From https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/mayo-clinic-doctor-on-people-using-horse-drug-ivermectin-for-covid-its-hard-to-explain

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"If I said to you, you know what, instead of an FDA-approved vaccine that's been tested in hundreds of thousands of people. Instead, let's take a drug that's used to treat parasites," Poland said on the Mayo Clinic podcast. "And many people are buying it over the counter in an animal treatment preparation that hasn't been studied for this, which makes people sick, can cause hallucinations, coma, and if you take it when you're pregnant, can cause birth defects, and let's use that instead."

In May, the University of Minnesota Medical School began a $1.5 million clinical trial of ivermectin to treat COVID-19. The school, as of Aug. 11, said existing trials show "mixed results," noting "there is insufficient data at this time to recommend its use in COVID-19." As for trials that suggest some potential benefit, the school says these studies are not peer-reviewed and have various flaws, including a small sample size and inconsistent dosage.

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Medical Science is as great as it is because it does research studies to figure out what works and what doesn't work.

There is one current article about a judge in Ohio ordering a hospital to treat a patient with ivermectin. See https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/570331-judge-orders-resistant-hospital-to-treat-covid for details. Perhaps the State Medical Board of Ohio should revoke his license to practice law.

It's terrifying to me that so many so called "conservatives" want to live in a world where people aren't allowed to make decisions for their own body. You want to revoke a judge's license simply because he ruled on behalf of personal freedom. If the man wanted to be treated while wearing a bozo the clown wig and a big red nose then by god his wife should be allowed to go to party city and pick up a costume to put on him.

Your super duper scary article states " It has been used with FDA approval in specified doses for humans" and " Animal drugs are often highly concentrated because they are used for large animals like horses and cows, which can weigh a lot more than we doa ton or more. Such high doses can be highly toxic in humans".

So the only risk in using ivermectin is getting the dosage wrong. I would think the hospital could administer the correct dose that has been approved for human use for the last 40 years. What's the risk in that?

This story has nothing to do with ivermectin. It may work, it may not. This story is all about a judge having to step in to grant a man control over his own body. And you want him to lose his job over it. Pathetic.

I think the bigger deal with the Ohio story is trying order a physician to prescribe something outside of it's intended use and that has little clinical or research backing.

That's why they have a medical license to help make these decisions with the patient. If they don't feel comfortable with a suggested treatment option because of risk or medical efficacy that falls back on them to not prescribe and find other Tx options.

At this point in the pandemic we have several approved vaccines and treatment interventions that are effective and clinically backed.

Ivermectin is not and no medical authoritative body is recommending continued usage for COVID Tx. We are trying to get to a better place with this pandemic and it has caused so much pain, I get that. But this is not the way and may cause more unintended pain.

https://today.tamu.edu/2021/08/27/texas-am-expert-warns-against-using-ivermectin-to-treat-covid-19/

Would you feel this way if the judge ordered a physician to perform an abortion?

An individual's freedom is great, but shouldn't come at the expense of another's freedom.

Or, maybe it's a testament to how badly Faucci and the respective mouthpieces have shredded their credibility.

Called doctor yesterday to ask about treatment if I get Covid. He said they would give me Ivermectin, some nasal inhaler I forgot the name of, and some other things. He's treated hundreds of patients already.

Family members in CC got Covid. Spohn hospital treated with Ivermectin.

Some of you act like no one is prescribing it.

Side effect of ivermectin is nothing?
Side effect of abortion is actively ending a human life. You know it's a terrible analogy but went with it anyway.

I would argue that if the doctor in good faith felt the requested treatment would cause harm then they should remove themself from the case and get another doctor assigned. I don't think that can be said for ivermectin.

If your gonna take Ivermectin (as my Doctor also told me he would prescribe) you may want to make sure you get it from your Dr in pill form. Taking the injectable Ivermectin for cattle and horses can contain PEGs which could possibly cause an issue down the road if your taking the covid vaccines, seems that some people are having reactions to PEGs used in the covid vaccines after building antibodies against PEGs. I read an article that states that some people have antibodies towards PEGs and that they are having reactions to the vaccine due to the PEG antibodies they already had in their system... anyway just my 2 cents.. I would get it from your Doctor in pill form or what ever form he deems safe to take

coolerguy12 said:

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It's terrifying to me that so many so called "conservatives" want to live in a world where people aren't allowed to make decisions for their own body. You want to revoke a judge's license simply because he ruled on behalf of personal freedom. If the man wanted to be treated while wearing a bozo the clown wig and a big red nose then by god his wife should be allowed to go to party city and pick up a costume to put on him.

