the United States provides tanks to every family so that they can safely drive their kid to school in a much safer tank...man the common since on this one has gone out the window

even better, should the government give each family enough money to build a concrete dome over their house so no lighting strikes their kid? because their child is more likely to get struck by lightning than die of covid

we have lost any common sense on some of this

most parents are not going to do this and I will support them 100%, i dont have young children but if I did they would never get this

my sister has young children in school, she said NOT ONE and I mean NOT ONE of the parents in her 3 kids classes in San Antonio will give their child a vaccine .... thats all I need to know to tell where this is going, it isnt getting off home plate

Boomer... what an idiot

i cant read your post your Perma'ed

gunan01 said:

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Aggie_Boomin 21 said:

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Odd thing to celebrate…

Doesn't mean you have to be upset about it either, but just really strange to get that much glee out of this.

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it's an odd thing to celebrate that kids can get vaccinated? Ok…..

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With something that's not a vaccine? Yes. Very odd.

It's pretty simple. 5 year olds have miniscule risk of dying from covid. They don't need a ****ing vaccine.

Duncan Idaho said:

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Ok boomer.

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Resorting to ageism as a forum comeback. How telling…

gunan01 said:

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Moronic take. Vaccine has basically no risk. COVID-19 has a significantly higher risk for kids than the vaccine (though low overall). Reflect on that for a bit before posting next time.

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BS. The risk of myocarditis and MIS-C both the vaccine is higher than the risk from covid in kids this age. It's been demonstrated. The data is clear and has been posted repeatedly, the vaccines are unnecessary for kids this age unless they're in the tiny minority with serious issues.

Don't take my word though, ask @Kid Doc on here. He's been all over this.

West Point Aggie said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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Ok boomer.

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Resorting to ageism as a forum comeback. How telling…

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yep.. hes probably in moms basement vaping and getting ready to skip classes tmrw

TarponChaser said:

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gunan01 said:

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Moronic take. Vaccine has basically no risk. COVID-19 has a significantly higher risk for kids than the vaccine (though low overall). Reflect on that for a bit before posting next time.

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BS. The risk of myocarditis and MIS-C both the vaccine is higher than the risk from covid in kids this age. It's been demonstrated. The data is clear and has been posted repeatedly, the vaccines are unnecessary for kids this age unless they're in the tiny minority with serious issues.

Don't take my word though, ask @Kid Doc on here. He's been all over this.

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MIS-C is a risk of COVID, not the vaccine. My friend's 6th grader was just released from Texas Children's, having fallen ill with MIS-C several weeks after getting COVID. The average age of the 5000+ children who have gotten MIS-C is 9 years old. MIS-C makes a case FOR vaccination, not against it.

TarponChaser said:

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gunan01 said:

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Moronic take. Vaccine has basically no risk. COVID-19 has a significantly higher risk for kids than the vaccine (though low overall). Reflect on that for a bit before posting next time.

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BS. The risk of myocarditis and MIS-C both the vaccine is higher than the risk from covid in kids this age. It's been demonstrated. The data is clear and has been posted repeatedly, the vaccines are unnecessary for kids this age unless they're in the tiny minority with serious issues.

Don't take my word though, ask @Kid Doc on here. He's been all over this.

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This is completely false. You don't get to just make up things and present them as facts on this board without getting called out. This isn't Forum 16. The risk of myocarditis is low with both wild-type COVID-19 infection and from the Pfizer vaccine in adolescents. However, the risk with the vaccine is LESS than the risk with wild-type COVID-19 infection. This data has already been presented on this very thread.

This is the myopreicarditis data on children from the CDC. Not even including the youngest ages.


https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-08-30/03-COVID-Su-508.pdf

fightingfarmer09 said:

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This is the myopreicarditis data on children from the CDC. Not even including the youngest ages.


https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-08-30/03-COVID-Su-508.pdf

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who cares about these vaccine injuries for kids, the kids are more likely to die in a car wreck driving to school each morning or they are more at risk of getting struck by lightning then dying from covid.. like I said, the government needs to give each family a tank or armored fighting vehicle so that they can drive them to school in these much much much safer vehicles vs a regular old super unsafe vehicle called the car. they are more likely to die of the flu than covid..

I'd like to know what counts as anti-vaxx when discussing the Pfizer trial study structure and results and the ethical (at least in pre-pandemic terms) recommendations that could be made based on them

gunan01 said:

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How do you feel about vaccines for varicella, influenza, Prevnar, MMR? The chance of "dying" for a 5yo from any of those diseases is also "miniscule".

