The entire country did shut down because of New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. What's your point?

I wear a mask because I too think they work. I want everyone to wear a mask. I think a hell of a lot of people are wearing masks much more now I have personally seen than when we were in an actual lockdown type environment. It's not even debatable that many more people are wearing them. In the first "lockdown" hardly anyone was wearing them into Home Depot, grocery stores, Target, etc. Now, you can almost count the people on both of your hands not wearing a mask in those stores (I'm in Houston).

The mask debate is the stupidest freaking debate we have in my opinion, especially since I think it's such a misrepresentation of the current surge in cases. I think the disingenuous leaders have made it about mask wearing when I feel the reality is the cause is a combination of bars and protests.

I'll echo the message wear a mask because they work and let's start to resume normalcy with that practice. I will not parrot the message that the current surge in cases is mostly due to non-mask wearing.

Beat40 said:

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I wear a mask because I too think they work. I want everyone to wear a mask. I think a hell of a lot of people are wearing masks much more now I have personally seen than when we were in an actual lockdown type environment. It's not even debatable that many more people are wearing them. In the first "lockdown" hardly anyone was wearing them into Home Depot, grocery stores, Target, etc. Now, you can almost count the people on both of your hands not wearing a mask in those stores (I'm in Houston).

The mask debate is the stupidest freaking debate we have in my opinion, especially since I think it's such a misrepresentation of the current surge in cases. I think the disingenuous leaders have made it about mask wearing when I feel the reality is the cause is a combination of bars and protests.

I'll echo the message wear a mask because they work and let's start to resume normalcy with that practice. I will not parrot the message that the current surge in cases is mostly due to non-mask wearing.

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I went to Amarillo on Monday afternoon -- the first time in a year and a half.

At Grainger's, they were very strict about masks.

At Cavender's, there was a sign on the door saying masks were required but they didn't seem to be interested in asking people to wear them. My impression was that most people would wear them initially but after seeing others not wearing masks some would remove them. It made me think that for many people, it is all about being one of the herd and not being noticed.

There are a lot of grown adults who are oddly worried about how other people think they look with a mask on.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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There are a lot of grown adults who are oddly worried about how other people think they look with a mask on.

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It wouldn't surprise me if this were the real reason many refuse to wear masks. They are afraid that they'll look like a dork.

You post on f16, so it surprises me that you aren't 100% certain of this fact.

eric76 said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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There are a lot of grown adults who are oddly worried about how other people think they look with a mask on.

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It wouldn't surprise me if this were the real reason many refuse to wear masks. They are afraid that they'll look like a dork.

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I have zero doubts that's the reason for a good percentage of people.

Hell, Karen should just get her bedazzler out and make a lot of money making bedazzled masks for her NextDoor group. They could even bedazzle Johnny's select baseball uniform # on one side and they'd make an absolute mint.

It's also the fact that masks are inconvenient. Some people aren't willing do something inconvenient when the primary purpose is to help other people. Its selfishness.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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There are a lot of grown adults who are oddly worried about how other people think they look with a mask on.

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This big time. It's obvious from posters on other forums, people on TV, etc. that they're insecure that it will make them seem weak or afraid. Really sad to see that level of vanity and machoism.

Old RV Ag said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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There are a lot of grown adults who are oddly worried about how other people think they look with a mask on.

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This big time. It's obvious from posters on other forums, people on TV, etc. that they're insecure that it will make them seem weak or afraid. Really sad to see that level of vanity and machoism.

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It has been labeled as such. Wearing a mask is now a political statement for many, and a sign of weakness and fear. Go read any F16 covid thread, it is there. All this talk of shaming people for not wearing masks, but the opposite is also true. People have been yelled at for wearing masks too.

The anti-mask side is inherently counterintuitive. Wear a mask = open up 100%. But those yelling for 100% open also in the same breath say they will not wear a mask.

88planoAg said:

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Old RV Ag said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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There are a lot of grown adults who are oddly worried about how other people think they look with a mask on.

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This big time. It's obvious from posters on other forums, people on TV, etc. that they're insecure that it will make them seem weak or afraid. Really sad to see that level of vanity and machoism.

---

It has been labeled as such. Wearing a mask is now a political statement for many, and a sign of weakness and fear. Go read any F16 covid thread, it is there. All this talk of shaming people for not wearing masks, but the opposite is also true. People have been yelled at for wearing masks too.

The anti-mask side is inherently counterintuitive. Wear a mask = open up 100%. But those yelling for 100% open also in the same breath say they will not wear a mask.