Your super duper scary article states " It has been used with FDA approval in specified doses for humans" and " Animal drugs are often highly concentrated because they are used for large animals like horses and cows, which can weigh a lot more than we doa ton or more. Such high doses can be highly toxic in humans".

So the only risk in using ivermectin is getting the dosage wrong. I would think the hospital could administer the correct dose that has been approved for human use for the last 40 years. What's the risk in that?

This story has nothing to do with ivermectin. It may work, it may not. This story is all about a judge having to step in to grant a man control over his own body. And you want him to lose his job over it. Pathetic.

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Where do you get the idea that it is a Conservative value for judges to make medical decisions instead of medical doctors who have actually studied medicine and had a great deal of experience in practicing medicine?

I can certainly imagine a leftist judge usurping the ability to make medical decisions.

If you want to take ivermectin for covid, have at it. You can probably even find a doctor who will prescribe it for you. I'm fine with that. It's between you and your doctor.

What we have here is a judge stepping in between the two and ordering the hospital to provide a dubious treatment. That's not Conservative at all. Or do you imagine Conservatism to be all about a big, all powerful government exerting more and more control over people's lives?

ETA:

Years ago, thalidomide was prescribed in other countries for things like colds and the flu. If it turned out to help covid patients, do you think a judge should be able to order hospitals to treat their patients with it?

eric76 said:

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Medical Science is as great as it is because it does research studies to figure out what works and what doesn't work.

There is one current article about a judge in Ohio ordering a hospital to treat a patient with ivermectin. See https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/570331-judge-orders-resistant-hospital-to-treat-covid for details. Perhaps the State Medical Board of Ohio should revoke his license to practice law.

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Not surprisingly, the linked article summarizes the OH case in a fear based absurd manner.

The covid positive patient was PRESCRIBED ivermectin by his DOCTOR. The hospital refused to administer it. Essentially there were two prescribed courses of therapy for the patient to choose and the hospital made the choice for him. That is absurd on its face.

The fact that it's being parroted by those that do not care to research the issue but prefer article headlines or Facebook memes for their news tells me all I need to know about the OP.

It was one of the FLCCC docs who prescribed the ivermectin. Very unlikely that he was the one actually taking care of the patient in the hospital.

coolerguy12 said:

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Side effect of ivermectin is nothing?
Side effect of abortion is actively ending a human life. You know it's a terrible analogy but went with it anyway.

I would argue that if the doctor in good faith felt the requested treatment would cause harm then they should remove themself from the case and get another doctor assigned. I don't think that can be said for ivermectin.

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There is harm to everything, even placebo. In this case the biggest potential harm is that millions of people think an antiparasitic drug will save them if they get COVID, and they're avoiding vaccination because of it. I'm not going to spell out all the potential consequences of that, but it's greater than the individual.

If a doctor doesn't want to perform an abortion should they be the ones finding another doctor to perform it? If a patient wants me to help them find someone to give them an abortion, I'm going to tell them to Google it themselves.

If this patient wanted ivermectin so bad, he should have found himself a doctor. We do not need judges telling doctors how to practice medicine.


ETA: if something truly has zero harm/risk/side effects, it would be pretty rare for it to have benefit. Something's do have a very favorable NNT and NNH ratio, but nothing with benefit is with zero risk.

I have never taken ivermectin, nor have I ever been in the hospital for Covid, nor will I ever be in the hospital for Covid. Your beef is not with me friend.

Obviously it would be horrible for a judge to force a treatment on a patient AMA and against the patients wishes. My assumption is that the patient or his legal representative has requested the drug and the hospital is refusing.

The article is unclear but it's pretty easy to infer from details that are left out what the situation is.

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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coolerguy12 said:

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Side effect of ivermectin is nothing?
Side effect of abortion is actively ending a human life. You know it's a terrible analogy but went with it anyway.

I would argue that if the doctor in good faith felt the requested treatment would cause harm then they should remove themself from the case and get another doctor assigned. I don't think that can be said for ivermectin.

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There is harm to everything, even placebo. In this case the biggest potential harm is that millions of people think an antiparasitic drug will save them if they get COVID, and they're avoiding vaccination because of it. I'm not going to spell out all the potential consequences of that, but it's greater than the individual.