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This analogy is stupid. Influenza is MUCH more dangeroud to 5 year olds than covid. I know little about the other diseases, but if 5 year olds have a 99.999% chance of survival without taking an unproven (long-term) brand new vaccine, I'd say they definitely don't need that vaccine.

Rev03 said:

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Anyway, I have a daughter who is halfway between 10-11, so I feel like she's old enough where getting the vaccine would be a good idea, because I think there is the possibility that with cases going down, there is a chance that she won't be exposed to covid until perhaps later on, and the older she gets, the higher her risk becomes. So I don't fear the idea of her getting exposed to covid now with the lower pediatric dose so that when she is exposed again when she's older, her immune system will better know what to do. It also helps that she is a girl and the myocarditis risk has not been seen in girls so far.

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Or, you could wait to let her decide if she should vaccinate when she's an adult. Her risks are minimal, even at 30 years old, and the vax appears to lose much of its efficacy 6 months after taking it. A vax at this point and her age will do her almost no good at such point as she reaches an age with any noticeable risk.

cone said:

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I'd like to know what counts as anti-vaxx when discussing the Pfizer trial study structure and results and the ethical (at least in pre-pandemic terms) recommendations that could be made based on them

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There is no honest use of the term "anti-vaxx" anymore, just another way to score internet points or blue stars on F84.

Anything short of giving anyone and everyone all the vaccines simply because they exist earns you the label at this point.

J_Daddy05 said:

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cone said:

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I'd like to know what counts as anti-vaxx when discussing the Pfizer trial study structure and results and the ethical (at least in pre-pandemic terms) recommendations that could be made based on them

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There is no honest use of the term "anti-vaxx" anymore, just another way to score internet points or blue stars on F84.

Anything short of giving anyone and everyone all the vaccines simply because they exist earns you the label at this point.

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I've been called anti-vaxx on this board for years for questioning the CDC schedule, big pharma liability protections, and school mandated vaccines like chicken pox, MMR, etc. Its funny to see how covid has realigned and/or added weight to those previous arguments.

Edit: not this board but f16, lost track of where I was

tysker said:

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J_Daddy05 said:

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cone said:

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I'd like to know what counts as anti-vaxx when discussing the Pfizer trial study structure and results and the ethical (at least in pre-pandemic terms) recommendations that could be made based on them

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There is no honest use of the term "anti-vaxx" anymore, just another way to score internet points or blue stars on F84.

Anything short of giving anyone and everyone all the vaccines simply because they exist earns you the label at this point.

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I've been called anti-vaxx on this board for years for questioning the CDC schedule, big pharma liability protections, and school mandated vaccines like chicken pox, MMR, etc. Its funny to see how covid has realigned and/or added weight to those previous arguments.

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Im with you on this. What I do find funny are people that will call the IRS, FBI, CIA, etc corrupt but stop short of the CDC and FDA. Hint: They're ALL corrupt.

Scott Gottlieb, MD went from being the FDA Commissioner to Pfizer’s board of directors. pic.twitter.com/1B1GQIh2a4

— Ben Owen 🌸 (@hrkbenowen) October 7, 2021

"Current evidence does not…appear to show a need for boosting in the general population"

FDA's top two vaccine officials, Philip Krause and Marion Gruber. Both submitted resignations two weeks ago, reportedly over opposition to Biden ordering boosters.https://t.co/scKW98HPAg pic.twitter.com/6CE9VD5MWn

— Phil Kerpen (@kerpen) September 13, 2021

I think it is FDA director of vaccine and deputy director resigned or submitted resignation bc their scientific studies were being overruled from more powerful people
Right now medical and FDA and big pharmacy is in this conflict of interest situation for giant business projects
You know in 2008 financial crisis the SEC and Wall Street had the same head people who worked in private and government.
Like head of bank will transfer to treasury and Sec and vice versa protecting their business system

I hate how I see arguments on this thread that compare the risks of one dose of the vaccine to the risk of Covid, as if getting your kid vaccinated means they will never get Covid. It is very clear that this vaccine doesn't do a good job of stopping you from getting Covid and whatever positive effects it does have seem to fall off dramatically in less than a year.

What we really should be comparing is the risk of your kid getting the sniffles and having the top of the line natural immunity that can last for years and will get boosted by future Covid exposures or getting the Covid vaccine plus endless boosters every 6 to 9 months for the rest of their life. I know there is a chance that after four or five boosters it won't wear off but we don't know that at this point.