Hospital ICU beds at capacity......

8,785 Views | 49 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by 3rd Generation Ag
nortex97
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AG
HotardAg07 said:

nortex97 said:

I thought Houston ICU's were supposed to be over-run in week two of July. Did that somehow not happen?
Houston reached the higher end of Phase 2 capacity but never entered Phase 3 capacity:

In late June it was forecast Houston would exceed capacity in 2 weeks.

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3120487/replies

The fear then, as now, was unfounded. Hospitals have flexibility in ICU capacity and can certainly hit what is needed; what they can't do is maintain an excess of more than 5-8 percent ICU staffed beds not needed on any given week. They never got close to exceeding capacity around July 4, and they won't this time, with vastly fewer Covid patients now requiring ICU beds per case.

cc_ag92
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They can certainly add beds. They can't just make staff materialize out of thin air. That's the problem when too many hospitals hit capacity. They can't shift employees because they're needed at every hospital. They can't hire traveling nurses because there aren't enough to go around.
nortex97
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No, they have to re-allocate existing resources, correct. Not sure why you are responding to me here. I didn't advocate otherwise. Flexible ICU capacity is exactly what the TMC data is designed to track/predict/plan for in phases.

Once again, TMC is not going to exceed ICU capacity, period.
HotardAg07
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They did exceed capacity in July - Phase 1 capacity. Did you read the earlier posts? There was misunderstanding about what capacity meant in the media, which led the TMC to clarify how they can add capacity to basic capacity to deal with surge situations which are fairly common. However TMC also made it clear that while Phase 3 Capacity was possible, it was not sustainable and should be taken seriously and avoided. At the peak hospitalization in July/August we were just short of Phase 3 whole delaying elective procedures

I feel like you're suggesting that those working at the TMC did not understand their own hospital capacity, but I think they were clear and it was the media and layperson who didn't understand how to interpret what they were saying..
nortex97
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HotardAg07 said:

They did exceed capacity in July - Phase 1 capacity. Did you read the earlier posts? There was misunderstanding about what capacity meant in the media, which led the TMC to clarify how they can add capacity to basic capacity to deal with surge situations which are fairly common. However TMC also made it clear that while Phase 3 Capacity was possible, it was not sustainable and should be taken seriously and avoided. At the peak hospitalization in July/August we were just short of Phase 3 whole delaying elective procedures

I feel like you're suggesting that those working at the TMC did not understand their own hospital capacity, but I think they were clear and it was the media and layperson who didn't understand how to interpret what they were saying..
This is the kind of comment that I expect in the media, and on F84. It was never going to be exceeded. they knew that and only reporters/doomers believed otherwise. Look at the thread I posted. the fear was real, and somehow has been perpetuated to today, needlessly.

I suggest that people get a grip on the fact that ICU capacity is always near what actual need is, and there is flexibility to add to it when needed (TMC uses 3 tiers collectively for the facilities there). No one benefits by nitpicking numbers/statistics/fears. It will be ok.
bigtruckguy3500
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nortex97 said:



I suggest that people get a grip on the fact that ICU capacity is always near what actual need is, and there is flexibility to add to it when needed (TMC uses 3 tiers collectively for the facilities there). No one benefits by nitpicking numbers/statistics/fears. It will be ok.
That's a technically accurate statement, but not really accurate.

Yes, when ICU beds aren't in use, ICU nurses don't come to work, and those rooms are closed off. As need arises, beds open and more nurses come in. When the surgical/trauma ICU fills up, surgical patients are shifted to the medical ICUs and vice-versa.

When all ICU beds are full, patients board in the ER and step down units are converted to ICU units. When those are full, you start taking up general floor space. But general medical floors aren't designed to be ICUs. They're set up for nurses to manage 4+ patients with a nursing station far away from patient rooms. Some lack the ability to hook up telemetry and monitors in the room.

Additionally, as everyone points out, critical care nurses aren't as common as general floor nurses. And critical care nurses are getting squeezed right now. It's great to say it'll all be ok while we continue to expect them to work more and more hours and take care of more than 2 patients at a time. But that's like throwing a cigarette onto dry grass while firefighters are fighting wildfires, and and just being like "it'll be ok, if a fire starts, the over worked firefights will figure it out." Maybe they will. And I'm sure they'll flex and give up their time off to stop the fires. But is that the right way to look at it?

Maybe you think it is. I don't. I doubt we'll agree on this.
aggiederelict
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Do you work at a hospital? Just curious.
Gordo14
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Feel free to let Marcus and the other doctors know they are worried about nothing, just media paranoia. While you're at it, let them know they should stop wearing masks for their health and safety.
cc_ag92
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Memphis DJ transported to hospital 100 miles away because no ICU beds were available in Memphis. He broke his ankle, developed a blood clot, and needed treatment, but couldn't receive it near home because the ICUs were full. He died. I'm not claiming he would have lived if treated in Memphis, just giving an example of hospital resources being stretched to a point that they won't take another patient.

