planoaggie123 said:$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$01agtx said:
The is no emergency in 5-12 year olds. This will do absolutely zero for adults. Why in the world would this get an EUA?
Great. When every country follows a two dose regimen for those under 30 we can talk about it being safe. To date, Sweden has shown to be the best at all of this and they are not allowing two doses for those under 18.gunan01 said:
So basically almost no risk of myocarditis with the vaccine, and a much higher risk of myocarditis with COVID-19 infection?
And keep in mind this Pfizer dose is 1/3 of the adult dose.
link?Quote:
So basically almost no risk of myocarditis with the vaccine, and a much higher risk of myocarditis with COVID-19 infection?
Quote:
Pfizer's press release did not include any data on the extent to which the vaccine reduced the chances that children would become sick. Gruber said that there were not enough cases of illness to tell. But outside experts said it was reasonable to assume that similar levels of antibodies would mean similar protection from disease.
John Moore, a professor of microbiology and immunology at Weill Cornell Medical College, emphasized that the FDA will be able to analyze both safety and efficacy data from the vaccine. "The bigger dimension is what they're going to have available for safety assessments because of course that's going to matter," Moore said.
One worry could be cases of myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart, that have been seen, albeit rarely, in adults. These have occurred only once in every tens or hundreds of thousands of vaccine administrations. But no clinical trial is going to be big enough to give an accurate study of such a rare risk.
"It appears that children in the five to 11 year old age group are the least likely to have severe outcomes of Covid," said Neuzil, citing recent data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "So not that it's not important and not that it's not a disease worth preventing, but if your severe outcomes are lower, then you're going to have a higher bar for the vaccine performance. You're going to want to be very careful about safety issues."
4500 is not a large study for this age group. Considering the risk of bad outcome from Covid in this age group, they would need to enroll at least 4 million children to adequately determine risk-benefit efficacy.
— PLC (@Humble_Analysis) June 8, 2021
This study is 80,000% underpowered.https://t.co/rKX0I3udtv
in my opinionQuote:
Why do we fail to evaluate proper risk here?
gunan01 said:
Yes the tin foil hats are strong with you guys.
It will be endemic long before that.planoaggie123 said:
I am chatting to a coworker right now....he is adamant all kids get vaccinated...he has no kids....the belief is the pandemic doesnt end until we get over 80% vaccinated including kids....
gunan01 said:
Or pass it on to an adult?
bay fan said:
I agree. I have good friends where the mom is actually a doctor and she hasn't worked through the pandemic as she is severely auto immune compromised. This development will allow their kids who have had to curtail activities to avoid bringing infection home to resume a more normal life. For some, this is terrific news.
Now also factor in the odds of catching COVID to that COVID myocarditis number, because not everyone catches it.gunan01 said:
Seems like it is you who isn't arguing in good faith. You said 1/5000 risk for myocarditis with the vaccine (0.02%). I have no idea where you got that number but let's go with it.
With COVID-19 infection, the CDC says: During March 2020January 2021, the risk for myocarditis was 0.146% among patients with COVID-19 and 0.009% among patients without COVID-19. Among patients with COVID-19, the risk for myocarditis was higher among males (0.187%) than among females (0.109%) and was highest among adults aged 75 years (0.238%), 6574 years (0.186%), and 5064 years (0.155%) and among children aged <16 years (0.133%).
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm
To suggest the risk of myocarditis with the COVID-19 vaccine is somehow equal or greater than with wild-type COVID-19 infection is just flat wrong. Your own number of 1/5000 (suggests that you have a 6x greater risk of getting myocarditis with wild-type COVID-19 (0.133%) than the vaccine (0.02%). Wow.
me neitherQuote:
You said 1/5000 risk for myocarditis with the vaccine (0.02%). I have no idea where you got that number but let's go with it.
actually it is.gunan01 said:
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Fear runs your friend's life unfortunately. Which is why you see masked people still out walking or driving by themselves and why some are so quick to want every kid vaccinated. And of course, he has no kids.planoaggie123 said:
I am chatting to a coworker right now....he is adamant all kids get vaccinated...he has no kids....the belief is the pandemic doesnt end until we get over 80% vaccinated including kids....
I think this is sound reasoning.Rev03 said:
obviously every parent will need to decide what makes most sense for their kid with help from their pediatrician and other experts. From what I have read, it seems that many think that when covid becomes endemic, young kids will end up being exposed to it numerous times by the time they turn 5-10. Then, when the kid is exposed to covid again at older ages, they will have built up enough immunity to not have a severe effect from covid. For young kids, every new illness they get is novel to them, so their immune systems have been better able to deal with covid, but for us older people, our immune systems aren't as good at dealing with novel viruses so it's been a little unpredictable to know how severe we will end up getting covid.
Anyway, I have a daughter who is halfway between 10-11, so I feel like she's old enough where getting the vaccine would be a good idea, because I think there is the possibility that with cases going down, there is a chance that she won't be exposed to covid until perhaps later on, and the older she gets, the higher her risk becomes. So I don't fear the idea of her getting exposed to covid now with the lower pediatric dose so that when she is exposed again when she's older, her immune system will better know what to do. It also helps that she is a girl and the myocarditis risk has not been seen in girls so far.
Capitol Ag said:Fear runs your friend's life unfortunately. Which is why you see masked people still out walking or driving by themselves and why some are so quick to want every kid vaccinated. And of course, he has no kids.planoaggie123 said:
I am chatting to a coworker right now....he is adamant all kids get vaccinated...he has no kids....the belief is the pandemic doesnt end until we get over 80% vaccinated including kids....
Perfect situation where this would be weighed very heavy. I do wonder if just getting vaccinated is enough to protect mom, if her autoimmunity doesn't prevent her from being vaccinated of course.bay fan said:
I agree. I have good friends where the mom is actually a doctor and she hasn't worked through the pandemic as she is severely auto immune compromised. This development will allow their kids who have had to curtail activities to avoid bringing infection home to resume a more normal life. For some, this is terrific news.
I hear ya. No point in bringing anything up that would hurt your employment.planoaggie123 said:Capitol Ag said:Fear runs your friend's life unfortunately. Which is why you see masked people still out walking or driving by themselves and why some are so quick to want every kid vaccinated. And of course, he has no kids.planoaggie123 said:
I am chatting to a coworker right now....he is adamant all kids get vaccinated...he has no kids....the belief is the pandemic doesnt end until we get over 80% vaccinated including kids....
I agree. I just don't get into it. I just stopped the conversation. But it shows you how people think and its amazing how many people without kids have an opinion on your kids (b/c kids getting the shot will end the pandemic and nobody will die anymore).
Don't mind ruffling some feathers on Texags but its different at work.
Our team is 75% extreme liberal at the manager and above level (working for a company in a traditionally conservative industry). Just not worth it.
Brad06ag said:actually it is.gunan01 said:
Thatsnothowanyofthisworks.gif
You are comparing the odds of getting myocarditis from the vaccine or from getting COVID.
Getting COVID is a chance occurrence that you absolutely have to factor in if you want to compare it to CHOOSING to get a vaccine.
Simply living doesn't put you in the 100% chance of getting COVID bracket. So to do a fair risk comparison, you compare overall risks.
gunan01 said:
Yes the tin foil hats are strong with you guys.
"The vaccine"gunan01 said:
People who are allergic to components of the vaccine