If a doctor doesn't want to perform an abortion should they be the ones finding another doctor to perform it? If a patient wants me to help them find someone to give them an abortion, I'm going to tell them to Google it themselves.

If this patient wanted ivermectin so bad, he should have found himself a doctor. We do not need judges telling doctors how to practice medicine.


ETA: if something truly has zero harm/risk/side effects, it would be pretty rare for it to have benefit. Something's do have a very favorable NNT and NNH ratio, but nothing with benefit is with zero risk.

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Advil or Tylenol has very good benefit for headaches/body pain with little to no side effect when used properly.

Ivermectin is not the reason I'm not getting vaccinated. I didn't even ask my doctor about Ivermectin. He told me it is one of the drugs he prescribes. Many are prescribing it.

It's pretty obvious at this point that there is a campaign effort and a political effort to minimize or nullify a benefit to Ivermectin. The fact that the popular and consistent narrative is "horse dewormer" or "animal drugs" should be an easy tell.

Exhibit A:

Popular 54 year old podcaster (unvaccinated) takes Ivermectin (among several other things) and recovers after a single day of bad Covid symptoms.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTSsA8wAR2-/?utm_medium=copy_link

Response:
CNN only focuses on Ivermectin and completely omits his quick recovery.


Oh, and he didn't take up a hospital bed.

The article I read (not sure if it is the same one linked, I didn't click on it) said the hospital had gotten to the point where they had no other treatment to offer. Basically, the guy is going to die, sorry. His wife wanted them to try a last-ditch effort with ivermectin, and the hospital refused. The patient has been on a ventilator for weeks.

If I were his wife I would want to try it as well, and would pursue any means necessary to avoid the "what if it would have helped him?" second guessing after his death.

One would think a hospital would go along with her wishes without having to be coerced by a judge.

The propaganda is in full force over Ivermectin tonight. They all are using the visually persuasive tactic of labeling it a “horse dewormer.”

They know how popular Joe Rogan is and they are front running this by priming the audience that this Nobel Prize winning drug is unsafe. pic.twitter.com/pJxOqXKA22

— unhoodwinked (@unhoodwinked) September 2, 2021

lol, COVID has minor effects for the vast majority of people who get it. This site can't have it both ways, COVID is just the sniffles! See, this guy/gal took ivermectin and they had a minor case! It works!

FWIW, many people from this site have been or are currently in the ICU. Many of those have taken ivermectin. I can throw out anecdotes as well.

I don't know who Scott Adams is but his tweet above is on point. A microcosm of today's political discourse and discussion of any issue regarding COVID.

One proven medical benefit of Ivermectin is that it helps identify who has been brainwashed.

(Spoiler: They're the ones on the left calling it horse dewormer and the ones on the right saying it is scientifically proven to work.)

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) September 2, 2021

"it's only obese people that are filling our hospitals!"
"Ivermectin kept this healthy guy out of the hospital!"

coolerguy12 said:

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Obviously it would be horrible for a judge to force a treatment on a patient AMA and against the patients wishes. My assumption is that the patient or his legal representative has requested the drug and the hospital is refusing.

The article is unclear but it's pretty easy to infer from details that are left out what the situation is.

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Kind of like ordering a bakery to bake a gay wedding cake?

JesusQuintana said:

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aggierogue said:

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bigtruckguy3500 said:

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coolerguy12 said:

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Side effect of ivermectin is nothing?
Side effect of abortion is actively ending a human life. You know it's a terrible analogy but went with it anyway.

I would argue that if the doctor in good faith felt the requested treatment would cause harm then they should remove themself from the case and get another doctor assigned. I don't think that can be said for ivermectin.

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There is harm to everything, even placebo. In this case the biggest potential harm is that millions of people think an antiparasitic drug will save them if they get COVID, and they're avoiding vaccination because of it. I'm not going to spell out all the potential consequences of that, but it's greater than the individual.

If a doctor doesn't want to perform an abortion should they be the ones finding another doctor to perform it? If a patient wants me to help them find someone to give them an abortion, I'm going to tell them to Google it themselves.

If this patient wanted ivermectin so bad, he should have found himself a doctor. We do not need judges telling doctors how to practice medicine.


ETA: if something truly has zero harm/risk/side effects, it would be pretty rare for it to have benefit. Something's do have a very favorable NNT and NNH ratio, but nothing with benefit is with zero risk.