---

They just don't want to deal with it. In their mind, they're not high-risk so they can just ignore it until it goes away.

I wonder if there would have been this sort of online uproar if the internet had been in wide use when seat belts became mandated.

I get that there's a more direct cause and effect with seat belts compared to masks (i.e., I'm going to go flying through the windshield and get splattered if I don't wear a seat belt, vs the less direct getting ill or spreading an unrecognized COVID illness to others by not wearing a mask) but this is as close as I could come for an analogy.

docaggie said:

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I wonder if there would have been this sort of online uproar if the internet had been in wide use when seat belts became mandated.

I get that there's a more direct cause and effect with seat belts compared to masks (i.e., I'm going to go flying through the windshield and get splattered if I don't wear a seat belt, vs the less direct getting ill or spreading an unrecognized COVID illness to others by not wearing a mask) but this is as close as I could come for an analogy.

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I was around when seat belts were being mandated. Heck, there were still lots of cars on the road that didn't even have them. Even in the information Stone Age, the uproar was widespread and loud. Main argument was it would trap you in a burning car. Many said it was safer to be thrown free from the car in an accident - can you believe this crazy idea that that was safer! Also, people said the same about power locks and power windows being unsafe although those weren't being mandated. Airbags were another as many said they would randomly go off when you're driving and actually cause an accident.

Masks and seat belts are really a great analogy. If you got in a car with someone and started to put on your belt and they didn't wear their's, they'd make fun of you and call you weak and afraid. Another example is helmets.

Biggest difference between the masks and seatbelt analogy is that seatbelts have a direct causal effect on YOUR personal safety.

The whole point of wearing anything less than an N95 mask is to hope you don't spread it to others. Imagine how much people would still be fighting seat belts if you wearing a seatbelt only helped improve the safety of someone in another car.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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eric76 said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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There are a lot of grown adults who are oddly worried about how other people think they look with a mask on.

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It wouldn't surprise me if this were the real reason many refuse to wear masks. They are afraid that they'll look like a dork.

---

I have zero doubts that's the reason for a good percentage of people.

Hell, Karen should just get her bedazzler out and make a lot of money making bedazzled masks for her NextDoor group. They could even bedazzle Johnny's select baseball uniform # on one side and they'd make an absolute mint.

---

The real Karens are those who have such high feelings of entitlement that they feel that they don't need to wear masks.

Q: Why does a human sneeze?
A: A sneeze is one of your body's first defenses against invading bacteria and viruses.

Q: Given that, could a mask inhibit the body's ability to rid itself of bacteria and viruses by instead trapping and creating a warm moist environment for the growth of bacteria and viruses in the cloth or paper mask?

A sneeze is the first response to an irritant.

Just how much are you sneezing that you'd have to worry about how much you're sneezing with a mask on??

sleepybeagle said:

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Q: Why does a human sneeze?
A: A sneeze is one of your body's first defenses against invading bacteria and viruses.

Q: Given that, could a mask inhibit the body's ability to rid itself of bacteria and viruses by instead trapping and creating a warm moist environment for the growth of bacteria and viruses in the cloth or paper mask?

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In addition to what the doc above me said, a sneeze also is hypothesized as something infectious pathogens try to get out body to do in order to promote propogation.

The one thing I know for certain is there is not one group or demographic or voting block or whatever that is refusing to wear masks. It is a broad spectrum of people across all groups no matter how you slice or dice them. It is not just one group causing all of the problems with masks. I work in one of the more diverse areas of Texas that is not a part of a major population center, and I see people from all walks of life wearing them and all walks of life not wearing them.

In the end, and I will try not to cross into politics but this should be obvious to everyone, it is a failure of leadership from the very beginning from anyone and everyone with any regional or national influence in this country.

Personally, I got caught up in it to a certain extent. At least for a while. When it comes to Coronavirus I ONLY listen to doctors and medical professionals. I have business going on with a guy in an Atlanta suburb right now that works in the ER. He told me this morning that it is a very difficult situation and I could here the stress in his voice. He is a combat vet. I have friends in Dallas and Houston and Temple that are doctors or otherwise in health care and they tell me different stories of their hospital experiences, for better and more often recently for worse. And then of course the doctors on this forum. A good friend of mine on my street who I have mentioned on here before is an Army Captain in a MASH type unit who went from Hood to NYC in March. He lost hundreds of patients in just a few weeks.