WFAA News
nortex97
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Gordo14 said:

Feel free to let Marcus and the other doctors know they are worried about nothing, just media paranoia. While you're at it, let them know they should stop wearing masks for their health and safety.
You do need help, sorry. I didn't suggest doctors in OR's etc. stop wearing PPE properly. I also didn't suggest all nurses are ready to work in an ICU ward. What I did suggest is simply that panic is as unwarranted today as it was in June/July.

Some of the panic in fact comes from doctors that...DON'T work in ICU's, or even in an acute care capacity, because they fear being 'drafted' into that world and haven't worked a round in a hospital since medical school. It's a fear in/around the Houston MD community.

There are some ad hominem attacks above which I won't address, no desire to be doxed for speaking out on this board contra the popular opinions. Just because you disagree with an assertion regarding anything in your COVID opinion-space/world belief system doesn't mean it's false; it should be considered if you want to look at the statistics, and science.

If you do want to talk about silly mask mandates for the public (which is an odd turn for this thread), perhaps read the new paper that came out this week; I suspect the previous 3 posters won't read it or consider the fallacious 'science' behind public mask mandates.

https://nypost.com/2020/12/16/wearing-a-used-mask-could-worse-than-no-mask-amid-covid-19-study/
Quote:

Researchers from the University of Massachusetts Lowell and California Baptist University say that masks slow down airflow, making people more susceptible to breathing in particles and a dirty face mask can't effectively filter out the tiniest of droplets.

"It is natural to think that wearing a mask, no matter new or old, should always be better than nothing," said author Jinxiang Xi.

"Our results show that this belief is only true for particles larger than 5 micrometers, but not for fine particles smaller than 2.5 micrometers."

They found that wearing a mask "significantly slows down" airflow, reducing a mask's efficacy and making a person more susceptible to inhaling aerosols into the nose where SARS-CoV-2 likes to lurk.

"In this study, we found that the protective efficacy of a mask for the nasal airway decreases at lower inhalation flow rates," the study said.
cc_ag92
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First of all, I'm not panicking, merely engaging in a discussion. I'm not sure why that's perceived as panic. Everyone in my household works outside of our house. Two college-aged students lived in their college towns, one in a dorm, one in an apartment. One of them flew to NYC this week to stay for a week with a friend who won't be coming home to Texas. Our daughter had Covid last month, so we weighed the possible risks and decided this was a good time for her to travel. We've also limited some of our activities, choosing to order food and other items online (from local restaurants and stores as much as possible) most of the time, as well as limiting social activities. We feel pretty comfortable with the balance we've attempted to achieve.

We know that masks aren't a miracle preventative, but do believe they're part of a strategy that slows down the spread so that our healthcare system can operate effectively. I did read the posted article. I honestly can't imagine wearing a mask day after day, but know some people do. I've never been a germ freak, but that just seems gross.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what I say. You're going to laugh and assume I'm panicking and cowering in my home or office. I won't lose sleep over it.
DadHammer
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cc_ag92 said:

They can certainly add beds. They can't just make staff materialize out of thin air. That's the problem when too many hospitals hit capacity. They can't shift employees because they're needed at every hospital. They can't hire traveling nurses because there aren't enough to go around.

I would like to see the facts you reviewed to make this statement ?

The head of the hospital system in Houston disagrees with your statements.
DadHammer
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Good post.
cc_ag92
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Well, if you go to page one of this thread, you'll see BigTruckGuy3500 explain it very clearly. This is not the first time a medical professional has explained it on this board.

In my personal life, the hospital employees I know (nurses, doctors, administrators) have all said the same thing. Yes, they can add beds. They do it often. They can usually transfer patients to other nearby hospitals when needed. They can bring in contract nurses or ask nurses to work overtime. It's not working that way now.

I'm assuming you want to read about it somewhere else, so I just did a quick Google search for ICU Capacity explained.

LA Times - yes, I know it's California, but the article includes a clear explanation of ICU capacity.
Stat News- health and medicine journal
Live Science

I've got work to do tonight, so I'm not going to search anymore, but the information is easy to locate.
Not a Bot
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Here's the situation right now where I am at the moment. Only here for a short time.

We are at 32-34% Covid+ depending on how you calculate available beds. Our stepdown nurses are taking 4-5 patients each when our usual standard is 3. Telemetry taking up to 6 when usually 4-5. Standards of care are hard to meet. Many nurses staying 2-3 hours over to chart. Acuity very high on non-Covid units as there's nowhere to spread the load.

All available beds in use. Unless we get creative we are full.
3rd Generation Ag
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One of my neighbors had a fall and had to be transported to a hospital. His wife is being allowed to stay with him since he has stroke related speech issues that make him hard to understand. She ran back to get a bag since she said they took him with nothing, not even shoes and she needed breakfast bars. Said the hospital itself was scary with all the precautions and she mentioned really overworked nurses, even on a non covid ward.
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