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Advil or Tylenol has very good benefit for headaches/body pain with little to no side effect when used properly.

Ivermectin is not the reason I'm not getting vaccinated. I didn't even ask my doctor about Ivermectin. He told me it is one of the drugs he prescribes. Many are prescribing it.

It's pretty obvious at this point that there is a campaign effort and a political effort to minimize or nullify a benefit to Ivermectin. The fact that the popular and consistent narrative is "horse dewormer" or "animal drugs" should be an easy tell.

Exhibit A:

Popular 54 year old podcaster (unvaccinated) takes Ivermectin (among several other things) and recovers after a single day of bad Covid symptoms.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTSsA8wAR2-/?utm_medium=copy_link

Response:
CNN only focuses on Ivermectin and completely omits his quick recovery.


Oh, and he didn't take up a hospital bed.

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The 54-year-old comedian isolated from his family and started getting "fevers and sweats" that night, he said. Rogan tested positive for COVID the following morning, and began taking several medications, including monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, Z-Pak and prednisone, he said. He also took an NAD drip and a vitamin D drip.

Above is what he said he took the day he tested positive. Can anyone one explain how I would get that cocktail if I test positive for covid today? Is this standard treatment for the general public?

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Wait, he took all that and the ivermectin proponents are saying it was the ivermectin that helped?

To answer your question, that is not standard of care. My guess is that he has some sort of concierge doctor that he pays a lot of money to, and that doctor is willing to do whatever Rogan wants as long as he keeps paying the money.

Quote:

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To answer your question, that is not standard of care. My guess is that he has some sort of concierge doctor that he pays a lot of money to, and that doctor is willing to do whatever Rogan wants as long as he keeps paying the money.

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This is what killed Prince, Tom Petty, and Michael Jackson.

aggierogue said:

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Called doctor yesterday to ask about treatment if I get Covid. He said they would give me Ivermectin, some nasal inhaler I forgot the name of, and some other things. He's treated hundreds of patients already.

Family members in CC got Covid. Spohn hospital treated with Ivermectin.

Some of you act like no one is prescribing it.

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I think the point is that the vaccine is much more well tested and FDA approved for use against the virus, and people are refusing to take it but are happy to seek out an off label use of a drug intended for livestock.

htxag09 said:

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lol, COVID has minor effects for the vast majority of people who get it. This site can't have it both ways, COVID is just the sniffles! See, this guy/gal took ivermectin and they had a minor case! It works!

FWIW, many people from this site have been or are currently in the ICU. Many of those have taken ivermectin. I can throw out anecdotes as well.

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Out of curiosity, can you tell us who the many out of the many on this site that went to the ICU ended up there after taking ivermectin?

Aston94 said:

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aggierogue said:

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Called doctor yesterday to ask about treatment if I get Covid. He said they would give me Ivermectin, some nasal inhaler I forgot the name of, and some other things. He's treated hundreds of patients already.

Family members in CC got Covid. Spohn hospital treated with Ivermectin.

Some of you act like no one is prescribing it.

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I think the point is that the vaccine is much more well tested and FDA approved for use against the virus, and people are refusing to take it but are happy to seek out an off label use of a drug intended for livestock.

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The vaccine is so well tested that the story has gone from:

• 100% immunity no cases, no hospitalizations, no deaths
• No hospitalizations & no deaths
• Okay less severe cases versus individuals who haven't yet had covid
• Well now you need a booster every 4 months & pills every day (pfizer)

So yeah its almost as if the vaccine wasn't that well tested or we were flat out lied to. Your pick.

*Note a vaccine still makes sense for individuals with certain comorbidities. However, pushing for a treatment when sick is just being rational.

Well in a single thread alone, Rex, Jbob, and Curry took Ivermectin (Jbob and Curry on day 2) and are still in the ICU. Rex is finally going home today, after being in the hospital for 2 and a half weeks.

texagbeliever said:

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The vaccine is so well tested that the story has gone from:

• 100% immunity no cases, no hospitalizations, no deaths
• No hospitalizations & no deaths
• Okay less severe cases versus individuals who haven't yet had covid
• Well now you need a booster every 4 months & pills every day (pfizer)

So yeah its almost as if the vaccine wasn't that well tested or we were flat out lied to. Your pick.

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I'm pretty sure everything you just said is wrong.