Those are the people who we should be listening too. They are who I listen too. And they tell me to wear a mask so I do.

sleepybeagle said:

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Q: Why does a human sneeze?
A: A sneeze is one of your body's first defenses against invading bacteria and viruses.

Q: Given that, could a mask inhibit the body's ability to rid itself of bacteria and viruses by instead trapping and creating a warm moist environment for the growth of bacteria and viruses in the cloth or paper mask?

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Viruses do not replicate by themselves -- they require a live cell from a host for that. Unless you are using some kind of living mask made up of live tissue, a virus is not going to replicate at all there.

eric76 said:

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sleepybeagle said:

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Q: Why does a human sneeze?
A: A sneeze is one of your body's first defenses against invading bacteria and viruses.

Q: Given that, could a mask inhibit the body's ability to rid itself of bacteria and viruses by instead trapping and creating a warm moist environment for the growth of bacteria and viruses in the cloth or paper mask?

---

Viruses do not replicate by themselves -- they require a live cell from a host for that. Unless you are using some kind of living mask made up of live tissue, a virus is not going to replicate at all there.

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Do you think that my mask that I got from etsy seller "buffalo bill" is dangerous?

Duncan Idaho said:

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eric76 said:

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sleepybeagle said:

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Q: Why does a human sneeze?
A: A sneeze is one of your body's first defenses against invading bacteria and viruses.

Q: Given that, could a mask inhibit the body's ability to rid itself of bacteria and viruses by instead trapping and creating a warm moist environment for the growth of bacteria and viruses in the cloth or paper mask?

---

Viruses do not replicate by themselves -- they require a live cell from a host for that. Unless you are using some kind of living mask made up of live tissue, a virus is not going to replicate at all there.

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Do you think that my mask that I got from etsy seller "buffalo bill" is dangerous?

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I'm sure the mask is one of kind

sleepybeagle said:

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Q: Why does a human sneeze?
A: A sneeze is one of your body's first defenses against invading bacteria and viruses.

so, where do pepper, pollen, and dust fall into bacteria and viruses categories?

Q: Given that, could a mask inhibit the body's ability to rid itself of bacteria and viruses by instead trapping and creating a warm moist environment for the growth of bacteria and viruses in the cloth or paper mask?

well, diarrhea also is a way the body tries to expel bacteria and viruses. Guess the anti-mask cult can equate masks to diapers now.

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Duncan Idaho said:

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eric76 said:

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sleepybeagle said:

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Q: Why does a human sneeze?
A: A sneeze is one of your body's first defenses against invading bacteria and viruses.

Q: Given that, could a mask inhibit the body's ability to rid itself of bacteria and viruses by instead trapping and creating a warm moist environment for the growth of bacteria and viruses in the cloth or paper mask?

---

Viruses do not replicate by themselves -- they require a live cell from a host for that. Unless you are using some kind of living mask made up of live tissue, a virus is not going to replicate at all there.

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Do you think that my mask that I got from etsy seller "buffalo bill" is dangerous?

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Does it come with its own nose?

agsalaska said:

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The one thing I know for certain is there is not one group or demographic or voting block or whatever that is refusing to wear masks. It is a broad spectrum of people across all groups no matter how you slice or dice them. It is not just one group causing all of the problems with masks. I work in one of the more diverse areas of Texas that is not a part of a major population center, and I see people from all walks of life wearing them and all walks of life not wearing them.

In the end, and I will try not to cross into politics but this should be obvious to everyone, it is a failure of leadership from the very beginning from anyone and everyone with any regional or national influence in this country.

Personally, I got caught up in it to a certain extent. At least for a while. When it comes to Coronavirus I ONLY listen to doctors and medical professionals. I have business going on with a guy in an Atlanta suburb right now that works in the ER. He told me this morning that it is a very difficult situation and I could here the stress in his voice. He is a combat vet. I have friends in Dallas and Houston and Temple that are doctors or otherwise in health care and they tell me different stories of their hospital experiences, for better and more often recently for worse. And then of course the doctors on this forum. A good friend of mine on my street who I have mentioned on here before is an Army Captain in a MASH type unit who went from Hood to NYC in March. He lost hundreds of patients in just a few weeks.

Those are the people who we should be listening too. They are who I listen too. And they tell me to wear a mask so I do.

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That is probably damn near the best and most well thought out post I've seen here on this board not from a physician in quite some time. Blue star for you.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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Biggest difference between the masks and seatbelt analogy is that seatbelts have a direct causal effect on YOUR personal safety.

The whole point of wearing anything less than an N95 mask is to hope you don't spread it to others. Imagine how much people would still be fighting seat belts if you wearing a seatbelt only helped improve the safety of someone in another car.

---

Okay, here's an analogy that affects others. I remember my parents telling me about the early days of WWII. People at first weren't really realizing what their actions did to others. Phrases like "loose lips sink ships" eventually took hold. However, in the very beginning, people living on the coasts would not turn out their lights at night. People in the spring even had campfires and barbecues on the beach - they didn't think giving up their fun was necessary or affected anyone else. The light was so significant, the German subs were sinking ships left and right because the backlight created magnificent silhouettes and the ships were sitting ducks. The British even told the US that coastal blackouts were needed but we lost many ships and lots of good men/sailors before people actually "got it."

You think that today, people would still even stop doing what they wanted? I can't say I'm convinced people would. We'd fight about that too.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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You think that today, people would still even stop doing what they wanted? I can't say I'm convinced people would. We'd fight about that too.

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People are worse about that today. No doubt.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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You think that today, people would still even stop doing what they wanted? I can't say I'm convinced people would. We'd fight about that too.

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Nope. They'd find some ahole on Youtube that presents some skewed analysis as to how keeping your light on couldn't possibly help the Germans ID ships and use that to justify keep on keepin on.

"But the Germans have night vision targeting anyway! There's no point in turning lights off!"

I mean, if we can't be stealthy enough to avoid some porch lights giving up our position, then we should just keep the ships in port anyway.

Bingo Bango Bongo said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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You think that today, people would still even stop doing what they wanted? I can't say I'm convinced people would. We'd fight about that too.

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Nope. They'd find some ahole on Youtube that presents some skewed analysis as to how keeping your light on couldn't possibly help the Germans ID ships and use that to justify keep on keepin on.

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The YouTube folks would say if you turned out the lights the ships would crash into the coast cause they couldn't see. Much more dangerous than a few nothing burger German subs.

Old RV Ag said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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Biggest difference between the masks and seatbelt analogy is that seatbelts have a direct causal effect on YOUR personal safety.

The whole point of wearing anything less than an N95 mask is to hope you don't spread it to others. Imagine how much people would still be fighting seat belts if you wearing a seatbelt only helped improve the safety of someone in another car.

---

Okay, here's an analogy that affects others. I remember my parents telling me about the early days of WWII. People at first weren't really realizing what their actions did to others. Phrases like "loose lips sink ships" eventually took hold. However, in the very beginning, people living on the coasts would not turn out their lights at night. People in the spring even had campfires and barbecues on the beach - they didn't think giving up their fun was necessary or affected anyone else. The light was so significant, the German subs were sinking ships left and right because the backlight created magnificent silhouettes and the ships were sitting ducks. The British even told the US that coastal blackouts were needed but we lost many ships and lots of good men/sailors before people actually "got it."

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I find it humorous that so many say that our rights are being taken away but forget all of the rights that were limited during WW2. Rationing is the closest thing to what we are dealing with today. What were the long term effects of those economic rights being limited? Not a damn thing.

Smokedraw01 said:

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Old RV Ag said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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Biggest difference between the masks and seatbelt analogy is that seatbelts have a direct causal effect on YOUR personal safety.

The whole point of wearing anything less than an N95 mask is to hope you don't spread it to others. Imagine how much people would still be fighting seat belts if you wearing a seatbelt only helped improve the safety of someone in another car.

---

Okay, here's an analogy that affects others. I remember my parents telling me about the early days of WWII. People at first weren't really realizing what their actions did to others. Phrases like "loose lips sink ships" eventually took hold. However, in the very beginning, people living on the coasts would not turn out their lights at night. People in the spring even had campfires and barbecues on the beach - they didn't think giving up their fun was necessary or affected anyone else. The light was so significant, the German subs were sinking ships left and right because the backlight created magnificent silhouettes and the ships were sitting ducks. The British even told the US that coastal blackouts were needed but we lost many ships and lots of good men/sailors before people actually "got it."

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I find it humorous that so many say that our rights are being taken away but forget all of the rights that were limited during WW2. Rationing is the closest thing to what we are dealing with today. What were the long term effects of those economic rights being limited? Not a damn thing.

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We would either straight up lose WWII if it was tomorrow or we just wouldn't get involved. 0% chance we'd manage to get this country united behind that cause.